Y2Jimmy0

QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 08:58 AM) i can respect what you are saying, but beside the money aspects.... i would go with one part of this, with a comparison to another team. last yr, the blackhawks traded for Vermette and the price was steep, a 1st rounder. but he provided a stabling force on another line and provided skills in some key games for another SC win. so in essence this was a trade of a 1rounder for a SC.... for me, a fair price to pay. with Cespy..... this was or is a 27.5 mil contract for a yr and an opt ..... and he would provide many things for the sox, including the unknown, the future and a rep of a org that will want to win. even who knows, maybe a chance to compete for a playoff berth, provide head to head media completion in chi again that 3 head monster from the northside and of the trickle down effect of fans coming to the part..... a lot of positives, that is what a key player can add or help to add with the other great players the sox have on the team already. Cespedes isn't a good enough player to warrant a deal like that. The White Sox set a price and didn't go past that. That's what smart organizations do. He also wanted to be in New York. People that are b****ing about not getting him would be b****ing about the contract had they signed him.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 08:41 AM) Yeah I don't want to give up anything of value for Blackmon or Dickerson. Idk I guess it depends. I agree. Doesn't make sense. The Dodgers are the team that I would call about an OF

Bruce Levine said this morning that the White Sox were in it until the $$ got crazy. He said they were never making Cespedes one of the highest paid OF's in the game. He said that expects something else because they need to finish the job. He's speculating about Colorado but that doesn't really make sense either.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 05:42 PM) Kyle Glaser ‏@KyleAGlaser 5m5 minutes ago #Padres DFA'd OF Rymer Liriano to make room on roster for Ramirez. Liriano, once a top prospect, hit .292, 14 HR, 64 RBI in AAA last year Worth a claim or trade? He had a really good year in AAA last year. Still only 24 years old.

Kyle Glaser ‏@KyleAGlaser 5m5 minutes ago #Padres DFA'd OF Rymer Liriano to make room on roster for Ramirez. Liriano, once a top prospect, hit .292, 14 HR, 64 RBI in AAA last year Worth a claim or trade?

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 09:09 AM) The bullpen has quietly been built into a pretty solid unit. I figured Albers was as good as gone after last year, good to see him back in the fold. Even if he regresses a bit, he should still be effective. For sure. They now have Robertson, Jones, Petricka, Putnam, Kahnle, and Albers. They also have Duke, Jennings, and Phillips as far as LHP. Aumont and Turner are wildcards in this as well as some minor league guys and guys that will be NRI's. Pretty deep bullpen.

QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 02:50 PM) Always enjoy the rock solid analysis in your posts, but seems to me that we're circling around the same point and might not be in disagreement at all. I'm in no way suggesting that "our" preferred terms includes three years for anyone, no matter what. We can all quibble about the baseball pros and cons of the talent targeted by RH and the Sox (and I think we've been less than adequate overall in targeting the right people), but it strikes me as silly to think that RH and company lack the intelligence to do his full-time job in a professional manner. Hahn is a Harvard educated attorney; listen to him for a minute and you realize he's a very bright individual. Despite the goofiness of media blurbs, does anyone think for a moment that the Sox would actually have a "three or no deal" policy, no matter what? You're right, if that were "our" policy, we'd be entirely out of synch with the rest of baseball. Instead, and what I was suggesting, was "we" value specific targets in specific ways. Stated differently, there might be "nice to haves" and then "must haves." It's perfectly reasonable to assume that in the opinion of those whose opinions matter for the organization (management -- not the fans and certainly not the media), management determined Cespedes to be a "nice to have." Get him on our terms and we'll take the known risks (obviously with the considerable upside potential too); however, no taking unnecessary risks (outside of our terms), no chasing. On a personal level, I think that getting any one of the big-three (not relevant now, but I preferred Gordon's skill set overall for this team, although I think Gordon was never truly on the market at all) actually a "must have" and the calculus changes to something dramatically different than the calculus for the nice to haves. Everyone can have their opinion, of course, but no way do the Sox have some rigid "three years or bust" policy. In fact, I'm convinced knowing their past, knowing the creativity of the management team, and knowing the near inside info I was told, they presented a three year deal with a host of asterisks -- an opt out and option years. That's what THEY thought Cespedes was worth. It doesn't matter that WE might have disagreed or done differently if we were holding down their jobs. Finally, the Sox did what it took to reel in Adam Dunn with a four year deal -- Dunn's best deal on that market. They considered him and his left-handed boom or bust approach a must have at the time (somehow I wasn't around when they called to ask my opinion, so they missed me telling them that I've always hated that style of slugger). Just last year, they bested the market and gave David Robertson a four year deal because they considered getting that "lock-down closer" a must have. They'll do what it takes when a guy achieves that "must have" status, but they'll let the "nice to haves" go if the price exceeds their internal assessment of value. That's a sound way to run any business that isn't simply a play-toy of a wealthy billionaire owner. I think a lot of the angst going on in this thread is simply some Sox fans valuing Cespedes more than Sox management does. Now, continually making the wrong choices is a good way for management to lose their job, but sticking to sound process is not. This is an excellent post

If they added Desmond and Jackson and kept Garcia and LaRoche, I think it'd look like this. vs RHP 1. Eaton LF/RF 2. Cabrera LF/RF 3. Abreu 1B 4. Frazier 3B 5. Desmond SS 6. LaRoche DH 7. Lawrie 2B 8. Avila C 9. Jackson CF vs LHP 1. Eaton LF/RF 2. Cabrera LF/Rf 3. Abreu 1B 4. Frazier 3B 5. Desmond SS 6. Lawrie 2B 7. Garcia DH 8. Novarro C 9. Jackson

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 12:40 PM) he also slid right back into the "Me vs the Front office and JR" role. Its really hard to listen to/read him without hearing his axe grinding Absolutely. He makes good, accurate points but they don't get taken seriously because he clearly has an axe to grind with management.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 12:21 PM) How's his accuracy been with his Bulls reporting? He's been very accurate but he's an asshole so people don't listen to him

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 08:53 AM) This is what I'm thinking. Hahn said that they were going to look at upgrading the outfield. They haven't don't anything up to now and supposedly are in for Cespedes but if they weren't fully going to go in why didn't do something else before hand. There were alot of second tier guys they could've gotten without picks attached and they didn't do anything and still don't seem to he moving on at this point. It's been way to quite on their part It seems like the White Sox were offering a short term deal of 3-4 years because that's what everyone else interested was doing as well. Cespedes probably figures that if there isn't big $$ to be had, then he'd rather just go back to the Mets. I don't think the Sox played this wrong. They just set a limit to as far as they'd go to sign Cespedes. He's a good player. He's not a great player. They were interested if the market came to them and I think it did. However, Cespedes would rather be in New York. If you think the White Sox should have offered him a $100 million contract and that they are cheap because they didn't, that's your prerogative. WhiteSoxLIfer: This isn't about you. Just in general.

I was hoping that the Sox would be interested in Austin Jackson. I'd also be okay with seeing what it'd take to get Ethier or Carlos Gomez. I'm not a fan of signing Fowler because I want to keep that draft pick but I'd live with it because the team would be better.

362 pages and 2 months of speculation for a guy that isn't even that good. I wanted Cespedes too. This whole thing is absurd though.

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 02:15 PM) Why would they ever think it would be less? 6 years is one thing but 4-5 years you do it, IMO. It was never realistic to expect him to take anything less than 4 at minimum. I think they probably thought that they could get him for 4 years. Nobody else was offering 5 years from what has been reported.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 02:12 PM) Having the extra pool money available is very valuable, though. We could use the money from our third pick on top of the second to sign someone who otherwise wouldn't have signed at slot value. I recall a recent article that detailed how the Astros were doing exactly this to acquire talent. It's very valuable Flash, I've explained this numerous times. Nobody cares.

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 02:11 PM) That whole waiting out the OF thing worked out pretty well for the Sox... Gordon back to KC, Upton to Det, etc. Can't say I'm surprised because this organization is a s*** show sometimes but still pretty disappointed. Not sure the Sox were ever guaranteeing 5 years though. I'm going to see what his contract looks like before I start speaking in absolutes about anything.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 02:06 PM) It's the 28th pick. There will be a great player available, but will the White Sox choose him? If you look at the actual 28th pick the last 7 years, there is one guy you wouldn't trade for Dexter Fowler, and that is Gerrit Cole who was selected with the 28th pick in 2008 by the Yankees. One problem, he didn't sign. The fact that the Sox would still have their normal draft intact makes giving up the draft pick no big deal to me, and it keep his suitors and therefore price tag a little lower. $70 million is plenty of justification. Would you trade Spencer Adams for him?

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 01:29 PM) I hope we don't sign him, either...... But only after we've expressed interest, are quoted as being among the finalist, and are outbid by another team. That way it'll be a clean sweep this season of losing out in our targets! They targeted Frazier and Lawrie and got both of them.....

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 01:00 PM) Are you driving Chris Sale to the airport? I would trade Chris Sale for Bryce Harper in a second

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 10:50 AM) Again, who has said more than 3 years has been offered by the Sox? Brian has said that the report is nonsense. His word has been good all offseason both privately and publicly. The White Sox want the 3 year thing out there but by no means is it an absolute. It's just regurgitated nonsense that people keep repeating because it's easier to fit the "White Sox are cheap" narrative instead of a negotiating tactic.

QUOTE (daggins @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 10:45 AM) By all accounts, that is the case. edit - well all national accts. Options to me means they don't want more than 3 guaranteed years. It's not the case. Don't people read? I mean f***ing seriously....

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 09:50 AM) I know it is just some dude, but i cant resist posting it here: https://twitter.com/chisox2727/status/690197432303484928 OMG CESPEDES IS IN TOWN!!!!!!!!

QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 09:38 AM) Bernstein has always been a Sox fan...he loved Calderon growing up, and they have a tape of him meeting Harry Caray in the Sox announcers booth back in the day. Mully, Goff, Bernstein, and Laurence Holmes are the Sox fans at The Score. Producer Chris Tannehill is as well. The Cubs are probably the NL favorites right now and 670 is their new flagship. The White Sox haven't made the playoffs since 2008. Why should the discussion on the station be any different? I love the White Sox but they haven't exactly earned any air time.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 08:45 AM) I really have the feeling the White Sox are the only serious bidders out there. I agree. I've had this feeling for awhile.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 08:16 AM) Signing Fowler also improves the team WAR. The catastrophe of not getting Cespedes is way overblown. He's clearly the better player, but there are other ways to win. There is probably an 8.7852%-15.464 % chacnce Fowler is actually better the next 3 years. And it sets the White Sox up a player for the big free agent class of 2018 if he would take 3 years. Jim Essian, Kirk McCaskill, Kevin Bell, Todd Cruz (wanna buy a watch), Tex Wortham. True. I don't think the White Sox want to give up that draft pick though. I would agree with them if true. Fowler isn't good enough to give up that pick for. He offers OBP and would be a nice fit in the 2 spot. He'd upgrade the team. Like it's been debated here though, I'd rather sign Austin Jackson for even cheaper and take the defensive value and chance at an offensive bounce back from a guy that won't have to play primarily at Safeco anymore.