Y2Jimmy0

QUOTE (fathom @ May 3, 2013 -> 09:31 PM) Non-Sox, but Appel is pitching on espnu right now. He looks fantastic. I don't think the Cubs pass on Appel. He could be up and in their rotation by mid season next year.

The Sox have no choice but to do the half and half rebuild/retool thing. I have seen good points on here though. I don't think they trade Rios or Peavy unless they are blown away by an offer. OTOH, some of the bullpen pieces should be shopped and dealt away (Crain, Thornton, Lindstrom). I would even trade Konerko if you could get something back in return. De Aza should be available and I would deal Ramirez for a good return as well. The surplus of pitching is nice as well as the intriguing starts by Erik Johnson and Chris Beck. If the Sox added McCann, Morales types in the offseason and made one big trade including one of the young pitchers (Quintana) with Beckham and more, they could compete next year. They would have a better offense and a rotation that includes Sale, Danks, Peavy, Santiago/Quintana, and hopefully Erik Johnson. It could work. I would be on board with the full blown rebuild but many would not be. It's probably not possible with this fanbase.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 5, 2013 -> 12:17 AM) http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,2019906.story Wonder if he becomes a superstar or the next Prior? Last time they took a PAC-10 pitcher in the first 2 picks...worked beautifully and then, well... You can't worry about that. I think if Appel is on the board, he should be the pick. He could be in the Cubs rotation as early as next season. I would not be surprised to see the Cubs with a rotation of David Price, Samardjiza, and Appel next season.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ May 5, 2013 -> 09:28 PM) Funny but this is when I miss ozzies candor. He would absolutely call out this terrible defense. And someone Ozzie "calling out" the terrible defense would make it better? I think not.

Now it's all a moot point because Santiago will most likely be taking Floyd's spot in the rotation for the rest of the season.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 1, 2013 -> 08:46 PM) If you're going to be awful, be good at being awful. If they aren't making the playoffs, much rather the Sox get a top 7-8 pick than in the 20 range. Fathom I completely agree with this. If my team can't make the playoffs I want to be bad enough to draft in the top 10 picks. This team also has a lot to sell off. Obviously, these things are tough with this team as others will soon point out. The White Sox will have like 10k fans per game if this happens.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 09:31 AM) Cry more. Not really sure what this means but alright.

It is embarrassing that people are even talking about this positively. Hawk is the laughingstock of MLB. The broadcast booth is widely regarded as the worst in baseball......and STEVE STONE is in it. Hawk made a fool of himself on Brian Kenny's show and people think that Hawk won the argument because he talked the most. I don't think Harrelson realizes that Rick Hahn is a sabermetrics guy. If the White Sox embrace this TWTW idea, it would be very disappointing. It doesn't make any sense. I have the will to win. The problem is that I suck and nobody would pay money to watch me play. This whole thing is really frustrating. They are major league players. They all want to win. The thought that they don't is absolutely ludicrous. Hawk is offending my baseball sensibilities. White Sox fans (me included) used to rip the Cubs for having Santo in the booth. We have our own caricature in the booth and he's not even being hidden as the analyst. He would be the color guy.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 12:53 PM) But you will sit through 60 win seasons and continue to buy tickets? If that is the case, you are the exception, not the rule. I don't buy tickets now though. The team is not interesting. I will go out a couple more times this year. I want to catch the Angels at least once, and get some food at the park. I will get UD tix on stub hub. I would go out and watch a building team of youngsters instead of what is currently constructed but i am definitely the exception.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 12:40 AM) The problem is that's like hating Keppinger or Gillaspie, Jordan Danks or D-Wise, or even Tyler Flowers. They're not responsible for this situation. Dunn is the one earning $15 or $16 million, which is keeping this franchise stuck in neutral while the rest of the teams are moving forward (CLE, MINN, KC). Without Dunn and John Danks producing positive results, it's going to be nearly impossible to overcome just those two contracts in the short-term. How is it Dunn's fault that he makes $15 million/year? Was he supposed to say "Oh. Well that offer is generous but I expect to be bad when on your team and because of it will sign for much less". You can not like Dunn all you want but him making what he makes shouldn't be held against him. He didn't sign himself to that contract.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 17, 2013 -> 04:33 PM) This is an opinion, thus it is not the correct sentiment to hold. Name one thing, ANYTHING, about a baseball player that you want to know and I can, with little doubt in my mind, find both: 1) a number that is derived from that quality 2) find a number rooted in sabermetrics that better defines that original number The biggest area of debate at this point is amongst fielding numbers, but no matter what you want to use - fielding percentage, errors, defensive runs save, ultimate zone rating, or fan evalutions - we are trying to come up with some sort of way to come up to generally accepted opinions about a players defensive skill sets. Numbers without context mean nothing, but numbers with context mean everything. The real problem is that Hawk among others are ignorant about it. Open a God Damn book. Do some research instead of just spouting off. Hawk thinks that when you involve numbers and computers it gets guys thinking too much and they fail. Now, if a hitter entered the batters box worried about his BABIP, OPS+, and other things instead of worrying about that specific at bat, he would probably fail. Hawk is right about that. BUT WHY WOULD ANY MAJOR LEAGUE HITTER DO THAT? Nobody does that. The players play. Managers manage. But for fans, front office people, and media members those quantifiable numbers are a very effective tool to measure a baseball player. Guys like Hawk and Joe Morgan specifically still are so lazy and ignorant when it comes to this stuff that they still believe that Billy Beane and not Michael Lewis wrote the book Moneyball. Just unbelievable actually.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Apr 19, 2013 -> 10:16 AM) Its hard to pin this on management. When they got Dunn, they let him do what he always did, and it was an epic failure. At that point, they had no choice but to tinker I agree with your point but if he isn't going to take walks he can't be on the roster. That was the balancing act. Taking the homers and walks in exchange for a ton of strikeouts. As bad as Dunn was last year he still made the 4th fewest outs on the team.

Smart move. They will sell more tickets to the makeup date than they would have tonight.

How much of these recent struggles have to do with management though? They wanted his approach changed to the point that now he isn't even taking walks. They want him more aggressive early in counts but that has never been what Dunn does. He works counts and hits mistakes a long way. He strikes out a s***load of times and his .obp the last 3 years has really stretched the acceptable levels of a true 3 outcome player. But Dunn has always hit 40 homers and walked over 100 times. That kind of production is very important. I just think changing his approach could correlate negatively with how many walks he takes if he is swinging earlier in counts. His White Sox career has not been too good but I find it funny that there are people who hated his game even when he was in Cincinnati. He was a monster. An awesome offensive force. That is what the White Sox paid for. They haven't gotten it but I completely understand and was jumping around like a schoolgirl the day he was signed.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Apr 15, 2013 -> 11:03 AM) <!--quoteo(post=2783780:date=Apr 15, 2013 -> 09:52 AM:name=Jake)-->QUOTE (Jake @ Apr 15, 2013 -> 09:52 AM) <!--quotec-->I'm not going to get caught up in sample sizes. LOL Now, that was prior to the weekend, but it still applies. Just curious, what is Dunn's .obp as a member of the White Sox? Batting Average is not an accurate measure of Dunn's success. Now, the .obp is bad as well but that's the number that should be used.

QUOTE (Joxer_Daly @ Apr 4, 2013 -> 06:18 AM) Brilliant! Looking forward to this again later, although feeling the least confident out of the three games. How do people think Floyd will fair out tonight? Well it's usually hit or miss with Gavin but he often struggles out of the gate. Guthrie has been tough on the Sox. We shall see.

QUOTE (Jake @ Apr 1, 2013 -> 10:53 PM) Any Mad Men fans? I love Mad Men. Can't wait until Sunday.

I know that Gimenez has looked pretty decent this spring and should fine in a backup role. However, does anyone think the Sox will have or should have interest in Rod Barajas or Ramon Hernandez who both will be released in the coming days?

The same coach (Lovie Smith) that Urlacher never wanted fired is solely responsible for him being let go. The only ass that Lovie Smith ever cared about was his own and week 17 vs Minnesota in 2011-2012 season is proof of that. Urlacher played in a meaningless football game and got injured. He still had 3-4 good years left. The injury destroyed his season last year and this is his fate now. Urlacher is one of my all time favorite Bears but he is acting like a big idiot right now. If it is true that Brian is still bitter over Lovie Smith being fired then I can't blame the new coaching staff for not wanting him in the locker room.

Higher .OPS between Pierzynski and Flowers. I'll take Tyler.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 12, 2013 -> 03:06 PM) The Orioles were a big market team that had a huge level of attendance at the start of their rebuild (a long, long time ago). So was Cleveland. They had a sell out streak of something like five years. How'd that all work out? I agree but it was because of personnel moves. The Orioles and Indians both got rid of household names that the fans loved. Cleveland inherited a ton of talent with those deals and almost went to World Series because of it. Baltimore has one of the worst owners in the game. They drafted horribly and didn't spend in FA. Your points are well taken. The Cubs have not been trading away household names and fan favorites because there weren't any. They depended on free agency for so long. If the Cubs end up in a 10 year rut of minimal playoff appearances and bad records like Cleveland and Baltimore then it will be just another case in which it happened. I think they will have talent though. If Cleveland or Baltimore would have made better decisions and somehow competed, the fans would have been right back in the seats. This year should be telling for Cleveland. They are better. They made free agent additions. They may still be 4th in the division but they went out and signed players. Players also did not want to sign with the Orioles. They still don't. Players will always want to come to Chicago.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 02:59 PM) That's an organization to be proud of. They can't even sell wait til next year anymore. Honestly I think this is doomed to fail, but more because of the rule changes and ballpark factors than anything else. Theo can't exploit the draft and Latin America like he used to. He also has an owner that is paying a huge debt payment for his purchase of this team, so he isn't going to be able to spend like they used to. It is also a massive leap of faith to assume that these guys are going to pan out. We see KC and Pittsburgh draft high and get praised for their farm system year after year... how has that worked out for them? A full rebuilding is by far the riskiest way to build a title winner. Anytime it is suggested, I offer up this question. How many teams have undergone a full out teardown and rebuild, and been successful in a relative short (even say five year) cycle? Even the Tampa Bay's of the world took way longer to get back. Same with the Orioles. Way more often it fails, just because so many low percentage variables have to work out, and work out at the same time period. Baseball is a funny game like that. I agree with a lot of this actually. It hasn't worked. It hasn't worked for teams that can't spend on top of it. The Cubs are trying to build a system the right way and they will have the funds to supplement with talent in free agency. That is the luxury that those other teams didn't have. Those teams didn't have the luxury of signing two starting pitchers, or a starting RF for big money, or a closer. The thought process is that they will be able to do that. There is no point in doing that now though. If you were a Cub fan, would you rather have them try to build a farm system and try to win right now? They would end up winning 80+ games and not having picks as good or dumping off veteran deals to supplement the system. Makes zero sense doing it that way. Especially when that Wrigley is full.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 02:05 PM) Where do they get this ability to have this payroll larger than any other team in the division? Yes they have a large fanbase that will sell out the park, but they also don't have the high-priced amenities (luxury boxes, ad space) that other teams enjoy. Furthermore, they're locked into the same TV deal as the White Sox; it gets renegotiated in 2019, they're not going to have Dodgers money coming any time soon. They'll get an extra $25 million from the national TV deal, but so will every team. The WGN contract is up before that though. They don't need Dodgers money. They are still a big market club. The biggest market club in the division. When the Rays, Royals and whoever else attempted to rebuild, there wasn't the ability to supplement with marginal to high priced free agents on top of it. This was the only way for them to approach this. It may not work. I think it will but it may not. There is no reason for that team to try and finish .500 and rebuild at the same time. Why would anyone do that? Part of the rebuilding is trying to secure really high picks and hoping that you draft the right players. They will have a good system and outspend STL, MIL, CIN, and PIT. You guys could be right though. Maybe it doesn't work. It is the right plan though.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 12:39 PM) This has to be the most comical statement I've seen on this site yet. So having 4 top 100 prospects, several which are 2-3 years away, will guarantee them favorite status in the NL Central in 2-3 years. This despite you already acknowledging they have almost no pitching in their system. How does that make any sense to you? Also, can we please stop pretending systems automatically lead to major league success. It's getting really tiring to bring this up, but look at the Royals for god's sake. They've had monster systems in the past few years and yet they haven't been able to win at all. I get the Cubs have a big financial edge over them, but money isn't going to be enough to build a consistent winner. At some point they'll need their prospects to turn into major league contributors and I'm still skeptical of these four guys who are ranked so highly because of their tools and not their production. With the system that they are building and the ability to have a payroll north of $150 million annually, yes they better get to a position in which they are the favorites to win that division every season. Do you think they are going to stop adding players? They will also have high pick at the top of each round next year again. Most people on this board hate the Cubs because they are on the other side of town, or blue, or their parents told them they should a long time ago. That doesn't matter. I am trying to look at this objectively. I think Theo and Jed are smart guys. I am not going to dismiss them just because they are running the Cubs and for some reason that makes them destined to fail. Doesn't make any sense. I think in 2015 they are contending.

Why are you guys arguing Cubs vs White Sox? Who the f*** cares? Now I will argue White Sox vs Royals, Twins, Indians, or Tigers any day. Cubs vs White Sox is stupid and does not matter. You guys have all made valid points though. Even though the Sox farm system has supplemented the ML roster with relievers, 1st round picks moving quickly through the system, and backup infielder types, it is still a terrible system that is getting much better. The Sox have some young pitching with #3 starter type upside. They also have numerous OF's that will be on the radar in the next few years. Courtney Hawkins is the best position player the Sox have had in their system in a long time. He was on numerous Top 100 lists and will most likely start the year at High A Winston-Salem as an 18 year old. OTOH, what the Cubs are doing is smart. They have 3-4 prospects that look like they can be studs. They also have absolutely no young starting pitchers in the minors as of yet. I am sure Garza, Marmol, etc will be turned into young pitching. I do believe with Theo and Jed Hoyer running things the correct way, that Cubs fans should be very excited. Hell, I will be out to Kane County to checkout Almora and Vogelbach myself. Barring a huge change in thinking, the Cubs should get to a spot within the next 2-3 years where they should be favored to win that division on a consistent basis. But still that doesn't affect what Rick Hahn will do on the southside. hammerhead, how does looking at 1 source's top 100 list tell you that Hawkins is not any good? Did you checkout the other Top 100 lists in which he was included? I enjoy this site very much but sometimes it just gets downright comical.