Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 12:40 PM) The Sox played .574 ball against the bottom 3 teams in the division. I don't see them playing that well against them this year. The Tigers had the exact same record against those three teams, so what's your point? Looks like you're just cherry-picking stats in your never-ending quest to prove the Sox suck.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jan 18, 2013 -> 08:41 PM) The hate is becoming so rabid that I'm feeling more and more for Manti. He's an amateur athlete, a Mormon kid, I'm going to stick with his story until I see better evidence. I don't blame him for sticking with the story after he became pretty sure something strange was going on. You have to go to the grave with that story until Deadspin or somebody comes out with the hoax. If he was hoaxed, all those formative experiences with teammates surrounding her "death" are still real. He was still devastated and his team/family still had to help him pull through. There are lots of questions to be answered, but I don't like jumping on a person who only has vague, circumstantial evidence surrounding him and is the ONLY person who has the potential to be victimized. If Te'o is not a victim, then nobody is. I hate ND, but I don't automatically hate this kid. I need more than him being dumb and not strong enough to explain to the media that he had an online only girlfriend that turned out to be a fake person. Anyway, back to reading and waiting for more facts and testimony to come out. This isn't about Notre Dame, this about a person who capitalized off a fake trauma for attention. There are people out there who will never have a serious relationship their whole life, there are people who will lose a loved to illness or tragedy, and there are people who will overcome terrible events in their lives and still find a way to accomplish great things. Manti Ta'o is a fraud and an insult to people who face real pain and suffering in this world. None of us may know the whole truth behind what happened, but it is clear as f*** that this kid played up the lie to build up his legacy. Regardless of what football team he plays for that's f***ed up and he deserves no sympathy.

QUOTE (zenryan @ Jan 18, 2013 -> 05:45 PM) I could buy this if this was 1999. But to have a 4 year relationship and not get a real time pic, webcam, face time,skype,etc isnt being naive or dumb. If and when Te'o speaks, the media better ask him about how he never sought different ways to actually see her through those avenues. Agree completely. This isn't the AIM days, he's already said she had an iPad that she wrote those letters on. She could have easily face-timed Manti, not one f***ing excuse not to. There are so many questionable elements to what is already a questionable online relationship that I can't believe anyone could think he's innocent here. Manti is hiding something significant, because as I mentioned before, he claims to have proof of the con or should at least be able to attain some if his story is true (like his AT&T bill), yet he's still hiding from the press as we speak. Innocent people don't hide from accusations.

And let's be honest, dude didn't visit his girl in the hospital or attend her fake funeral, which is proof in my book that he knew a long, long time ago, before these events took place in his fictional timeline that he was being conned. And IMO, it makes me seriously think he was involved all along, especially when he says things to the media like his girl's breathing picked up while in a coma when she heard his voice over the phone. That's proof right there that Manti was playing us all. How can some people not see this?

QUOTE (kev211 @ Jan 18, 2013 -> 05:04 PM) Yes because of your anti Notre Dame stances. There's not a single piece of evidence that points to Teo being a part of this. There's also not a single piece of evidence that this is a giant Notre Dame coverup. Look at the facts and just accept that Teo was incredibly naive and stupid. But keep thinking this is a giant ND coverup if it makes you sleep better at night. Please share with us all the facts that prove Manti's innocence. I'd love to hear them all. IMO, every single piece of info that has come out since the original story makes me think Manti was involved from the beginning or at least very early on.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 18, 2013 -> 04:40 PM) I just wish that I could fast forward to 2 weeks from now when the actual facts come out. Ive done my speculating, now I just want to know if I was right or wrong. (edit) Dont be so sure that girl wasnt involved. According to this article: http://www.lostlettermen.com/manti-teo-diane-omeara/ She was HS friends with that Ronaiah Tuiasosopo. And according to the article Fathom posted, she didnt come to work today and hasnt been answering phone calls. If that girl was involved and sent the photo to Te'o with a time stamp on it, then Te'o would have all the evidence he would need to clear name and it would be clear he was actually conned. Given the negative outcry over this, there is no reason for T'eo not to come out immedietely and present proof be was conned if has it. However, him waiting to have a face to face with the media makes it look like he's trying to get his ducks in a row.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 18, 2013 -> 04:27 PM) http://www.staradvertiser.com/sports/break...ml?id=187505701 I'm so sick of this story So the fake girlfriend who never existed sent a photo of herself with a time stamp on December 6th, yet if Deadspin is to be believed the girl whose picture was used for the twitter account had nothing to do with the scam. Therefore, this is the most pathetic attempt of a coverup I have ever seen in my life.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 18, 2013 -> 10:50 AM) After listening to Trestman yesterday and doing research on all the new coaching changes, I changed my mind. The Bears mgmt said money wouldn't be a issue when it comes to the new coach and then they hire a guy on the bottom of the list. Please stop saying money was an issue with the hire. Lovie was one of the highest paid coaches in the NFL. The Bears are clearly willing to spend money, it just so happens the guy he liked was a 1st time NFL coach and he will get paid as such. There's nothing wrong with that. Also, I think it's clear Emery didn't like the experienced coaches that were out there for whatever reason, some because they'd want too much power and could be a threat to undermine him eventually (given that he's a new GM). I think he'd be pretty stupid to hire a guy who like Cowher, who if unhappy could possibly create a power struggle down the road.

I don't see how anyone could honestly think he was just catfished. Even if he was somehow duped originally, he's been lying about it for a long ass time. I'm going with the Manti is gay theory, that the online girlfriend was used for cover from teammates, but it was actually his boyfriend all along (we already know Tuiasosopo was running the twitter acount). Then something happened to their relationship and for some reason they or Tuiasosopo decided to kill the online persona off. Now Manti is committed to this lie or risk being outed prior to the NFL draft. There is at least some logic to this theory. I can't even begin to comprehend why he wouldn't have come out with the truth already if he was simply catfished by Tuiasosopo or some people.

And this isn't about whether or not he will completely fall apart, it's about the fact that they'll be paying Prince $24 million a season for several years when he's outside of his prime. To think he'll be anywhere close to the same player he is now, when he's 34, 35, & 36 seems crazy to me. I get why the Tigers signed him, but these 9 & 10 year contracts are going to end badly. Just look at the Arod deal. I'm sure the Tigers know there will be repercussions down the road for immediate benefit Prince provides.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 14, 2013 -> 11:19 PM) Nope, they've spent a lot more unwisely over the last decade than the White Sox. However, having Verlander, Scherzer, Cabrera, Austin Jackson and now Fielder cancels out a majority of the stupid financial decisions they've made.... Fielder will quickly turn into a stupid financial decision.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 14, 2013 -> 05:10 PM) I'm not mad at all. In my opinion, it shows that it's small risk/small reward outfit. The value of the asset has gone up 2900% If the Sox decided to take a $60-70M loss over some future three year period my guess is as a worse case scenario they'd make it up in franchise value. One of the reasons that isn't going to happen is because Chairman Reinsdorf has always been at the forefront of holding the line on player salaries. Franchise value cash flow, you don't seem to get this. The Sox owners don't want to finance their losses by selling their stakes in the team.

Also, let's clarify how Forbes describes "Operating Income": To claim the Sox made $175 million is definitely not true. And quite frankly, no one here knows enough about their capital structure, their financing needs, and their tax status to say how much net income the sox made with any level of certainty.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 14, 2013 -> 04:42 PM) The point is the White Sox can easily afford a higher payroll than they claim. How many other teams could we say this about? Probably almost all of them. Are you mad that businessmen want some immediete return on their investment? I get it, we'd all love an owner that spends beyond the organization's means, but that is the exception not the rule. At the end of the day, the Sox are a business and are going to be run like one to some extent. If you don't like ownership's business model and corresponding product, then simply stop supporting it.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 14, 2013 -> 04:33 PM) The Sox have very little debt to no debt. I don't know what they would "put the money back in" for (where does it show?). My guess is they take it as a dividend. What about the millions in player salaries? They may not be your typical liability, but they are guaranteed contracts and ultimately a claim against their assets. Having some cash and/or other liquid assets on hand is a good way to protect themselves in case your revenue structure changes.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jan 14, 2013 -> 04:22 PM) If they choose to put the money back in, then what are you b****ing about? Yeah, I don't even get Marty's point anymore. This is starting to sound like a baseless grudge against Reinsdorf.

I agree with you Balta, but the offense did play a role in our failures down the stretch. We went from one of the best teams with RISP to one of the worst. Even if you say it was regression to the mean, it demonstrates the streakiness of our offense, which is a real problem for us. We tend to score runs in big clusters and then have extended stretches with minimal production. So while we were 7th in baseball in total runs, we're not scoring them in a very efficient manner. Also, when the offense goes cold for a long stretch, it puts a lot of pressure on the pitching staff, which is never a good thing.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 14, 2013 -> 11:50 AM) It depends on what your expectations are for this team. I think 77 wins is a reasonable expectation. I posted an article where Scott Boras gave a pretty good argument that team's should be at their historical high for payroll given that revenues are up 200% since 2000 and franchise values have skyrocketed. No reason to believe the Sox couldn't add $25M to their payroll with ease. How many teams are actually up 200% or anywhere close that number though? I'd be willing to guess that number is highly skewed by some major TV deals for a couple premier franchises.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 12:29 PM) Are you saying longterm? Current ownership is very conservative, small risk/small reward type. I believe the Sox are a sleeping giant that a new owner with fresh ideas and who builds a team that has "sustained success", would put 32-33,000 in the seats every night. What exactly do you think ownership does other than approve financial-related decisions and choose a GM? The vision of the organization is up to the GM and now the team president and I definitely wouldn't use conservative to describe KW. In fact, KW was probably the most aggressive GM in baseball during his tenure. Now we're going with a more stats-oriented GM, who should have plenty of fresh ideas. So what it all comes down to is that you're pissed Reinsdorf runs his business like a business and doesn't spend more than he makes. I don't know what to tell you, but if that's your beef then maybe sports shouldn't be your hobby. You'll be waiting a long time if you expect Reinsdorf to not only sell the team, but to also sell to a Mark Cuban like owner who will run the team like an expensive little toy.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 12:57 PM) It seems to me that taking an OC position in the NFL would be a more logical step than a HC? I think it's pretty clear that Trestman wanted to become an NFL head coach and felt that some HC experience, regardless of type, would help him get there. I guess I don't see why people are so confused about this. We see guys in baseball become minor league managers rather than be major league assistants, because they feel it's the best way to prove they have the skills to be a successful major leave manager. You can question why he chose the CFL over the NCAA, but I think he simply went the CFL route because the opportunity presented itself first. Regardless, he's been both a successful CFL head coach and NFL coordinator. If anything, he should have an edge over other coordinator candidates because he's shown he can actually run a team. I'm not saying Trestman should be the choice, but if Emery ends up going with him, I definitely wouldn't be upset.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 01:18 AM) Just wanna put my Justin Upton idea here in Pale Hose Talk for those who dont wander in to the Diamond Club...I think its pretty genius and I want it to be seen by the masses =p In reference to Upton using his NTC for a deal with the M's... Discuss here. You think we're getting the 29th ranked propsect in baseball plus more for Rios? I think Rios has value and could probably get you one good prospect (low top 100 maybe) right now, but there are still red flags with him and teams won't give up a ton until he proves 2012 wasn't a fluke. If he does that, then we should be able to get more for him, but a top 30 prospect still seems extremely unlikely IMO.

I can understand people blaming the GM, the manager, and/or the players for our failures in recent years, but the owner? Really?? I'll admit Reinsdorf shouldn't have let the Guillen-KW fued last as long as it did and obviously his inability to go over-slot in the draft hurt us (which is no longer an issue), but other than those two things he's been perfectly fine as an owner. It's not like we're talking about Loria or Angelos here.

Do people realize that spending on the draft and international amateur free agents is capped now? The ability to complete a legitimate rebuild is significantly limited now, because teams can no longer take resources for the major league team and use them in these areas. All the examples I've read on this site of successfully rebuilding are the result of spending big money on the draft and Latin America. If you can no longer outspend your competition and stockpile a ton of high-end talent during a given draft or signing period, then you'll struggle to build an elite system in a short amount of time. High draft picks alone simply won't cut it. This is baseball, not the NBA. Let's be real here, a true rebuild would take us 4-5 years minimum given the shape our current system (BA ranks us 29th). And that's the best case scenario, just look at the Royals & Pirates if you want to see two examples of rebuilding gone wrong, and those teams were able to abuse the old system. Imagine how bad it can with capped spending now.

If Paulie is not brought back for 2014, then I think you move Dunn to 1B and consider going with a rotating DH. I think there is nothing wrong with having four solid outfielders split time at DH if you have the right personal. For example, keep our existing outfield and throw Trayce Thompson (assuming he develops) in the mix, who should be able to play all three positions.

This website is so comical. Almost everyone here wrote off 2012 before the season even started, then the team went out and was in 1st place for most of the season. Yes, they fell short in the end, finishing 3 games behind the Tigers despite a higher run differential (5th in AL). The primary reasons for the collapse IMO was a tired rotation, a lack of clutch hitting down the stretch, and some rookie mistakes by Robin, three areas we can possibly improve in 2013. Obviously the Tigers have improved and should be the favorites. We probably need some things to go right for us or some things to go wrong for them to win the division. Considering the age of two of their big additions (Hunter & Martinez) and the innings their pitching staff logged last year, I think there is some reason for optimism of that front. Also, we can always win one of the wild-card spots. Baltimore did last year with a +5 run differential. To write off the 2013 White Sox at this point just seems so damn foolish to me. We all wish Hahn would go out and make an impact move, but we have more than enough talent to win the division.