Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 06:37 PM) If that is a plus about him or here.. I don't want him. There should be pressure to win every year.. ZERO tolerance for Failure. Define failure? Not making the playoffs? In the AL East, you can win 90 games and still not make the playoffs. If Martinez were to do something similar two years in a row, he'd probably be out of a job there. If you don't think job security comes into play with these decisions you are sadly mistaken. Also, if there was zero tolerance for failure, then Ozzie should have been fired years ago. I've never seen a Chicago team underachieve quite like the Sox have post 2005. Obviously you don't hold Ozzie to the same standards.

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 06:37 PM) If that is a plus about him or here.. I don't want him. There should be pressure to win every year.. ZERO tolerance for Failure. Define failure? Not making the playoffs? In the AL East, you can win 90 games and still not make the playoffs. If Martinez were to do something similar two years in a row, he'd probably be out of a job there. If you don't think job security comes into play with these decisions you are sadly mistaken. Also, if there was zero tolerance for failure, then Ozzie should have been fired years ago. I've never seen a Chicago team underachieve quite like the Sox have post 2005. Obviously you don't hold Ozzie to the same standards.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 06:22 PM) Money will be the issue. If the Red Sox want him I don't see the Sox outbidding them. I don't think they need to. I think he'd take less from the White Sox. Also, the Red Sox need to settle their GM situation before they can hire a new manager. Do you really think he's going to pass on a offer from us while he waits to see if the Red Sox have interest? An offer could come very quickly from us and we aren't going him an unlimited amount of time to decide. Furthermore, I'm not entirely convinced he'd be willing to join a divisional rival. It's probably not an issue, but it could possibly break a tie if other factors are even.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 05:57 PM) Martinez also has a son attending Northwestern I believe. That's also true...think he plays on one of their sports' teams too. Probably would be nice to watch some of his son's games.

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 05:08 PM) I still think it is Alomar, I think Dave Martinez goes to Boston. Alomar needs some seasoning, and I don't see any other team offering him a gig. Martinez, price tag if the Red Sox get in the mix might be too high, for letting the kids play. Factors that you and others are overlooking: 1) Martinez's wife is from Chicago. 2) White Sox organization is extremely loyal and Martinez is familiar with it. 3) Knows Kenny Williams well from his playing days with the Expos, most likely wouldn't know his potential boss with the Cub or Red Sox quite as well. 4) Less pressure to win immediately with White Sox than with Red Sox and probably Cubs, which could be a nice perk for a first-time manager. 5) Position should be available quickly and before others. There's more than money at play and the Sox can offer things other teams can't.

QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Oct 1, 2011 -> 09:42 AM) I'd decline option on Frasor and offer him and Buehrle arbitration. Frasor didn't impress me much the time he was here but I don't think he hurts us at all if he accepts and if not draft picks. Unfortunately, if we need to cut significant payroll, then Frasor is a luxury we can't afford. If he were to accept an arbitration offer, are there any restrictions on quickly you can move him afterwards?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 08:46 PM) Longoria is on a similar deal. Santos was one year away from arbitration, while Longoria was three. Regardless, the Longoria deal was the definition of steal, so if that is the most comparable then the Santos deal continues to look amazing.

Yeah, I'm not 100% sure how I feel about LaRussa, but these guys would probably be the four guys I'd want to interview if I was KW. Two experienced, expensive guys with great track records and two of the more promising managing prospects in the game. No matter what direction we end up going, I'm confident one of these guys would be the right man for the job.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 08:23 PM) Because Sergio Santos could get hurt tomorrow and retire with $8 million. Agreeing to three option years and foregoing two years of free agency seems a bit extreme for only $8 million in guaranteed money. Can you even think of a comparable deal? IMO, Hahn absolutely raped Santos' agent with this deal.

Why any player would accept a deal with three team options blows my mind. I love this deal for us.

QUOTE (thedoctor @ Sep 30, 2011 -> 04:39 PM) there has been some discussion that duncan will be done with baseball after this year. his wife is very ill. that said, i don't see larussa coming here. no special insight on that, just an opinion. Rogers was actually speculating that Duncan could join LaRussa as our bench coach.

Sounds like Martinez is probably on KW's short list. During his interview earlier today, KW said that it would take longer than a week to hire a new manager and alluded there may be a candidate on a potential playoff team that could delay his decision. Seems like Martinez is most likely that guy and I couldn't be happier. Honestly though, I'd be fine with Martinez or Alomar as our next manager. I also wouldn't mind Laker as our hitting coach and McEwing as our 3rd base coach, though I'm cool with whomever our new manager picks. I would love at least one coach to be hired from outside the organization and preferably that be our bench coach. I can't think of a name right now, but someone with past coaching experience would be nice.

Sounds like a 4 year extension for Cooper per the Score.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 3, 2011 -> 08:48 AM) I truly am getting tired of Reinsdorf sticking his nose in there so much. It seems like Williams has no power whatsoever. He is the General Manager. Let him make the decisions or just have JR become the GM himself. Well Kenny is as good as gone. If he doesn't even have the power to fire the hitting coach, despite numerous players performing well below expectations, then he's in a lot of trouble. Also, this pretty much cements the theory that KW can not fire Ozzie, but I think most of already came to that conclusion.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 2, 2011 -> 04:39 PM) Great post. The bottom line is some people can't handle people who don't agree with them. That's fine with me. Ptatc had a good take on Oz IMO. Yes Ozzie is going to win big the rest of his career. Unfortunately it appears it won't be with the Sox. Dave Martinez lovers will find plenty to criticize once we are 30 or so games into the season. LaRussa ... we all know there will be plenty to criticize there. My guess is when you match up Ozzie with whomever replaces him ... Ozzie will have the better resume and the better future. Other than one year, Ozzie can't even win big here with more expensive and talented rosters than his divisional rivals most years. Since 2005, his teams have regularly underperformed. Why is he going to suddenly win big in Florida? I think being in the NL will help some, but he's going to make the same mistakes he's made here both off and on the field. The Marlins will have even less patience with him and once they let him go, that very well may be the end of his career as a MLB manager. What is it about this guy that has you completely blinded?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 2, 2011 -> 08:46 AM) Which means he is going to be one of your back ups. And lets face it, he is faster, runs the bases better, and is a much better defender that Milledge. Rios offers nothing offensively. There's nothing wrong with having Milledge around in the event we need a RH pinch hitter. And to be honest, I don't like Rios being used as a defensive replacement, at least not this year. Not only has his effort been terrible, but he just seems clueless out there as of late. With September callups, I'd most likely give him and Dunn permanent spots on the bench. Speaking of which, if the Sox somehow pull off a miracle and make the playoffs, does Dunn even make the roster? I think you'd have to be crazy to include him on there at this point. The question is would KW/Ozzie be willing to add more embarrassment to his already sensitive state.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 11:01 PM) Hopefully 20 more years. The guy speaks the truth and people blast him. Some of you won't be happy until we get a grumpy ol manager like Ned Yost who won't say anything except "we take them one game at a time." Then you'll all be happy I guess. I applaud anything negative Ozzie has to say about these losers. You think talk means anything to these millionaires? They just go out and play every day. This Sox team doesn't deserve any long Ozzie speech about how we are still in the race, we can beat Detroit, blah blah. I love his colorful comments. They are way better than the cliches the rest of the managers spout daily. Detroit is not going to be any more fired up against us because of anything the Sox say. If the Sox hit home runs and pitch well they will win. If they do not hit home runs they will lose. And some of you really are gonna be mad cause look for Flowers to sit soon and look for DeAza to be sitting as well. How can you applaud Ozzie for criticizing these "losers" yet you don't mind him batting the biggest loser of all in the cleanup spot during the most important stretch of the season? As usual, Ozzie says some big words but does s*** to back them up. I'm honestly convinced you don't care about winning as long as Ozzie provides you with some amusing "quotes".

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 01:10 PM) You mean like when KW hired Ozzie? Because that's what happened. So you honestly believe that KW has or had the authority to fire Ozzie and hasn't done so already? I think it's clear that Reinsdorf is not letting his GM have full control of a decision that should rightfully be his. Maybe money is the driving factor here, but I have no doubt in my mind that KW would hire a new manager if he could. Unfortunately, we now have to deal with his and Ozzie's bulls*** until Reinsdorf lets one or both of them go. That's not way it should work, and if KW had a power that most GMs have, we probably wouldn't be dealing with nonsense right now. So if you want force a veteran manager who also happens to be one of Reinsdorf's buddies on a rookie GM, then I hope you're willing to accept another manager having more influence in the organization than he should really have.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 12:53 PM) I think it is probable both will be back. So you think we're going to win the World Series?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 12:44 PM) No reason to believe Hahn would not want LaRussa. If Hahn wants LaRussa that's fine, but Reinsdorf should not force his hand. Especially when we're talking about a rookie GM and veteran manager. That just has trouble written all over it.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 12:23 PM) I would love to see Dave Martinez as our new MGR. I do believe that Ozzie will be traded to Fla in the off season I hope both of these happen. Also, as long as our next manager is aware of splits and can actually understand what they mean, I'll be somewhat happy. I just can't believe in this era of information that there are managers who openly acknowledge they don't use statistics to help make decisions.

For the love of god, let our next GM pick his own manager. If Reinsdorf hires LaRussa and promotes Hahn, then there's a high probability of organizational dysfunction in the near future. After all the KW/Ozzie bulls***, isn't this something we'd like to avoid? Also, what's the odds that Hahn gets the GM job if KW is let go. I'd have to think 90% or so. I just don't see Reinsdorf looking outside the organization, unless he feels that Hahn is partly responsible for this mess and wouldn't bring enough change from KW.

Let's be honest, there are only three reasons people still like Ozzie at this point: 1) He's a proven winner by winning the World Series in 2005 2) He's very entertaining and says many silly/funny things 3) He keeps the clubhouse loose by putting the attention on himself Unfortunately, #2 has nothing to with winning and is a terrible reason to keep him as manager, yet people like greg deem it important. #1 is no longer relevant, since Ozzie's team have underperformed since 2005 and his arrogance has grown exponentially, which has resulted in some terrible tactical decisions just so he can put his stamp on the game. Even #3 no longer seems to be the case, whether it be his public fights with KW, his son airing the clubhouse's dirty laundry, or him demanding an extension during the final stretch of the season while being six games, his act has grown tiresome for the fans and I'd have to guess the players feel the same way. Plain and simple, Ozzie is a TERRIBLE manger and needs to go. Thanks for 2005, you had a good year then, but now it's time for change.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Aug 29, 2011 -> 12:11 PM) Let me be clear: I'm not rationalizing away the decisions that were made or excusing accountability. I think this organization was presented with a very bad set of choices this season and that it made some poor decisions when presented with those choices. However, the greatest impact on the season seems to be the 4-18 stretch that put us 11 games out and in last place, perpetually crawling back at a snail's pace. How much of Ozzie and Kenny was that stretch? In my mind it was the bullpen problems for most games, a little Pierre and a little Dunn and Rios. There's never just one cause for not making the playoffs, so there's no reason to try and pick just one. I agree that the players are the most responsible for us being down six games, but that doesn't mean we couldn't have a better record right now had Ozzie and KW done their jobs better. The fact is that Ozzie could have managed the lineup better and KW could have managed our roster (during the season) better Their poor decisions have cost us games in addition to certain players underperforming or having terrible stretches. Everyone, the players, the coaches, and the front office should be held accountable for the area they control. There is no reason to try and just pin it one one group.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 29, 2011 -> 11:44 AM) Again, we had options this year to lessen the blow (i.e., start batting Dunn lower in the lineup, bring up De Aza & Viciedo, etc.) Exactly. There is no excuse for Dunn batting 4th once it could be dermined that something was significantly wrong with him. I don't blame Ozzie for giving the guy an extended opportunity to come out of his slump, but at some point he should have moved him down the lineup. Him batting 4th, given other offensive struggles, totally killed our lineup. That's 100% on Ozzie and it could very well cost us the division in the end. Additionally, there's no excuse whatsoever for not calling Viciedo up earlier this season. Our offense has been struggling all year and he would have most likely been our third best hitter on arrival. Again, you had to give Dunn an opportunity to bounce back, but by the all-star break is was clear he most likely was unfixable this year. Viciedo could have slid in DH most of time and spelled Quentin/Pierre once or twice a week. This is 100% on KW. He's in charge of the roster and should have forced Guillen's hand. If we lose this division by a game or two, Viciedo over Dunn from July forward probably would have made up that difference.