Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (flavum @ Mar 13, 2011 -> 10:37 AM) 2:55/670AM- interactive after the 4th inning. Pierre LF, Beckham 2B, Dunn DH, Konerko 1B, Quentin RF, Milledge CF, Vizquel SS, Castro C, Morel 3B, Danks P I like seeing Milledge in CF. If he can be serviceable out there, then he should get the 4th OF job. Rios doesn't need a lot of time off anyways.

Have the people who were impressed with Lillibridge last season even looked at his minor league numbers? Last year in AAA he put up a .708 OPS in a pretty damn good hitters park. It was his third season in AAA and his overall best year since 2007. I don't care what he did at the major league level for a couple of months, the guy is not and will never be a good offensive player. This is like the Donny Lucy stuff all over again. Every once in a while a garbage player can get lucky in the majors for a period of time. That doesn't make him a good player. Now, Lillibridge may not be a pure garbage player. He's versatile and fast which can be great for a bench, but he doesn't play any of his positions at an elite level. He's a great 26th man if he's down in AAA backing up our backups, but due to his lack of options, that's probably not a possibility anymore. If you can get him through waivers and have him in AAA in the event of an injury then great. But there's absolutely no reason to put him on the major league roster if we're going with a four man bench and already have two infielders. We need a legit fourth outfielder and Millidge is the best guy for that job IMO. Plus he can mash lefties (another need on our bench) and still has the potential to become an everyday player. He's the better option for 2011 and he's the better option in 2012 and beyond when Pierre and Quentin could be gone. I don't see how anyone could honestly prefer Lillibridge over him. I think people are being blinded by a couple of lucky months from Lillibridge.

QUOTE (soxsider11 @ Mar 8, 2011 -> 06:36 PM) That is very little speed to come off the bench. Milledge only had 5 sbs last year compared to lillibridges 16. Just sayin cause that could come into the decision Unfortunately, when you have a four man bench you're going to have to make some sacrifices. While having a true speed guy would be nice, I'd much rather have Milledge to serve as a quasi-platoon partner and late inning defensive replacement for Quentin. Plus he's fast enough to serve as a pinch-runner for the really slow guys. Obviously Ozzie may feel differently and choose Lillibridge or De Aza. I wouldn't be surprised.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 8, 2011 -> 05:24 PM) With his lack of defensive skills/experience, the abundance of DH's on this team, and the likelihood of other RH hitting OF players on the bench (Milledge or De Aza), it's hard for me to believe that Viciedo getting 3 starts a week would be worth an extra win to this team even if he hit well. If we go with a four man bench and are stuck with Teahen, then the question becomes which reserve outfielder is the best fit for the team. The four guys competing for the spot appear to be Milledge, De Aza, Viciedo, and Lillibridge. Each guy offers something different. De Aza is the only left-handed bat out of the bunch. Viciedo and Milledge crush left-handed pitching. De Aza and Lillibridge are the only two who can play a reasonable CF. Lillibridge and Viciedo can play some IF positions. Clearly each guy has his pros and cons. Looking at our roster makeup, we definitely need a right-handed hitting backup OF. Pierre has actually been better against lefties the past few years, but we have Teahen available when he needs a day off. Quentin is much better against righties and is obviously a defensive liability. A solid defensively OF who can hit lefties well would solve several needs. That guy seems to be Milledge to me. Given the amount of starts each guy would get on a regular basis, the difference between him and Viciedo would be minimal. Also, why it's great that Viciedo can play 1B and 3B, Morel and Konerko are both RH hitters and we have Dunn to slide into 1B once a week. As for CF, I'd rather use Pierre there when Rios needs a day off and be able to keep Milledge on the roster than be forced to use Lillibridge. His bat is just too weak IMO. All things considered, I'd much rather have Viciedo in AAA playing outfield on a regular basis and being our first line of defense against an injury at LF/RF/1B/DH. What's funny about all this is that trying to optimize the bench is probably a complete waste because Ozzie won't look at the splits. He'll use Teahen as Quentin's backup and use Milledge or Viciedo as Pierre's backup anyways.

I see no reason to trade Flowers in the near future. If he's productive this year, you have a solid 3rd string catcher at AAA for the time-being and a backup catcher/platoon option for 2012. He'll have decent trade value, but considering we'll need a long-term answer at catcher, his value will likely be greater to our team. If he sucks, he'll basically destroy any value he has at the moment and becomes organizational filler. Considering we probably can't get much for him right now anyways, might as well roll the dice on him having a bounce-back season. I still believe he can become a solid catcher in the future.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Feb 3, 2011 -> 06:42 PM) This is true, and I wish the trade would have been done. Instead of trading for and then signing Dunn, the Sox lose the draft pick in a draft that is very deep. No offense, but that logic is stupid. The value of a nearly major league ready prospect with all-star potential who's only 21 years old is far greater than that of the 20th pick in a deep draft who's at least 2 to 3 years from the majors. Worst case scenario, Viciedo will be a quality platoon 1B/DH, while the draft pick will flame out within a year and give you nothing.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Feb 2, 2011 -> 06:52 AM) First I'd like to say that I listen to that podcast every week, it's the best thing going. With that being said, I think KG is valid in putting Escobar over Viciedo. As it's already been said with Escobar, you have a guy who HAS a great glove who won't hit a ton, but still will prevent a ton of runs with his glove. Then on the opposite spectrum you have Viciedo who MIGHT hit 40 homeruns, but comes with a lot of other questions, such as will he walk more than once every other month? Can he play any position on the field? I guess my bias comes down to this: Personally I just don't get the Viciedo hype. Guys who have the same OBP and their batting average need to get really, really, really lucky to sustain valuable production. I saw a few power surges with Tank, but I'm skeptical that he will ever come close to putting up typical big league slugger/no glove numbers that justify trotting him out to a corner OF spot. So if you could have only one of these guys in our system, you'd take Esobar over Viciedo?

QUOTE (GREEDY @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 04:08 PM) Dude is a DH on a team with three already under contract. f***ing trade him. For what? How does trading Viciedo right now help us this season?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 03:32 PM) I know, I know, I just hope you're seeing my side a little here. Yeah, hindsight is 20/20, but you have to admit...he might well be starting on the big league team this year if we'd committed to the right position for him 2 years ago and not moved him. I do see your point. His bat is pretty much major league ready, but now he needs more time to develop defensively. Who knows if or how long that will take? I just hope he can eventually make it in LF or RF, because we don't have enough potential impact bats in the system to waste his.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 01:29 PM) ^^^^ this. He's really to Carlos Leeish and LF is where he should be IMO. I do agree with the feeling of jacking him all over the place. He's the Danieal Manning of the White Sox. Can someone please tell me why you're supposed to put your weaker OF in LF? I get that you'd put your outfielder with the weakest arm in LF, but how does a lack of range or poor reads improve by being in LF rather than RF? The only thing I can think of is that less balls get hit to LF, but I don't know if that's the case. I would think that since there are so many more right-handed hitters that more balls would actually go to LF.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 12:36 PM) I know it's still early and he still has development time...but compare this reality to the hypothetical situation where we put him in RF immediately upon getting to AA. Instead of 2 years of bouncing between 1b and 3b, he could have had 2 years already playing RF, and by the end of this year, 3 years working on his RF defense. He could have been ready to replace Carlos Quentin this year if he got hurt, or next year if he's DFA'd. Instead, we need him to almost start from scratch. Yeah, hindsight is 20/20, but still. Oh come on Balta, you're going to fault the White Sox for not playing Viciedo in RF two years ago, when Quentin and Dye were coming off .965 and .885 OPS seasons respectively? At that time, they had what appeared to be a young, superstar type player under team control for four more seasons who they thought they could move to RF eventually. Dye was still under contract for another year and could possibly last more. When it appeared that Dye was done in 2009, they went out and traded for another outfielder signed to a long-term deal in Rios. They also spent their first round pick on a college outfielder, who I'm sure they hoped would be in the major-league mix sooner had he not gotten injured. All things considered, outfield wasn't a huge need for the White Sox at that time. Meanwhile, you've got Thome a free agent after the 2009 season and Konerko after the 2010 season. The team then trades it's only other possible 1B/DH option in Brandon Allen during the 2009 season. You're third baseman to start 2009 is Josh Fields and your best 3B prospect is Brent Morel who's in low A. In fact, 3B was so bad you replace Fields with a rookie SS and then eventually trade for Mark Teahen. Clearly, 1B/DH and 3B were bigger concerns for the organization than the OF was at the time. Had the organization knew it would sign Dunn and Konerko long-term and that Morel would have such a rapid rise to the majors, I'm sure they would have considered playing him in the OF earlier. Unfortunately, there would have been no way to know that and therefore, it's wrong to fault them for how they handled Viciedo.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 05:41 AM) I definitely see Dayan starting the year in AAA and getting time in the OF. Depending on how Quentin, Dayan and the sox do, it could then lead to trading Carlos. The only way the sox would trade Carlos in season would be if they were out of it, Dayan showed ability in the OF, and Carlos could bring a decent return. But I'm not sure if Dayan could better Carlos' defense. I don't see a Rios, Dayan and Carlos OF in 2012. One of the two won't be with the sox after 2011. Honestly, I don't see why we couldn't have an outfield of Quentin-Rios-Viciedo in 2012. Pierre is a free agent after this year, so we should have an opening in the outfield. Viciedo will probably be the only guy in our minor league system ready to take that spot, assuming he can develop enough defensively this year. I'd put Viciedo in RF (where I'd have him playing everyday in AAA this year) and then move Quentin back to LF. I know that outfield won't be great defensively, but the increase offensivley should be significant going from Pierre to Viciedo. If Teahen is still on our roster, we can use him against tough righties, which would help Viciedo in his first season as a regular. I just don't think trading Quentin after the 2011 season will make a lot of sense. To build any trade value, he's going to need to have a big year, since he'll only have one year left on his contract and will be a third-year arbitration player. If that's the case, I'd probably hold on to him for 2012 and hope he earns type A compensation. That way you'd have the choice of signing him long-term (which would still be too risky IMO) or getting two picks. Plus Jared Mitchell should (key word should) be ready by then, so you'll have in-house replacement if necessary. I just doubt you're going to get more than two draft picks if you trade him after the 2011 season. Also, this could all be meaningless if Quentin sucks in 2011, because he then becomes non-tender candidate.

How does trading a potential #2 or #3 starter for an arbitration-eligible reliever who sported a 4.40 ERA in 2010 make us better in 2011?? Joba may have great stuff and potential but so does Jackson. Jackson also has a much better track record at the major league level than Joba. Throw in the fact that we're talking about the value a starter would provide us to that of a reliever and I see no reason to make this trade. As for freeing up money for the trade deadline, you have to get there first while remaining competitive which will be much harder to do when you significantly weaken your team. I get it, we probably overpaid for Jackson, but that doesn't mean he can't be a key contributor to our team this year. The guy easily could be our best starter in 2011. I wouldn't trade him or any other starter unless our team clearly got better at the major league level which would be very hard to accomplish. Unfortunately, I think some people here are so angry that we traded away Dan Hudson that they want to get rid of Jackson to somehow erase the pain.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 09:45 AM) Again, I'm not arguing that he will put up those same numbers and I'm not arguing that he will be Adam Dunn. I'm saying it's a calculated risk I would take, given his worth ethic, his past history, and the money required to sign him versus Dunn. And he is a HoF player. Doing things that no one has ever done before is what makes them HoF players. But Balta brought up a good point. Even if Thome does a great job next year, you'll still have a hole at DH and huge need for left-handed pop the following season. That's a need we can't fill from within anytime soon, which means back to free agency or the trade market. Are you really going to find a better short-term and long-term option than Dunn next year? I don't think so, at least not at the years and salary we signed him at.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 14, 2011 -> 11:44 PM) I just think considering the age of the roster and the contract situations of some of our pitching staff, should we not win this year or next year, we could reach a point wherein it is most prudent to rebuild and take the route they considered this offseason, but ultimately decided not to take. And at that point, having Adam Dunn around really isn't going to help us. I would, however, have been willing to take the risk in committing to Beltre because I feel adding him, as well as Lee and Thome would have given us a better team on the field for the next two years than the Dunn/Konerko combo will. If we fail to win in the next year or two, why can't we trade Dunn at that point? Wouldn't that only help the rebuilding process?

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 8, 2011 -> 01:05 PM) I won't go nuts over two years and 4 million. But my stance on relievers remains the same. And I'm one that doesn't believe this team is any better outside the massive upgrade in Dunn. If Beckham and CQ don't bounce back and PK regresses along with not having Peavy for possibly half the season we could once again fall short to the Twins or even the Tigers. I understand your stance and the risk behind signing relievers to multi-year deals, but how else were we going to improve our bullpen for 2011? Free agency was our only option and that meant offering multi-year deals. There's obviously a huge risk that Crain and/or Ohman sucks in one of their years with us, but would you rather throw out two unproven minor leaguers without great track records in 2011 to avoid that risk? Given our situation, I'll worry about 2012 and 2013 later. It would have been utterly stupid to go into the season with obvious holes in the bullpen, given the potential of our offense and rotation, because we were worried Crain and Ohman MIGHT be bad in future years.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 05:56 PM) Then why waste coin on Ohman? What would you rather spend our money on other than the bullpen? What other need do we have at the major league level that deserves more attention right now? You keep saying don't sign relievers to multi-year deals, but how else do you expect us to improve the bullpen in 2011 if we don't have any options available in our minor league system? I don't think we can afford to trade what little minor league talent we have for a reliever. I don't see another choice but to overpay in free agency, especially since we're all in 2011.

QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 03:59 PM) Wait we let Freddy walk? Who's taking his spot? I thought our five were: -Peavey -Buehrle -Danks -Floyd -Garcia Did I miss something? Edwin Jackson.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 10:24 AM) Because before you know it, you're paying out a bunch of money to players that are no longer on your baseball team. Maybe if this wasn't a one-time event. Who else do we owe defer money to? Other than possibly Manny, I don't think there is a single player we owe deferred money to who won't be on our roster next season. At the end of the day, all this does is bring the present value of that third year down a bit. I think PK was willing to help out the Sox financially a little bit in exchange for a third guaranteed year. The deferred money is only a positive for the Sox.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 09:55 AM) That 6 million figure for 2013 is probably evidence that we didn't want to go that 3rd year and we're going to be paying Jake Peavy $4 million to buy out his contract. Great, now we are derferring money too. Why is deferring money a bad thing??

QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 09:16 AM) If Reinsdorf is overpaying Konerko, I hope he in turn extends out the budget so they can actually get a bullpen, and not be forced to trade Floyd and/or Quentin. This signing won't be something to celebrate until we actually know what the roster is looking like going into February. This is exactly what I'm worried about. I'm torn between the Konerko/reliever via trade and DLee/FA reliever options. I see pros and cons to both options. However, I'm really concerned that if we sign Konerko, KW is going to overpay for a reliever using Quentin. He may think with Konerko and Dunn he can afford to sacrifice some offense to strengthen the bullpen. I honestly think that would be a huge mistake. That's why I'm starting to lean towards the DLee option if KW can also get a legitimate right-handed setup man.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 03:10 AM) So he had an off year in which he was suffering lingering effects from a broken hand the year before. From '07 to '09 he sported a .935 OPS. I really don't see this as a bad move. And at only 1 year? Worth the risk, IMO. I've got to be honest with you, that .935 OPS is a pretty skewed stat. In 2007, he had an absolutely crazy and complete outlier of a season. He put up a 1.037 OPS, which was due to an usually high BA of .282 and SLG of .627. Pena, if healthy, is more like a .870 - .890 OPS player IMO. That is incredibly valuable for a team that needs a left-handed power bat. I think it's the perfect signing for a team like the Cubs.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 04:33 PM) I don't know how we could. What would interest them. Quentin? They kinda have that but better in Braun. Sale can't be traded as anything but a PTBNL and that's a mess. Morel and Viciedo are really our only 2 legit trade pieces right now, and trading Morel makes Teahen your 3b starter again since you'd have no money left over after taking on Fielder. Basically, the best legit non-pitching offer we can make is Viciedo + Escobar, and I'm not sure I'd do that deal either considering that Fielder's going to be a $15 million or so player this year. I meant Beckham and a couple of prospects. Again, not saying I'd make that trade, but I'm sure that Doug Melvin would consider it.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 04:15 PM) You'd be crazy to value Fielder and Gonzalez the same in a trade. First of all, one of them is a solid defender, the other is already best as a DH. Secondly, Gonzalez is on tap to make $6.5 million this season, while Fielder is looking at an arbitration raise from his $11 million deal last year. I wouldn't give up Beckham straight up for Fielder. I wouldn't have given him up for Gonzalez either, but I'd be less angry about that one. I agree with you completely. I wouldn't trade Beckham for either guy, although I'd probably have gotten over a Gonzalez trade quickly if an extension was worked out. Anyways, I'm just saying we could probably make a competitive offer for Fielder without including any major league pitching.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 04:08 PM) Yeah now that you mention it, that would be tough. Even if you package up some 2-3 of Escobar, Mitchell, Reed/Petricka (if they are even eligible), Mitchell, etc., maybe with one of the lower level guys... that probably still wouldn't do it, and the already thin system would be thoroughly gutted. But, if the Sox called, they must have had something in mind. I almost wonder if they were thinking someone on the major league roster, like Quentin. There's always a possibility they make the same offer they made for Gonzalez assuming they could sign Fielder to an extension. Not sure if Milwaukee would be interested in such an offer though.