Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 6, 2010 -> 10:05 AM) The problem is no team is going to give their top prospect for a set up guy, and if you're going to their 7th or 8th prospect or some obscure A ball player, who cares. Why are these the only two options? If a team has a strong farm system, what's wrong with their 2nd or 3rd best prospect plus another guy in the top 10? To be honest, I think a team with a need in their bullpen would give up a ton for Thornton. He's one of the best relievers in the game and can just flat out dominate. In the post-season, I think his value would be incredible, even as a setup man.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Jun 6, 2010 -> 01:32 AM) Depending on the return...why on earth would these guys be on your untouchable list?!?!? I don't consider these guys untouchable. I just don't think you'd get anything of value for them this year. Like I said, I'd rather hold onto them for another season and see what you got with them. Also, we are going to have to keep a couple guys as the starting point for the lineup. Again, the guys I'd hold on to are Rios, Beckham, Quentin and Ramirez. I'd use Pierre and Teahen (assuming you can't move their contracts) as our temporary LF and 3B until Mitchell/Danks and Morel are ready. That leaves 1B, C and DH/RF to fill. I'd make sure to get a serious left-handed power bat for the middle of the order that can play 1B or RF via trade or free agency. I'd probably fill one spot with Viciedo and possibly C with Flowers depending on his turnaround. If not, I'd get a one year stopgap. Pierre LF Beckham 2B Rios CF Free Agent RF Quentin DH Viciedo 1B Ramirez SS Teahen 3B Flowers C I know that lineup is ugly, but we are going to have to add some youth to it in order to cut payroll. I think Viciedo and Flowers are the only guys on the offensive side with a shot of being ready at the beginning of 2011.

If we want any chance of competing in 2011, I'd keep the following players, baring any crazy offers: Peavy Buerhle Danks Floyd Santos Pena Rios Beckham Quentin Ramirez Regardless of the results this season, I still think our rotation (with the addition of Hudson) can be a serious asset for 2011. Plus I don't think we'll get much at all for any of these guys (except Danks who's an automatic keeper) and I don't think that freed salary space will be of much value for us after this diaster of a season. The bullpen is going to need to be addressed, but I'd like to keep Santos and Pena as the starting point. I'd also make my best effort to get a ransom for Thornton, but if that offer isn't out there, I make him my closer for the rest of the season. As for the offense, there is no way in hell you trade Rios. The guy is locked up long-term to a reasonable contract and is the only guy you can really count on to be a productive middle of the lineup hitter. Beckham is also an untouchable. I'd also give Quentin and Ramirez another season before deciding what to do with them. I don't see us losing much value by waiting. Therefore, the guys I would focus on trading would be Putz, Jenks, Garcia, Konerko, A.J. and Jones (and Thornton depending on the return). I don't think anyone else would get us much of anything in return, but obviously I'd be willing to part with some of the other guys if someone wanted them.

I think we should move Putz to the closer role for two reasons. Right now, I think he's our best option in terms of having the most effective overall bullpen. I'd rather keep Thornton available for a variety of high-leverage situations, including the occasional save opportunity. This would also allow us to give Santos some more late-inning work without putting too much pressure on him at once. Also, if you move Putz to closer and he succeeds, it should bump up his trade value quite a bit. As for Jenks, I only want him pitching in low-pressure situations for the time-being. He needs to work on his secondary pitches if he wants to be effective, so let him work through those kinks in games that he can't blow. I'm all for giving Bobby another chance at some point, but something significant has got to change before I throw him out there with a 1 or 2 run lead again.

QUOTE (chw42 @ May 18, 2010 -> 06:04 PM) Ozzie's gotten to the point where he's just full of himself and he, like you, is riding it all on 2005. He just does far too many things that don't make sense and he puts his players in a position to fail. That's his fault and he should eventually pay the price for being the way he is. IMO, Guillen's arrogance has been his downfall recently. He believes he knows more than everyone else. He constantly goes against the numbers and he constantly goes against common sense. Guillen shouldn't be fired because of our record, he should be fired because of his decision making. Like chw42 says above, he puts his players in a position to fail. It's really that simple.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 17, 2010 -> 01:54 PM) I agree with Jenks Heat, no more just giving away players and saying "we owed it to them to put them into a better situation". KW has done a miserable job in the past of trading veterans for prospects, so I'm not overly optimistic he'll turn Jenks, AJP, Konerko, Jones, etc. into solid depth for our minors. The biggest positive is likely to come from saved money as well as opportunities for Flowers, Thornton (to close), Santos, Danks 2. Danks 2 is not even close to being ready IMO. If we bring him up this year, we'll be doing him a huge disservice. He needs to cut down those strikeouts and raise his average in AAA before getting any consideration.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 17, 2010 -> 01:39 PM) For 2011, I would say yes. For this season, the Castro money is already out the door, so might as well keep him there for the duration of the season (unless Castro looks awful, then get rid of him and call up Lucy). I guess I just see a benefit to having an experienced backup catcher if your starter is a rookie. I think having a veteran might actually help Flowers' development. Also, I'm not a big Lucy fan. I just don't see his bat holding up over the course of a full season.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 17, 2010 -> 12:55 PM) We need to stop giving Major League deals to crappy veteran players. When guys like J. Gomes are getting Minor League deals, while Kotsay and Vizquel get Major League deals, that shows that we misjudged the market to start last offseason. We can have a cheaper bench with likely better results. No reason to sign Castro for 1.2 mil next year, just let Lucy back-up. If Flowers is the everyday starter, would you still want Lucy backing him up?

If this team is serious about contending in 2011, then we need to get Flowers some experience with the pitching staff this season. We're going to have several big holes to fill this off-season and have a couple bad contracts that will limit our financial flexibility to fill them. Therefore, we need a couple guys in the minors to step up and fill some spots cheaply while being at least semi-productive. Hudson should replace Freddy, but that won't give us huge cost savings. Santos can hopefully take on Putz or Jenks' role, which will save us some money even if we have to replace one or both of them. What we really need is someone to help on offense. IMO, the only guy close to being ready is Flowers. If he can just give us average production for a catcher, we're in a lot better position to afford the middle-of-the-order bat this offense desperately needs. Unfortunately, as much as I love what A.J. provides, I feel like we have to trade him (before he gets his 10/5 rights) to open up a spot for Flowers. If you can get something back for him of value or at least save some money then great, but the last thing I want to see is Flowers experiencing significant growing pains while handling the pitching staff in 2011.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 14, 2010 -> 09:52 PM) Good question. I can't imagine any fans who do not already have tickets heading out to the Cell to watch this. I mean, baseball is fantastic, but it is kinda expensive to go to a game. Minor leagues might be a better bang for the buck until we turn the team around. I'm more than happy to pay money to watch the Sox in a down year, but not if I have to watch players like Kotsay and Omar. At some point in the near future, we'll need to throw a young guy or two into the lineup. Unfortunately, the Sox face two serious problems. First, we have several well-paid veterans playing terrible, which makes creating openings in the lineup much more difficult. Second, the only minor leaguer IMO who deserves a call-up right now is Flowers. I have no idea what KW is going to do with this team, but I'm sure it'll be interesting.

So who's the first minor leaguer called up from AAA/AA to help this god forsaken offense?

QUOTE (bmags @ Apr 28, 2010 -> 10:38 PM) the amount of god damn times i've heard this the past decade is embarrassing. I'm not saying I think it's likely, but I think it's still a possibility. I take it you're already writing off the season then?

QUOTE (Real @ Apr 28, 2010 -> 10:07 PM) Seriously, so many knee-jerkers on this site. Patience is a virtue. The team sucks now, it's hard to watch as a fan. But can we seriously end the "FIRE OZZIE" among other ridiculous comments until the team is 10+ games out in June/July? Almost half the roster are guys who were either acquired mid-season last year, have never played for the Sox prior to this year, or were acquired at the beginning of 2009. This is, for the most part, a team of guys who haven't really clicked 'as a team' yet. I think it'll happen sooner rather than later. And no, I don't think Kenny will blow this up, or fire anybody prior to the Sox going above .500 in 2010. It's hard for people like me who still largely believes in this team, to read some of the s*** on this site. I don't believe in putting people on ignore unless they are truly annoying, but sometimes I just shake my head in doubt I'm not saying we'll win the division, but I'm not making my prediction based on what I'm seeing in the month of April. Is there anyone else on this site that agrees with me? Sometimes I feel like I'm surrounded by a pack of rabid monkeys Good post. I agree with you about the negativity. I think people are going a little overboard with the "season is over" predictions. A lot of our guys are going to bounce back and there's still time to make up for this terrible start. However, I think the "fire Ozzie" claims are legitimate. He's simply making a lot of bad decisions. I won't go into the specifics here, but IMO, he is a detriment to the team. We need radical changes in terms of game-day decision making and I'm not sure Ozzie is willing to make those changes.

Am I crazy or does our worst reliever lead our team in appearances? How can Ozzie get away with these stupid-f***ing decisions? I'm not giving up on this team, but I hope KW gives up on Ozzie soon.

There's no excuse for sitting Quentin and Jones on the same day. Unless there are injuries I'm unaware of, Ozzie is a complete f***ing joke. The best part is that the Sox will probably score enough runs to win this game, but only because of the contributions from the players who actually deserve to be in the starting lineup.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Apr 13, 2010 -> 02:14 AM) And DH Juan Pierre? He might be the WORST full-time DH ever then, lol. I mean seriously DH = designated hitter. Isn't it kind of ironic that we would have a guy who can't hit, but does nothing but go up to bat as our DH? At this point in the season, it's irrelevent if Juan Pierre is our DH. Guillen is going to bat him leadoff everyday for the near future. If another player, i.e. Jones, gives you better defense then he should be getting the playing time in the outfield. IMO, the DH spot should be rotated between Pierre, Quentin, Jones, and Konerko predominantly. Against really tough righties, I'd DH Konerko and play Kotsay at 1B. For those games, Jones would sit on the bench. Otherwise, I'd DH Pierre and Quentin each once or twice a week and let Jones fill in at their respective spot in the OF. I don't like the idea of moving Carlos around between LF and RF. I'd probably DH Jones once a week as well to give him a little rest. I do not want to see Kotsay DHing ever. His value to the team is being our left-handed pinch hitter. When he is in the starting lineup, the only other sort-of option we have is Vizquel and I don't like that. I'm fine with Kotsay starting once a week at 1B, but otherwise, he should be sitting on the bench and available to PH in the late innings like we saw last night.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Mar 9, 2010 -> 06:51 PM) Who is Brent Lillibridge going to replace for defensive purposes late in a ballgame? Jayson Nix when he starts, which will happen more frequently if he's your primary backup infielder. You could also take Teahen out of a game and move Vizquel to 3B, assuming he's the new starter at 2B/SS, and put Lillibridge at either of those positiions. He can also play some CF if you want to use him as a pinch-runner for an outfielder. In a perfect world, your second backup infielder shouldn't be getting a lot of playing time anyways. I guess my question would be what's a better internal option at the moment for the 2nd backup infielder in the event of an injury? I don't think Retherford is quite ready yet and I'd rather give him a little more time to develop with regular playing time.

I don't even see this as a competition. Unless another GM offers KW something of value for Nix, which is extremely unlikely, he will be the extra infielder on the opening day roster. Nix has no options left, so you might as well start the season with him and see what you have. That way if someone gets hurt early on, you at least have Lillibridge in AAA to take on Nix's role. As horrible as that sounds, he at least has some value as a late innning defensive replacement and pinch runner.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Feb 25, 2010 -> 02:37 PM) MLBTradeRumors has a link up saying the Blue Jays may be close to signing Cuban 1B Jose Julio Ruiz. If the Jays sign Ruiz, then Overbay, who IMO is already a realistic option for us, should become even more available. What about a Kotsay + prospect for Overbay deal? Overbay has one year remaining at $7M and the Sox were rumored to have offered at least $6M for Damon, so there's money available. I imagine just sending Kotsay and offering to pick up the $5.5M difference would be enough for the Jays to make a deal without getting anyone too significant in return as far as prospects go. If we picked up Overbay, we'd get a lefty stick to break up all those righties in the middle, plus we'd improve defensively at 1B over Paulie, who could DH most of the time. Andruw Jones would still get playing time as a 4th OF and occasional DH. If we weren't willing to spend the money on Nick Johnson, we aren't going to trade Kotsay and a prosepct for the right to spend the same amount of money on Overbay. I just don't see KW and Guillen wanting and/or willing to do this for several reasons. Also, they aren't just going to throw their remaining funds at just any player that upgrades the team, they are going to spend this money on a difference-maker. Whether we agree with him or not, KW probably viewed Damon as a difference maker in the lineup.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 30, 2010 -> 08:57 AM) I think he'd hit between 12-18 homers, score a lot of runs. Steal at least 20 because Ozzie wants to run. His SB were down last year he says because he didn't run in front of Texiera. He was 12-12 stealing. He can replace Getz' production there. Who knows, maybe when it gets serious, someone is willing to step up and pay him, but if he signs for $5-6 million total and the White Sox don't get involved, I think they would have made a mistake. Damon really is the perfect fit for this team. You showed how he can contribute offensively in a bunch of ways, but most importantly, the guy gets on base at a nice rate and this team is seriously lacking OBP as currently constructed. Also, he can play a little bit of OF, which would allow Ozzie to keep his rotating DH scenario inact, but in a more productive manner. Honestly, this is something that will come down to the dollars. If Damon's price falls to $4 million, I don't see KW passing on him. In fact, I think Damon is the one free agent KW would sign with or without 100% approval of Ozzie. General question though, if the Sox were to sign Damon, where does he bat in the lineup? Would Guillen really bat two lefties back-to-back at the top of his lineup? The #2 spot seems like the best fit for Damon, but I could see Guillen wanting to spread out his lefties.

QUOTE (dmbjeff @ Jan 25, 2010 -> 08:14 PM) Rongey, who would Jones or Kotsay seriously start for right now? They are bench players, 4th OF's. Jones hasn't been a good starter since 2006 and 2007 since being a starter at all. Kotsay hasn't been a starter since 2006 while putting up 4th OF type numbers. Jones has at least been good in the past but it's been 4 years since he a was good. Are we counting on him to be good again just because he is supposed to be in good shape? If he was in such great shape and ready to be good again, wouldn't another team have been clamoring for him or Kotsay this offseason? Let's put it this way. One half of our DH platoon was acquired for Brian Anderson last year and the other is being paid half as much as Anderson, who is now a reserve outfield for the Royals. That should put into perspective the lack of resources we are actually putting into the DH spot. Also, I don't care if Kotsay and/or Jones could start in the OF for an awful team like the Pirates, they have no business getting semi-regular at-bats as our DH for a team that hopes to contend. Is there a chance Jones (and to a lesser extent Kotsay) has a solid year? Of course there is, but the odds are so low, why even take the chance when a better option is available at a reasonable price. Rongey - I remember listening to you defend Dwayne Wise at the beginning of last year. After watching him struggle during the first couple weeks of the season, you kept telling us listeners that we had to give him more time. You said he may not amount to anything, but it was too early to come to any conclusions. Why in god's name did we have to give him more time? Anyone with half a brain knew he sucked in the minors and would continue to suck in the pros. This is no different than the rotating DH bulls***. Why wait to be dissapointed when we can use the last four years right now to predict poor production from Kotsay and Jones out of the DH spot. I really hope I'm wrong and they make me look like an asshole, but the evidence is strongly against them being productive. Regardless, this "versatility" idea for the DH spot is completely stupid without a ninth quality batter, and as of today, neither Kotsay or Jones counts as one.

I found it amusing at SoxFest that KW said something along the lines that while the 2010 Sox will have less power they will make up for it with more men on-base and overall team speed. Unfortunately, while we may be faster, we have not added any high OBP guys. I remember KW saying this would be an off-season priority and yet he hasn't addressed it one bit. I'm not the biggest Thome fan in the world, but right now, there is no better option. He gives the team the left-handed power and OBP it desperately needs in the middle of the lineup and would come very cheaply. If KW does not sign Thome (or a similar FA) and goes with a rotating DH of bench players, it will truly be a mistake of Dwayne Wise proportions. This versatility propaganda is complete and utter bulls***. Only a fool like Guillen could come up with such s***. I really hope that KW isn't stupid enough to believe Guillen's "logic". It really would be a shame to waste a season with such a potentially dominant rotation.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 12, 2010 -> 08:50 PM) Ozzie is the manager, and should manage the team he is given; Williams is the general manager and should put the best team on the field that he can. Guillen should not tell Williams how to do his job and vice versa. This is why both men should be held accountable if this team doesn't make the playoffs due to offensive struggles. There is absolutely no excuse for not having a true everyday DH. If we had four good outfielders (or two good 1B) and wanted to rotate DH duties between them it would be one thing. But to rotate between players who are backups at the Major League level because of their limited offensive abilities is pure insanity. It's quite clear that Guillen wants an NL team. Unfortunately, we play in the AL where the DH position is not a luxury but rather a neccesity. If this rotating DH nonsense is for real, then I don't think Guillen is the right man for the job. More importantly, it makes me question KW as a GM. His job is to acquire the most talented players possible and construct a team that he thinks can win. It's not to give his manager, who doesn't evaluate MLB talent for a living, an equal voice in personel decisions. I just hope this all a smokescreen because I want to like Ozzie and KW.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Dec 18, 2009 -> 11:49 AM) Nix should have Vizquel's role. I'm beginning to think that Vizquel was a complete waste of money and will be a waste of roster space. If you want somebody to coach Alexei, bring him to Spring Training as an instructor. I like the addition of Vizquel, but I just feel like Ozzie will overuse him. He always plays his bench too much IMO, especially the speedy and/or defense-oriented guys. He'll probably start him way too much and bat him at the top of the lineup. Nix can't play solid defense at SS and 3B right now and is too much of an all-or-nothing hitter. In a backup role, I'd easily take Vizquel if there's one spot open.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Dec 18, 2009 -> 10:18 AM) 1) Pierre - LF 2) Beckham - 2B 3) Quentin - RF/DH 4) Konerko - 1B/DH 5) Rios - CF 6) AJP - C 7) Ramirez - SS 8) Teahen - 3B/1B/DH 9) Kotsay/Jones- DH/OF This seems like the most likely best-case scenario Guillen lineup, with the possibility of Beckham and Ramirez being flipped. What I really like is Teahen and the rotating DH spot in the last two spots of the order. They should not be higher unless they prove they can be productive. However, I honestly see Guillen shifting the DH position in various spots of the lineup depending on who's playing that day. It also shows how perfect a left-handed power bat would fit into the cleanup spot. It's a damn shame if KW doesn't find this player, because the lineup could be pretty solid with a legit cleanup hitter IMO.