Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 9, 2010 -> 08:57 PM) Which raises the possibility they're just not good players. Who specifically are you referring to? Peavy, Buerhle, Floyd, Quentin, Beckham? Regardless, I just don't buy this theory. Players have bad stretches. Look how many half-seasons Konerko has thrown away over the years. Is he a bad player? Now, have we overvalued some of these guys? Most likely. Quentin may never be that near-MVP again, but his physical talent far exceeds his production at this point. Same goes for Peavy. He may never be an ace in the AL, but he still has the ability to be a damn good starter. Floyd and Beckham have also been awful this year, but they both have the talent to rebound to some extent in the near future. These guys aren't bad players, they are just playing like ones currently. Give them a full season and I'm fairly confident their stats will start significantly trending upwards. The only high-paid, low-performing player I'd start getting worried about is Buerhle. His performance has been terrible since his perfect game. With his limited pure stuff, you got to start wondering if he'll ever be close to the same pitcher he once was. I'm not giving up on him just yet, but I don't like what I'm seeing with him right now.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 8, 2010 -> 09:34 AM) It is important because AJ said he won't allow a trade after that date. Even if he decides he's willing to accept a trade, once he has his 10/5 rights, he can dictate where he wants to go. I don't envision too many teams competing for his services, but he could easily tell KW he'll only accept a trade to one of them (for example a team near his home in Florida). We're already looking at a minimal return for A.J. and giving him power will only weaken it further.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jun 8, 2010 -> 09:19 AM) Could be. JR tends to not go into the red, but the WS may have changed his mind. If Steve Stone is right about PK not being part of the plans for next year, financial motivation seems to make the most sense. Re-inking PK to a 3-year deal at a reduced salary would make sense on a number of levels. I think the motivation is financial-related, but more has to do with the fear of Paulie breaking down and also being able to use the savings to sign a left-handed power bat. If we want to afford someone like Adam Dunn, then we have to let go of Paulie.

Steve Stone was on CSN last night and made it very clear that he believes A.J. will be moved before Monday when he earns his 10/5 rights. He also said that he doesn't think Konerko is part of KW's future plans (not too surprising), so he'll be moved if the team doesn't improve in the near future.

Top four college players left according to Baseball America: 4. Chris Sale, lhp, Florida Gulf Coast 6. Zack Cox, 3b, Arkansas 9. Deck McGuire, rhp, Georgia Tech 10. Michael Choice, of, Texas-Arlington Is there any chance we take one of these guys?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 7, 2010 -> 03:28 PM) Oswalt has a full no-trade clause while Buehrle does not. Although Buerhle will on July 6.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 7, 2010 -> 03:15 PM) No, Jones is the one who hasn't been playing much recently. That was the point of my initial comment about playing Jones more. I know he's been a little banged up, but once (or if) he's ready for more playing time, I don't want to see Kotsay getting in his way.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jun 7, 2010 -> 03:09 PM) I meant Top 10 in the league, which really didn't need to be said. My bad...those prospects never get traded (or at least from what I can remember) so I assumed you meant a team's top 10.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 7, 2010 -> 02:57 PM) Actually, he hasn't been playing all that much recently. Who Kotsay? He's still started half the games in June so far. I don't see any benefit to playing him even that much as he's only taking away at-bats from two of our trading chips in Konerko and Jones.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jun 7, 2010 -> 02:41 PM) Now is the opportunity to deal Thornton. We wont receive any Top 10 prospects, but atleast there's a possibility of adding some higher ceiling, lower level players. I know people will resist dealing him, as they'll probably bring up his value to our team and the unlikeliness of a complete rebuilding project, but just remember this moment when he's losing velocity and stealing 4+ million from our team. You honestly believe we wouldn't get one top 10 prospect from a team for Thornton? That's crazy IMO. I think we'd probably get two, I think the question is how highly rated would the better one be.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 7, 2010 -> 02:39 PM) Yeah, I was really excited to have him til we got to about May 10th. Then I started to wonder where Andruw Jones had gone. Basically at this point, IMO, he's a bench player and defensive replacement for Q. That may be the case, but we might as well throw him out there as much as possible and hope he gets hot. There is no reason to waste at-bats on Kotsay. We still might be able to salvage a reasonable prospect for Jones if he gets hot and a team with limited financial flexibility desperately needs power.

QUOTE (jamesdiego @ Jun 7, 2010 -> 02:30 PM) Peavy seem untradeble. And on wikipedia it says that if Buehrle gets traded he gets a $19 million player option. Is that true? If yes, that was crazy for KW to agree to that. The Cards won't even trade for him for nothing. It was included to protect Buerhle from signing a below-market contract (at the time) and being traded off a couple seasons later.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jun 7, 2010 -> 02:16 PM) Yes, he has been hitting, but he also made 3 errors at first base, in one game over the weekend. He is still just too raw, and probably needs a couple more years in the Minors. If he made it to the Big Leagues in 2012, at age 23, that would be pretty impressive. So you want Viciedo to rot in AAA for three seasons?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 7, 2010 -> 02:13 PM) One of MB or Peavy will be traded, I am pretty sure. Pena might too, and Linebrink if they can find a suitor. I wouldn't trade Pena, especially if we move Putz and Jenks (which I think we will). We need a couple of arms to build our 2011 bullpen around. I'd hold on to Thornton (unless blown away at this deadline), Pena and Santos. We are already going to have a tough time filling the remaining spots 3 or 4 spots (depending on Linebrink), as the only internal guys who might be worth a shot next year are Torres, Threets, Nunez and Santeliz IMO. Unfortunately, I don't see us being able to move Linebrink unless we take an equally bad contract in return, which might be a possibility in the offseason when he'll only have a year left on his contract.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jun 7, 2010 -> 01:43 PM) I don't think that Viciedo will be ready next year. He just turned 21, and has not yet demonstrated that he has the baseball skill and acumen to be one of those rare players who can contribute at the Major League Level at such a young age. Moreover, he is not nearly ready to play consistently good defense at any position. I'd much prefer a power hitting left handed first baseman. I agree we desperately need to add a power hitting left handed bat this offseason, but I think we'll have some flexibility as we can fill that need at 1B, RF, or DH. Also, I'm assuming that Viciedo will be called up sometime after Konerko is moved and will get a chance to show how close he is to being ready. I think they'll end using him in some capacity (1B/DH) in 2011, but I'll admit that could quickly change based on this season's performance. I just think they'll want to inject some youth into the lineup and I think him and Flowers are the only reasonable candidates for 2011.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jun 7, 2010 -> 01:28 PM) How much would a guy like Harden, or reclamation projects like Webb or Bedard cost on the open-market? I'm assuming that Javy, Sheets and Lee will be getting the majority of play for the free-spending teams. It's not just a question of how much they will cost, you also have to ask yourself if they would even want to play for us after our awful 2010 season. Unless we are willing to outbid a lot of teams, we might have serious issues recruiting free agents. And this doesn't factor in we may or may not have a new GM (I doubt) and/or manager (definitely possible) in 2011. Change at those levels could also impact our attractiveness as landing spot for free agents.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jun 7, 2010 -> 01:21 PM) Caruso was a freaking 20-year-old, slap-hitting A-baller when the Sox traded for him. His minor-league BA and OBP were decent, but nothing special. Calling somebody with that skill set a "gem" makes little sense, and the only reason that he started for the Sox in '98 was their lack of other options. He was also a part of a trade that involved five other players, many with MUCH higher ceilings. As hard as it is to believe, he was the #34 prospect in all of baseball in 1998 (#1 White Sox prospect) according to Baseball America. I'm still blown away how anyone could have thought this. He must of had quite the intangibles, since he was both offensively and defensively challenged.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jun 7, 2010 -> 01:17 PM) Pierre and Teahen cost about $10M/year combined. They're not constricting payroll. Attendance, parking, and concession revenue is. It's not that Teahen and Pierre restrict the team's payroll where we can't afford new players, it's that they are paid well enough where I think KW will give them starting spots (assuming we can't dump their contracts). This directly affects where we could spend any savings to improve our lineup. Assuming we also keep Beckham, Rios, Quentin, and Ramirez, then we are only looking at C, 1B and RF/DH to fill. If you want to infuse some youth into the lineup, we are looking at Viciedo at 1B and Flowers at C. That leaves RF/DH to fill via trade or free agency. Obviously, there's a possibility we move Quentin or Ramirez in offseason and need money to fill one of their positions, but right now I'm not expecting it.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jun 7, 2010 -> 12:15 PM) I kind of agree with you, but there's also little point in paying both Peavy and Buehrle when you're selling off the rest of the team and aren't going to compete next year anyway. You'll likely get multiple ML-ready prospects by trading those two, in addition to a ton of salary relief. That's a nice way to rebuild a franchise. That said, it's a moot point because nobody's going to take on Peavy's contract right now. I think we have a shot at retooling and competing next year if we keep the rotation intact. Obviously there would have to be significant changes to the offense and a lot of rebound years (pitching and offense), but I think it's a possibility. If you think you have a chance to compete next season and it doesn't work out, worst case scenario you look to trade Peavy and Buehrle at the deadline and hope their values are higher. Right now, you'd get absolutely nothing in return for them. Also, the salary relief from trading Peavy and Buehrle this season could help, but it totally depends on how effectively KW uses the savings in the offseason. Unfortunately, with Pierre and Teahen locked up already for 2011, I don't see a ton of areas where we could spend the money on offense (assuming we infuse some youth into the lineup). If we end up just overpaying for starting pitching in free agency, then I think it could be counter-productive.

QUOTE (hogan873 @ Jun 7, 2010 -> 11:42 AM) I don't think it would happen, but imagine trading Peavy and Buehrle and freeing up a ton of money for next season. Then you'll be forced to find starting pitching via trade or free agency. I would not want to go into the offseason with two holes in our rotation and no legitimate internal candidates to replace them (assuming Hudson replaces Freddy). We'll end up overpaying with our limited resources (money and talent) as we'll be in a position of need. I think this team really needs to keep Peavy along with Danks, Floyd and Hudson. If you can get back a near MLB-ready starting pitcher in one of our deadline deals, then I'd be open to dumping Buerhle as well. Otherwise, I'd hold onto to him until the offseason when his value may go up (hard to imagine it could get any lower) and there may be a larger market for him.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jun 6, 2010 -> 11:39 PM) And I think that's the key: reload, not rebuild. We still have a core here for a very good baseball team. I agree completely. Plus rebuilding is a total crapshoot and I'm not sure KW would be the right man for the job anways.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 6, 2010 -> 11:07 AM) Why do you want to watch Flowers and Danks strike out so much? That is what they are doing and what they will do if called up in July. I agree completely on Danks. I think bringing him up this season would be awful for his development. In my opinion, he's going to need another full season in AAA before deciding if he's a long-term fit as starting or backup outfielder. On the other hand, I think Flowers is going to rebound from a terrible May. He had a nice start to the season and I have a feeling he made too many changes to his swing all at once in May. No doubt he strikes out a lot, but he's also had success at every level prior to this year. His average will take a significant hit if he's called up this season, but I think that will improve over-time by slowly implementing small changes to his swing. His power and OBP numbers should still be of some value to the team.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 6, 2010 -> 10:05 AM) The problem is no team is going to give their top prospect for a set up guy, and if you're going to their 7th or 8th prospect or some obscure A ball player, who cares. Why are these the only two options? If a team has a strong farm system, what's wrong with their 2nd or 3rd best prospect plus another guy in the top 10? To be honest, I think a team with a need in their bullpen would give up a ton for Thornton. He's one of the best relievers in the game and can just flat out dominate. In the post-season, I think his value would be incredible, even as a setup man.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Jun 6, 2010 -> 01:32 AM) Depending on the return...why on earth would these guys be on your untouchable list?!?!? I don't consider these guys untouchable. I just don't think you'd get anything of value for them this year. Like I said, I'd rather hold onto them for another season and see what you got with them. Also, we are going to have to keep a couple guys as the starting point for the lineup. Again, the guys I'd hold on to are Rios, Beckham, Quentin and Ramirez. I'd use Pierre and Teahen (assuming you can't move their contracts) as our temporary LF and 3B until Mitchell/Danks and Morel are ready. That leaves 1B, C and DH/RF to fill. I'd make sure to get a serious left-handed power bat for the middle of the order that can play 1B or RF via trade or free agency. I'd probably fill one spot with Viciedo and possibly C with Flowers depending on his turnaround. If not, I'd get a one year stopgap. Pierre LF Beckham 2B Rios CF Free Agent RF Quentin DH Viciedo 1B Ramirez SS Teahen 3B Flowers C I know that lineup is ugly, but we are going to have to add some youth to it in order to cut payroll. I think Viciedo and Flowers are the only guys on the offensive side with a shot of being ready at the beginning of 2011.

If we want any chance of competing in 2011, I'd keep the following players, baring any crazy offers: Peavy Buerhle Danks Floyd Santos Pena Rios Beckham Quentin Ramirez Regardless of the results this season, I still think our rotation (with the addition of Hudson) can be a serious asset for 2011. Plus I don't think we'll get much at all for any of these guys (except Danks who's an automatic keeper) and I don't think that freed salary space will be of much value for us after this diaster of a season. The bullpen is going to need to be addressed, but I'd like to keep Santos and Pena as the starting point. I'd also make my best effort to get a ransom for Thornton, but if that offer isn't out there, I make him my closer for the rest of the season. As for the offense, there is no way in hell you trade Rios. The guy is locked up long-term to a reasonable contract and is the only guy you can really count on to be a productive middle of the lineup hitter. Beckham is also an untouchable. I'd also give Quentin and Ramirez another season before deciding what to do with them. I don't see us losing much value by waiting. Therefore, the guys I would focus on trading would be Putz, Jenks, Garcia, Konerko, A.J. and Jones (and Thornton depending on the return). I don't think anyone else would get us much of anything in return, but obviously I'd be willing to part with some of the other guys if someone wanted them.