Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2011 -> 09:34 AM) Why would the guy take a paycut if he could go to arbitration and probably get a raise? At very least he would have gotten his last annual salary. There are plenty of comps out there he could have used in a hearing. There is no way he would have gotten a raise. Frasor made $3.5 million last year, which is already on the high-end for an average right-handed setup man. He didn't have a great season in 2011 and is already 34 years old. IMO, the Sox would have had the upper hand in abritration. I honestly think a $3 million arbitration offer would have won if Frasor seeked a raise, so worst case scenario is he's back at $3.5. Best case scenario he's back at $3.0 million. Either way, it's cheaper than his $3.75 million option.

The problem with Frasor was picking up the option. There was just no reason to do so. We should have just offered him arbitration and then tried to negotiate 1 year deal at like $2.5 million. I'm guessing he would have accepted less to stay in Chicago since he's from here, but if not, he would not have gotten much more in arbitration after the year he had last year and the prices relievers have been going for this offseason. And while I think Frasor will be solid for us next year, if he rejected arbitration he could have been replaced fairly easily in free agency. Picking up that option never made sense to me.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 24, 2011 -> 12:54 PM) Viciedo=Bobby Bonilla Forget the Vladimir Guerrero comparisons, a HOF career is pretty unlikely. We don't need him to have a HOF career, we just need him to be an all-star type talent and legit #3 or #4 hitter. He's more than capable of that, and considering we have only one other player in the entire system that even has that potential (Thompson, who's a huge longshot), we are not at liberty to trade Viciedo for pitching. I know offense is easier to fill, but we still need have to have some cost-controlled players to build the lineup around. As for Cespedes, he makes perect sense for us, given his immense potential and the lack of talent in our system. I understand that a lot of people want to give De Aza a chance as an everyday player, and I'm in that camp, but you don't pass on a player like Cespedes because of him. De Aza would still get a ton of playing time as our fourth outfielder given that all three regulars would be right-handed. Right now, our focus should be on adding young talent that can help us win two to three years from now. Cespedes fits that bill perfectly.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 24, 2011 -> 09:41 AM) AAARRRRGHHHHHHH!!! Cooper did say earlier this offseason that he thinks Stewart's long term role is in the bullpen. But even if that's true, it's crazy to start him in the pen this year. Even as a reliever, he'd benefit from starting in AAA and piling up innings, in terms of getting practice on his offspeed stuff. Furthermore, if there's a 10% chance he turns into a successful starter, a starter is so much more valuable than a reliever it's silly to give that away without at least trying. You move him back to the pen for a year, that's it, he's never leaving the pen again. Yeah, I agree completely. Stewart should start the season in AAA and continue to develop as a starter. With Reed, Crain & Frasor, we only need one or two more right-handed relievers. We have several options in-house already and maybe they'll bring in another guy or two on minor league deals. I'm not too worried about those last couple spots. There are a couple of much bigger question marks that will dictate our season.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 10:26 PM) J4L is out of his mind at times but comparing the Nats situation to the Sox situation is just as insane. I'm not comparing our situations, I'm just trying to make a point. We essentially had the same record as the Nationals last year, but their outlook looks so much better than ours? We both have players at the major league level that we can expect to produce more in 2012, so the reason must come down to their stud prospects. I'm not denying that their system blows ours out of the water, I'm simply calling J4L out for once again assuming that other teams' prospects will all develop into stars. He constantly makes comments about how all these s***ty teams are going to be amazing in a few years. This is him overrating prospects, which he just said he doesn't do. Answer me this, what's so fascinating about the Nationals' major league roster? Outside of Zimmerman, I don't see much on offense. Ramos looks like he'll be a solid catcher, but I don't think he'll be a star. Morse is not going to repeat his numbers next year. Werth was a huge waste of money. I already acknowledged they have some interesting pitching, but is that really enough to overcome the Phillies, Braves, and Marlins?

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 03:44 PM) I'm always accused of overvaluing/overrating prospects. Then one of these 3 or 4 for 1 deals happen and everybody here says the team giving up multiple prospects is nuts. I love this for the Nationals. You now have a 1-2-3 that is as good as any in the NL sans Philly. Harper will be up next year. Rendon shouldn't take too long. The Nationals are coming for everyone soon. Lol...you are ridiculous and you continue to overrate prospects. The Nationals won 1 more game than the White Sox last year. You haven't shut up about how bad the Sox are and how we have no chance, but now the big, bad Nationals are coming for everyone in one of the f***est toughest divisions in baseball. Obviously their pitching will be a lot better with Strasburg back for a full season and the addition of Gio (although he'll regress outside of Oakland), but their offense still sucks IMO. So basically you're assuming prospects like Harper and Rendon will develop into stars and lead the Nationals into the promiseland despite having to overcome three teams that are currently better at the moment. I don't see it happening, but I'm not surprised you do.

I don't get why everyone thinks this extension is probably the result of KW not liking the offers he was getting for Danks. Why is it so hard to believe that KW wanted to extend Danks this whole time but Danks had simply expresses no interest until now? If I had to guess, the trade talks got to Danks and he decided he was happy here. Either his agent went to KW or KW came to him and told he was close to dealing him if he wouldn't agree to extension. Extending Danks has always made the most sense for this club regardless of the direction we are heading. He's a young, quality left-hander who can be the anchor of a young rotation. He's definitely no ace but he still has the potential to be a damn good #2 starter. We now have one of our top of the rotation spots filled for the next five years, with a lefty no less. That makes the rebuilding effort that much easier. If you believe in Sale, then we only have three spots to fill long-term. Between Humber, our existing minor league talent, and any prospects we bring in by trading Floyd, Quentin, and Thornton, I think that's very doable. However, in two years if we're still struggling to fill those spots, we now have a 29 left-handed starter with three years left on his deal that we can use to get a ton of young talent, much more than than we would have gotten now. Either way, this deal seems like a win-win for the Sox.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 04:18 PM) Ick. Lol...about a year ago you were trying to convince everyone that Danks could get close to Sabathia money once he hit the market. Now a 5 year/$65 million extension upsets you? Did one bad year really swing things that much for you?

Resigning Danks to a five year deal is proof we're not going with a full rebuild. We now have two left-handed starters to anchor the staff for the next five years. KW's immediate goal needs to be identifying and/or acquiring the other three future starters. If he can use Floyd, Thornton, and Quentin to get one or two more SP prospects that he has confidence in, then we might not be in terrible shape pitching-wise. Clearly KW thinks the world of Molina if he was one of his targets. Humber should at least be a quality #5 starter with the potential for more and he's under control for several more years. If we can add a couple more good prospects this off-season to the Axelrod/Stewart/Petricka/Santiago mix, I think we could reasonably expect one guy to develop into a solid starter. Obviously there are several big "ifs" here, but the long-term SP outlook would be a lot better than it was just a few months ago. I love this deal for the Sox, but this can't prevent us from moving some of the other guys that need to be moved, especially Floyd. We still desperately need to add young talent to this organization.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 12:40 PM) Just off of memory, I think a whole lot of people saw that coming. I guess I don't remember the rumors or at least anyone taking them very seriously. All I remember was the cost for Viceido was going to be significant and we had never spent anything near the rumored costs on an amateur international free agent. The move was really unprecented for us, so I'm shocked that many people saw it coming, but I easily could be wrong here.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 12:30 PM) The reason I got confused because given away means for nothing.. yes for best return possible! Same here but now it makes sense. I'm not expecting much for Quentin at this point, but we'll definitely be able to get something for him.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 12:27 PM) Unless guys like Alexei are doing the hard sell on him, I would imagine it is a long shot indeed. But who saw the Viciedo signing coming? If the scouting reports are accurate and his age is legit, he seems like the type of talent KW would obsess over. I could see KW making a big offer for him, but one that would force Cespedes to leave some money on the table if he really wanted to play with Dayan and Alexei. Obviously a long-shot but there is some logic here, at least from KW's perspective.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 12:26 PM) He ought to be given away anyway. Why??

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 20, 2011 -> 11:41 PM) That's why I said for now. The Rangers, along with the Rays and Phillies, are the premier organizations in baseball. So if they feel confident in investing such a hefty sum towards a pitcher, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Confident or desperate? I think it's much more likely they're pressing trying to replace CJ Wilson than they simply think Darvish is a good investment. I have no idea how Darvish will work out, but I think he should be viewed differently than other Japanese pitchers due to his mixed ethnic background and larger frame. Having said that, he's still victim of the Japanese posting system and I don't see how there's any way he meets or exceeds the value of his contract once you factor in that $50 million posting fee.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 20, 2011 -> 11:41 PM) That's why I said for now. The Rangers, along with the Rays and Phillies, are the premier organizations in baseball. So if they feel confident in investing such a hefty sum towards a pitcher, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Confident or desperate? I think it's much more likely they're pressing trying to replace CJ Wilson than they simply think Darvish is a good investment. I have no idea how Darvish will work out, but I think he should be viewed differently than other Japanese pitchers due to his mixed ethnic background and larger frame. Having said that, he's still victim of the Japanese posting system and I don't see how there's any way he meets or exceeds the value of his contract once you factor in that $50 million posting fee.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 20, 2011 -> 10:07 PM) Would have to guess they're going to wait and see how things play out with Viciedo and Aroldis Chapman before they invest $30+ million in another Latin American player. We really don't need another outfielder right now, unless he's a pure centerfielder and true leadoff hitter. And those guys have been elusive for CF ever since he became the GM. Aroldis Chapman? WTF? How the hell would he affect us?

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 19, 2011 -> 11:38 PM) I hate the idea of trying only to be the least bad team in the division. It's how we've been operating for a while and it isn't working. I find this statement laughable. As bad as the results have been of late, we've usually been one of the best team on paper prior to the start of each season with a decent chance of winning the division. For f***'s sake, KW has practically crippled our future by completely focusing on winning now.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 19, 2011 -> 11:11 PM) It's really not about money, though. If they want Danks badly enough, they'll make a play for him (and more than likely get him) in FA without having to give up any of their prized prospects. And that's only if they can't nab Cole Hamels. No offense, but you act like the 2012 season is irrelevant to the Yankees. They want to win a championship next year and I'm sure they realize they need to add another starter if they want a decent chance of that. With few attractive options left in free agency, it's very likely they'll have to trade some of their prized prospects to fill that need. Teams like the Yankees very rarely choose to keep their prospects rather than maximize the chance of the major league team winning. If the deals are right, they'll try to win now and worry about their future later. I'm not saying Danks will be the guy they trade for, but if any team is going to take a chance on a rental it would be the Yankees, since they'd at least have the resources to extend him unlike a team like say the Reds. By the way, your Pokemon-like obsession with prospects is bringing back bad memories of Ron Schueler. All those prospects he refused to trade that could have been used to help the major league team. What a f***ing shame. I doubt Brian Cashman would be so foolish.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 19, 2011 -> 10:12 PM) With the Rangers getting Yu, look for Toronto to go after Gio. Garza is a serious option too as AA likes that he's pitched successfully in the AL East already. It seems to me that the Yankees and Red Sox are the two remaining teams that are most likely to be interested in Danks and or Floyd. With the Rangers out of the running, we really got to hope we can make a deal with the Yankees. I think they'd be more likely to acquire a guy on a 1 year deal than most teams, simply because they have the resources necessary to resign such a player if they so choose.

If the Sox don't make a move in the next week or so, I'm going to start getting nervous. We have three pieces that should be moved before the start of the season and a couple more that might make sense to move now as well. Still having all these players by the start of January will eat away some of our leverage as teams will know we need to move salary.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 07:17 PM) Here you go with the #18 prospect again. Give it up. Give what up? Are you saying he wasn't going to be ranked #18 in the Blue Jays' 2012 prospect list by Baseball America? Several other people also heard Jim Callis say this. But please ignore this point and pretend that he's some elite prospect. I'm sure it makes the immediate rebuilding process that much easier in your eyes.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 06:50 PM) I think the vitriol is a bit harsh in here, but I guess the day Mark leaves would be the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't see this rebuild being as daunting as many of you think...have you seen the production we've been getting out of some of the pieces we're talking about moving? It's not as though that kind of production is impossible to replace. I've felt like the last 2-3 years the White Sox have been heavy on name players and light on production. You don't think the rebuilding will be daunting? We just traded for the Blue Jays' #18 prospect and he immediately became our #2 prospect. That's how bad our minor league system is. While our drafting has been better in recent years, it will take several strong drafts to replenish the system and the new CBA isn't going to make that any easier for us. I don't care how much production you think we'll be giving up, which is a lot more than you're giving credit for, we simply don't have the talent to replace most of it. If we don't hit on most the prospects we acquire and most of our young players on the major leage roster don't develop into solid regulars, we are going to be in serious f***ing trouble. Rebuilding may be the right decision, but let's not kid ourselves, it's most likely going to be a long and painful process.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 06:39 PM) It's insane that KW is being allowed to clean up the mess he created. Especially when you have a well regarded GM prospect ready to step-in. There's got to be more than meets the eye. For f***'s sake, even KW acknowledged how s***ty job he's done by offering to step down. I just can't believe Reinsdorf would really give KW another 4-5 years, because that's how long it will take to truly evaluate how well he's handled the rebuilding process.

I honestly think the plan is in motion for KW to be promoted to a President position in 2-3 years with Hahn taking over as GM thereafter. Not saying I agree with it, but maybe Reinsdorf is trying to protect Hahn by forcing KW to be the guy making all these unpopular moves. Allow the organization a couple years to recover before handing the official reigns over to Hahn. Obviously he'll be heavily in all the decision-making in the meantime, but he won't have to be the guy who "traded everyone away and allowed Buerhle to leave".

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 08:52 AM) Haul for Gio will be very nice and more than Danks. Lots of action on him right now. Loser of Gio derby calls KW back. Danks doesn't move until after Gio. So who is the next to go if Floyd/Danks are on hold? I'm going with Thornton as I don't see his market getting much better by waiting. Quentin might become more attractive for teams that miss out on a big bat.