Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 08:19 AM) How can you dislike a trade the day after it happens? I hated the Ray Durham trade the second it happened and I'm sure many felt the same way about the Jackson/Hudson.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 07:45 AM) Was #18 last year. Callis said he was working on the 2012 list and Molina was going to be #18.

God our minor league system sucks. We really need a good chunk of Beckham, Viciedo, Morel, Flowers, De Aza, Sale, & Stewart to prove themselves as legitimate regulars/starters or else this is going to be a long f***ing rebuilding process. As for the top 10, Saladino should be in the top five. I wouldn't be surprised if some random prospect like Carlos Sanchez made it. The end of that list is going to be a joke.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 06:38 PM) The more I think about this trade, the more I feel like KW might have been too focused on Molina and could have gotten a lot more from one of these other teams looking to acquire a closer without having to spend a lot of money (ie: Reds). Exactly. KW essentially said he asked about Molina and that they wanted Santos. To me, it doesn't sound like KW ever truly shopped Santos. If that's the case, then I think it's more than fair to question if KW really got the most he possibly could. I'm not saying this trade won't work out just fine, but I feel that might have been able to get more talent if we were open to prospects outside this supposed "short list". Although I will admit I have a lot more confidence in Molina developing into a major league starter than another prospect of similar status, since KW & Paddy clearly have done their homework on the kid.

If we're rebuilding, trading Beckham right now is f***ing stupid. His offense only needs to improve a little bit for him to become an above-average 2B. I just despise the idea of dealing Beckham while his value is so low when we have no plans of competing next year.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 05:57 PM) Who is #1? Reed.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:23 PM) Most top prospects lists (Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus) have yet to be released. Molina's status has gone up considerably over the last year. That #18 ranking is probably from some list over a year ago. Minor League Ball, another prospect-centric site, has Molina ranked #2 in their system. http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/11/30/...spects-for-2012 The #18 ranking was for BA's yet-to-be released 2012 Prospect Handbook. I'm 100% certain of this. Right now, he's our #2 prospect per Callis.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:18 PM) That would be awful. The closer should be Reed come April. He destroyed the minor leagues. Nothing left for him to prove. No, the closer should be Crain. See if he can handle the role and if he does well, then you can move him at the deadline for something of value. If not, then give Reed the job.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 01:15 PM) Who was it that said trading Santos would send a negative message to players in the future looking to sign extensions here? lol. I said that and still stand by that, but nothing we can do about it now. If we actually commit to a legitimate rebuilding then it won't look as bad IMO.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 01:05 PM) It isn't right. It was last year's ranking. BA hasn't done 2012 for the Jays yet. Sickels didn't have him on his top 20 last year, and he moved all the way to number 2 for 2012. I may have misheard the #, but he was talking about the Blue Jays' yet-to-be published 2012 top 30 prospects. He mentioned Molina would be the Sox's #2 and noted the difference between the two systems. Trust me, I hope I misheard him.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 12:27 PM) Wow, that is an awful return. Yeah, I agree. Callis was just on 670 and said this guy was scheduled to be the Blue Jays #18 prospect. Now I know the Jays have a deep system but still. I think we could have gotten a lot more for Santos had put on the market and didn't just give up for a guy we targeted. Plus I honestly felt like his value would have been higher at the deadline, but oh well. At least this prospect seems less likely to bust if KW targeted him and this Paddy supported the move.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 06:48 PM) I was responding to his statement that anyone who says they'll support the team if they suck is full of s***. That's not what I said at all. I know most people here will continue to go to some games and support the team just like I will. However, I find it hilarious that some people think they'd go to more games for a s***ty team than a .500 team. I'm very confident that almost every Sox fan would get tired of losing after a couple of games and decide it's better to just watch most games on TV where it's free and can be turned off when things quickly turn to s***.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 06:36 PM) I paid for a grand total of 0 tickets last season. If they do a true rebuild, I'll be back to my usual 15-20 whether or not you believe it. If you paid for 0 tickets in a year where we had a record-setting payroll and appeared to be serious contenders to start the season, then I seriously doubt you'll go to 15-20 games when we suck major balls. Having said that, there's exceptions to every rule.

First off, everyone here saying they'd go to more games if we rebuild is either full of s*** or goes to so few games it doesn't even matter. Almost every single fan, casual or hardcore, will go to less games and that's completely normal during a rebuilding process. But please don't act like you're going to support a 90-100 loss team the same financially as you would a .500 team just because you think the front office is making the right decision to rebuild. Just watch how many season ticket holders we'll lose if we do. Speaking of which, trying to maintain (and normally trying to grow) your season ticket base is of the utmost importance for every MLB franchise. Having a certain amount of fixed revenue is critical to have a well-run organization and the season ticket holders provide a significant chunk of that. Therefore, keeping them happy is extremely important, because once you lose them it's hard to get them back. If that means keeping a fan favorite and pretending to be more competitive then we're really going to be then so be it. As long as that player is not blocking a prospect (which he wouldn't be, since we have few SP prospects) and the resources used to him retain don't need to be allocated to some obvious area (which should have been the draft if not for the new CBA) what do we have to lose? Cutting payroll is going to happen if we rebuild, but people forget that there is a certain payroll level that is sustainable no matter how competitive we are. If you can fit Buehrle into that payroll figure, then why the hell not? He'll reduce some stress on our young relievers by eating innings, he can be a great mentor to the young starting pitchers, and he'll keep a lot of season ticket holders happy. So once again, for all the people that think resigning Buerhle would be stupid if we rebuild, what would you rather do with that $13 million a year? Because right now all I'm seeing people suggesting cut excess payroll to simply line Reinsdorf's pockets.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 08:43 AM) The White Sox aren't willing to shell out the money, nor should they be. If you plan on moving Danks and Floyd, then why the f*** not?

Sounds like the Marlins only have room for one more big salary and that Pujols is their #1 target. I really hope their efforts on that front cost them Buerhle.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 03:38 PM) How are they no longer options? lol. s*** is a little different now. But they're still there. The point is you can no longer switch major league resources to the draft and international free agents like the Pirates and Royals have been doing. So yes, the draft and international free agency is still there and is definitely important, but they're already budgeted for and that budget can no longer be significantly increased. So again, if we can support a certain payroll while we rebuild, what would suggest spending that money on?

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 03:15 PM) Like Milkman said, if you're going to completely gut the team (I hope they do), it makes little to no sense to throw $14-$16 million at Mark when you're not going to be competing for a damn thing for at least 2-3 years. Well, other than the sentimental bulls***. Which is no way to run a successful franchise. So let's say we are guaranteed to break even with a $70 million payroll no matter how competitive we are. You still think it would be stupid to resign Buerhle to a 3 year deal? What else are you going to spend this money on? I don't see a problem having a guy who will eat 200 innings and be a positive clubhouse leader and mentor to all the young pitchers we'll certaintly have. What would you suggest we spend this money on? Obviously the draft and international free agents are no longer options. I'm really curious to hear what you'd do.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 02:10 PM) With the numbers of teams in on him, we have to be nearing 4 year territory soon. I'm starting to wonder if he actually prefers a 3 year deal. I would have to think there would be at least one team that would desperate enough to go 5 years. He may prefer having full control (no trade clause) and flexibity (shorter contract) over his future than simply the most years/money.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 02:38 PM) It makes no sense for the Sox to trade upwards of 3 or 4 guys in order to gather the funds to re-sign Buehrle. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face. If they trade all of those guys, it's almost certainly a rebuild. So, what's the point of bring Buehrle back in that scenario? Because we don't want to see him in another uniform? That's childish. You trade the 3 to 4 guys because you can receive something of value for them. Even if we're going to do a semi-rebuild, I see absolutely no problem bringing Buerhle back on a 3 year deal. I doubt he'd be willing to come back in that situation, but what would we have to lose?

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 2, 2011 -> 11:47 AM) Greg, I can't believe anyone would want one of the most popular players in Sox history to go play for the Cubs. He's got to be a troll. There is simply no other explanation for some of his comments.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 2, 2011 -> 11:25 AM) Ugh. That team might be able to compete if everything goes right, but you have to move Danks now if he's unwilling to agree to an extension. We desperately need to get maximum value out of him, even if that hurts our chances of competing next year (based on what other moves we make). Some team will be willing to pay a steep price for him right now. I wish it weren't the case, but we really need to add young talent and he's our best chip.

So let me get this straight, 3 years is the starting point for Buerhle, which is probably the exact amount of years the Sox would want to lock him up for. He wants a no-trade clause, which he'd automatically get by resigning with us. He's also willing to let the Sox match any offers he receives. Cowley basically shows we should be somewhat optimistic, but then says things don't look good. His bias against Williams is beyond pathetic. Glad to hear that Williams is asking for the moon for Danks and talking to every team with an open ear. He's our most valuable trading chip and it sounds like KW is handling this situation the right way. BTW, when is the Rule 5 draft? I always thought the idea of trading both Danks brothers in the same deal was far-fetched, but with Jordan off the 40 man roster and John likely to go, maybe there would be some logic to it. He obviously wouldn't be much more than a throw-in, but he'd offer the acquiring team a slightly better chance at retaining John long-term.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 1, 2011 -> 07:34 AM) Honestly. I think a lot of people here are going to be disappointed with the returns the Sox get in deals. IMO, very few people are expecting great returns, so I think it's more likely people will be pleasantly surprised. I'd like to hear why you think our returns are going to be so bad. Even with one year left before free agency, I think Danks should be able to land a very good, near major league prospect like Alonso. Do you disagree? Not like there are many options in free agency if you're desperate for SP and don't have $50 million plus to spend.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Nov 29, 2011 -> 05:26 PM) Point about his arm not having mileage on it. I just think that as empty as the Sox farm system is, it'd be best to cash in the Santos chips now rather than later. If he becomes an elite closer next year, which I think is definitely possible, his value will be even higher. I'm willing to take that gamble if I'm KW. I don't see much downside short of a freak injury.