Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 6, 2013 -> 10:42 AM) And guess which one has demonstrated he has a clue at the plate. And can make contact regularly. Oh, wait, that's definitely NOT Viciedo. MLB Averages: O-Swing = 31.0%, Z-Swing = 65.5%, Z-Contact = 87.0% Anthony Rizzo: O-Swing = 30.0%, Z-Swing = 66.5%, Z-Contact = 89.1% (102 wRC+) Dayan Viciedo: O-Swing = 42.5%, Z-Swing = 73.5%, Z-Contact = 82.9% (96 wRC+) One of those lines looks like a Major League hitter, the other looks like a minor leaguer being challenged by stuff way above his skill level. Who is arguing that Viciedo has demonstrated better plate discipline than Rizzo? I know Rizzo easily wins in that department and always will. Doesn't change the fact that their offensive production hasn't been much different over the course of their young careers.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 6, 2013 -> 10:24 AM) Just from the comments in the last 24 hours....but then, look what happened with the A's shocking the world and winning the bidding for Cespedes. Still, I would put the odds at 5-10% but I would love to be pleasantly surprised and see that's we posted the highest bid. But I haven't seen any comments that state specific dollar amounts, so I'm not sure what these "insiders" are basing their speculation on. I personally think that everything out there right now is misdirection. Only Abreu and his agents really know what everyone team offered. Hopefully he makes a decision soon to give us all something to talk about.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 6, 2013 -> 09:48 AM) And it looks like we're on the outside looking in as far as the Abreu deal goes. I'm not sure how anyone would know where teams stand other than Abreu's agent. It's a blind bid process and I'm pretty sure bids were all due at roughly the same time. This thing is ultimately going to come to the money, with other factors like Cuban presence (players or fanbase), weather, and ability to win serving as possible tie-breakers. So if the Sox weren't planning on making an offer in the $50 to $60M range, they never had a chance to begin with. Will be interesting to see what he ends up getting and where the Sox came in (assuming that figure leaks).

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 5, 2013 -> 05:37 PM) I wouldn't be too enthused about the sealed bid process if I were the Sox. Why? Not disagreeing, just trying to understand your point.

I wouldn't believe any rumors regarding Abreu. Teams aren't going to reveal their hands, so anything public outside of general interest is misdirection IMO.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 4, 2013 -> 10:18 PM) For perspective sake, Rizzo has 24 less MLB PAs than Dayan Viciedo. (1235 vs 1211) And guess who has the higher career OPS yet is considered a bust.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Oct 4, 2013 -> 06:15 PM) You are right but those players are going to make up the next great core of the Cubs going forward. And Anthony Rizzo is going to be fine, it was his first full year in the bigs. Lol...of course they will as prospects never flop!

I laugh when I see posts complimenting Theo for all he's accomplished. All he's done is purposely lose to accumulate high draft picks and large international bonus pools, which any GM can do with ease if they so desire. I'm sorry, but until some of these prospects turn into productive major leaguers, he's really accomplished nothing IMO. I haven't really seen any creativity or risk-taking to accelerate their small market approach to rebuilding with the exception of the Edwin Jackson signing, which has been a huge diaster so far. Not very impressed with what I've seen so far out of Theo.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Oct 3, 2013 -> 06:11 AM) Abreu would be great, and I think the Sox have a chance there. How much of a chance? Better than Lloyd's chances with Mary (Samsonite) Swanson, but not dramatically so. If they overpay for him, there's no money for a catcher (McCann). I like AJ, but he's not a solution, not even for one year. And Choo is going to get paid, big time. The Sox won't be signing him. Affording both Abreu & McCann shouldn't be much of a concern. We should have plenty of money to work with, so it's really just a question whether these are the guys you want to spend your money on and whether or not you're comfortable with the years it will take to have them to sign with you. I honestly believe Hahn will target both of these guys, but only if the dollars and years make sense. Hopefully something happens on the Abreu front soon, because signing him before the rest of free agency begins would allow Hahn to be a little more aggressive filling other holes.

I'm glad he at least confined Micah is a legit 80 in the speed department. I know there was some uncertainty on just how fast he actually is.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 11:26 AM) I think CF is the biggest need. Gregory Polanco is a player I'd like for them to be targeting. How would you ever get him? I doubt the Pirates are interested in our pitching.

I think everyone here has different definition of rebuilding than me. Rebuilding is starting over from scratch, by dumping all your high salary players and going young pretty much across the board. You basically don't plan on being competitive for 4 to 5 years so you can accumulate high draft picks and let your prospects develop gradually. Also, just because you lose 99 games does not mean you're rebuilding, it just means your team currently sucks. IMO, Hahn will go into 2014 attempting to compete, even if our chances to make the playoffs are extremely small. I'm guessing he feels it's at least a two year job to fix this offense and become a respectable team. That's retooling to me, not rebuilding.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 09:04 PM) I am going to start watching that or Prison Break next. Those shows I always hear brought up in GOAT discussions (well only a season for one Prison Break). Prison Break was very enjoyable in its first season and funny bad thereafter, but it should never be brought up in GOAT discussions. The Shield is a legit contender for the GOAT and has one best finales ever IMO. Definitely watch that next if you're picking between the two.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 08:15 PM) It does not have to be a star prospect for it to work. Using Upton as the example the question should be, is the prospect(s) they were to receive in return for eating half of Upton's contract the best way to spend $30M in payroll over the next 2 seasons to improve the team long-term? This has to be the dumbest thing I've ever read in my life. Spending $30M to acquire anything less than an elite prospext is buttf***ing stupid because 1) 99.5% prospects are far from guarantees & 2) even if that prospect makes it the pros you'll still have to pay him a f***ton of money if he's worth a damn on top of the $30M you spent to get him. So the best case scenario is you paid $30M for a guys' pre-arb years and basically lost all the surplus value a prospect normally provides if they're successful. More likely you threw away $30M on a prospect who doesn't pan out. Either way, nothing is gained by making such a move. Just all-around a completely stupid idea and if you're going to throw significant money away on a B prospect then you might as well go full rebuild and spend like Astros have recently while saving your money for a time when you're actually trying to be competitive.

At least we know Marty isn't a troll, he's just Dan Berstein.

I think it's clear by that article we're going hard after McCann/Salty in free agency or will be looking for a catcher via trade. Doesn't sound like Phegley showed enough to be handed the starting job in Hahn's eyes.

QUOTE (JoshPR @ Sep 29, 2013 -> 09:40 AM) You said it yourself, the cuban league... Different type of baseball Listen, I'm not saying he's going to be the Cuban god of walks. I just think that Cuba is a totally different animal than the rest of Latin America and to lump a 26 year old Cuban with other free-swinging Latin American prospects is a bit foolish.

QUOTE (JoshPR @ Sep 29, 2013 -> 06:52 AM) Do we really want another free swinging Latino player? Here's his slash line from Cuba this year: 382/.535/.735. What's screams out "free swinging Latino player" there?

Strange that Hawk is the one dropping this news, in game 161 of the season no less, but it's definitely the right move IMO. I think a lot of people on this site, myself included, weren't fans of the hire to begin with when Manto explained his views on hitting. I don't expect a lot of people to be sad to see him go.

I believe Castro is out of options, so he either makes the team out of spring training or he's gone (assuming his velocity is back to normal).

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 28, 2013 -> 08:40 AM) It wasn't the same group of guys. You mentioned 2 of the biggest reasons for the offense last year and their replacements were garbage. Konerko hasn't been the same. Viciedo got hurt. Beckham got hurt. Who are the players with a dropoff you can reasonably say with a different hitting coach, things would be a lot better? We went through this several years with Walker. According to a lot of people on this board, he was the reason the Sox didn't win.he leaves and it's happy time here. The Braves hire him and this board laughs. How can they be so dumb? Their offense is fine. The Sox offense will be fine once they acquire better hitters. If they don't, you are just going to want the next guy to get fired. It seems from Hahn's comments a coach or 2 is going to go. I think Boston is in charge of OF defense and baserunning. It seems he will be a sacrificial lamb. They could have a decent reason to fire Manto. I just think basing it on the results of the garbage you gave him to work with would be ridiculous. It would be like saying Bo Porter is by far the worst manager in baseball because his team lost the most games. As I said previously, I don't know if anything would be different under a new hitting coach, but I don't see how things could get any worse. When you finish second to last in all of baseball in runs scored, you have to try something new, especially when none of your young guys are progressing. Let me ask you this, what's the downside in firing Manto?

QUOTE (oldsox @ Sep 28, 2013 -> 07:11 AM) I follow the Rockies very closely, Stan, and I gotta ask if you have seen something about their trading Cargo. Not that I wouldn't like to have him with the Sox, even though I am very familiar with his shortcomings. Any trade talk would start with Sale and include other pitchers as well. Sale > Cargo, especially when you factor in the contracts.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 28, 2013 -> 07:20 AM) If the fire Manto because they have a philosophical difference moving forward, it makes sense, but if you are going to fire him based on the 2013 stats, there is not a hitting coach past, present or future that would have been able to keep their job with this bunch. It would be like firing a professor because he couldn't get a guy with the intelligence of a 6 year old to pass organic chemisty. Then how did the same group of guys, minus A.J. & Youk, finish 7th in runs scored the year before?

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 28, 2013 -> 01:05 AM) What has Manto done to get canned? Let's see, he oversaw an offense that will finish 29th in runs scored this year despite playing half of their games at the Cell. The vast majority of the offense regressed from 2012 and none of the young guys made any progress. I'm not sure what there is to argue here. In any real world profession a guy would be fired with those kind of results. And honestly, I don't blame this offense's incompetence on Manto, but clearly he wasn't doing anything to help us this year. Bring in a new hitting coach and hope he can connect with a guy or two. That alone would be a huge upgrade.

I'm fine with Ventura getting one more shot. We took him off the street and made him a major league manager. A learning curve should have always been expected. I'd like to see some serious growth in year 3 or else consider other options prior to 2015. Now, I'd like to see Manto get canned and quite frankly I expect it to happen. I'm sure plenty of people will claim hitting coaches don't matter and to that I will say that firing him has no downside then. Clearly the offense was an epic disaster on all levels and whatever Manto was doing probably wasn't helping, so bring some fresh blood in and hope they can connect with a hitter or two.