Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 27, 2013 -> 12:24 PM) Yeah I can't think of a ton of major mysteries that they didn't explain by the end of the show. edit: a good read http://www.cracked.com/blog/108-answers-to...ered-questions/ Surely you're not serious? And that article is a joke right? I mean, using "magic" as the answer to any unanswered question is pretty ridiculous.

I love Breaking Bad, top 3 show of all-time IMO, but I'm not sure it's the GOAT. It may feel that way right now, but people need to rewatch other contenders like Sopranos & The Wire before making that claim. I just got through season 3 of Sopranos and it's mind-blowing how good those first three seasons are, probably the best television I've ever seen. Breaking Bad has definitely been more consistent from start to finish, but I'm not sure that outweighs the early greatness of Sopranos. Really tough call which is the better series IMO. And Lost was incredible for a long period of time. The show ultimately failed because they were unable to answer the vast majority of questions they raised and didn't provide a satisfying conclusion, but it did so many other things right that it was extremely enjoyable up until the end. Having said that, I don't think I'd ever rewatch the series because I truly felt cheated by the writers. There was just no payoff in the end and that was something promised to us.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 26, 2013 -> 12:36 PM) The pitching staff's performance was pretty average in the AL. Of course you could make a point the defense will make their overall numbers look not as good as they should have been, and it would be hard to argue, and they dumped Thornton, Peavy and Crain, but they are pretty much in the middle of the pack in most of the big categories. The other parts of the team performed so poorly, even an average-like performance seems spectacular. What are you basing this on? If you're looking at something like runs allowed, then even an average ranking would be incredible given we play half of our games at the Cell. The Sox's staff has definitely better than average this year.

QUOTE (Brian @ Sep 26, 2013 -> 05:06 AM) Wtf with everyone defending Frank. Dude bullies everyone, including women, and someone finally got in his face about it. Looked like he was going to cry after Knight smacked him. Maybe there's something we didn't see but Emily standing up for Frank was a turn off. Frank is the most despicable person in recent Real World/Challenge history. Maybe some people are just afraid of him because he is such a bully. I have no idea why Emily would come to his rescue, she honestly had no reason to get involved. Part of the problem is Frank is bipolar or something and I'm guessing most of his relationships detoriate over time like his friendship with Zach. So while some people may still like him (for now), I'm sure the majority of people hate his f***ing guts and are simply too much of cowards to say something to his face. I can't wait for the next Challenge with him and Knight. Their beef won't die down so quickly.

What the f*** is Knight on? Dude could barely make cohesive sentences and looked like death. At least he slapped/punched Frank in the face. That cocksucker deserves to get his ass kicked.

Swisher is such a douchebag.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 07:02 PM) Again, you insist that they adequately worked on fundamentals, the evidence instead says that the white sox are te first team in nearly 100 years to have the best fielding percentage one year and the worst fielding percentage the next year. I don't get the not working on fundamentals in spring training argument. Our defense has been bad all year, that would be one hell of a spring training carry over effect to explain the majority of the change in fielding percentage between 2012 & 2013.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 03:15 PM) De Aza-consensus he isn't very good, get rid of him Ramirez-consensus, he has to go Gillespie-consensus, not a regular player Dunn-consensus, please retire Konerko-consensus, see Dunn. Garcia-consensus, hope for the future Viciedo-consensus, maybe hope for the future Beckham-consensus, bust, should probably go Phegley-consensus, the Sox need a catcher This is Ventura's line up. The players he has to play with. Just going by Soxtalk's consensus, expecting anything but losses piling up would be insane. Again, why does the offense sucking balls mean that Robin did a good job this year? We all know the talent level on this team, especially on offense, was pretty damn bad and that a poor season would have been the outcome no matter who the manager was. That doesn't mean that Robin didn't contribute to our struggles as well with poor decision-making. Let's hold everyone accountable for their roles in this mess, even if some parties are more responsible than others. While the players are the chief culprits here, Robin does not deserve a free pass IMO.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 10:37 AM) Lou Piniella was known as a great manager before he came to the Cubs. Leo Mazzone was known as a great pitching coach, then he went to Baltimore and then couldn't find a job. Rudy Jaramillo was the hitting guru. I remember reading on this very board that he was such a genius, the Sox needed to hire his "assistant". He then went to the Cubs, and is now unemployed, at least at the major league level. People pin way too much of the results on coaches and managers. They can make a difference, but not a 20-30 game difference. People think Ventura needs to go, yet they also say all these players need to go. If the Sox lost because of the manager, shouldn't they keep the players? If the players are bad, how do you blame the losing on the manager? No manager wins with bad players. No coaches make Cy Young award winners or MVP candidates out of bad players. Why can't we blame both the players and the manager? Why do we have to single out just one party? I've never understood this logic. Clearly when you go from almost making the playoffs to losing nearly 100 games a lot of things went wrong. Let's assign blame to all responsible parties.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Sep 23, 2013 -> 08:24 AM) Is this is a serious question? Why would you get mugged? The "dangerous" Chicago is so overblown. It's only like 3 neighborhoods and it's between gang members. The media lies and says gun violence instead of gang violence and people like you think you can't make it to a Bulls game. Oh boy. Remember, the Bulls had the longest sellout streak in sports despite a guaranteed mugging on the way back to your car. Just part of the price of admission if you want to take your family to see Benny & the gang.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 22, 2013 -> 11:57 PM) An average starter>an excellent reliever. Fixed this for you.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 22, 2013 -> 11:43 PM) Why does Robin all of a sudden want to manage forever? If his stance has completely changed, my guess is he'll sign that multi-year extension if it's offered again this offseason. If we suck defensively and on the basepaths again next year, Robin should be on the hotseat. He probably won't be, though, cause Sox are not going to be in the news much next season if we are out of it in May. My guess is attendance also will take a big hit this time if we suck a second consecutive season. p.s. To those of you who get mad when I bring up how expensive it is to go to a game, the current edition of ESPN the Mag has an article on best/worst franchises. The BEST FRANCHISES currently (Memphis Grizzlies is No. 1) are ones with very cheap season ticket prices and food prices. ESPN said surveys say AFFORDABILITY is huge now with fans. Fans don't want to be robbed at their sports venues. Finally, I'll be at the United Center this year to watch Duke play Kansas in men's college basketball and Kentucky play Michigan State. I have to drive a car to the United Center and not take public transportation. Do you think a.) I'll be mugged or b.) my car will be damaged/stolen? I have to stay a while after the game waiting for a friend who works at the UC. Will I be mugged going back to my vehicle? Thank u for all the answers. Time to put you on the ignore list.

QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Sep 21, 2013 -> 07:40 AM) And Detroit once upon time made enough stuff to win a world war. Its over for Chicago the same way its over for Detroit. The best outcome the city could hope for is not being on the ledge of being unincorporated like could very well still happen to Detroit. Its the city listed on my birth certificate, it is home to me, so while it does bring me some joy to see the liberals fail yet again I just wish it couldve been somewhere else. Expecting a return to former glory for Chicago is going to leave you disappointed. The future of the city is basically North Platte NE mixed with Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee type rot... whole lotta trains, whole lotta vacancy. You have smoked yourself retarded.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 20, 2013 -> 08:52 AM) He also needs to never, or at least almost never, play 1b. How have his numbers been as a DH? I thought someone mentioned he's hit much better for us while playing 1B.

Who is going to be the starter in Cleveland?

QUOTE (ChiSoxFan05 @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 10:10 PM) Sox fans are used to AJ being injured once per 5 years... it would be a tough adjustment seeing McCann on the 15-day DL twice a year. McCann had played in 120+ games for 7 straight years prior to this season. That's pretty damn good for a catcher.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 06:59 PM) You aren't going to win with the 2016 version of McCann if the team doesn't find young position players over the next two years. By the time 2016 rolls around what kind of numbers is McCann going to put up anyway? McCann is 29 years old right now. He'll be 32 at the start of the 2016 season. I didn't realize guys suddenly fell off at 32 years of age. I've got to be honest, if the Sox can get McCann for 4/$60M they should do it without hesitation. Even if he only gives you two years at catcher, I think that would be a good deal for us. We're talking about his age 30 to 33 seasons. I don't see his bat falling apart during that time-frame.

I'm going to ask this question again, but what's going to allow us to compete by 2016? The prospect Marty wants us to buy for $60M? We don't have much offensively in the minors to get excited about or that we can honestly rely on to be ready at that time. The new CBA will definitely help us, but it could take 4 or 5 years before the system is fully replenished if all goes well. The good news is we aren't the Oakland A's and don't need to do a small-market rebuild. We can afford to go out into free agency and attempt to fill some of our offensive needs. Fixing this offense is likely a multi-year project unless some of the younger guys like Garcia, Viciedo, & Semien take that next step. If that happens, we can compete as soon as next year with the right offseason moves. If not, we at least have shored up a couple holes and make it easier to compete in 2015, while our minor league system continues to replenish. If you wait until 2016 to make any major moves, you risk having nothing to spend your money on in free agency and will be relying on a bunch of prospects that may or may not exist to fill the majority of the lineup. And even if those prospects are ready, they may not be productive right away, which means 2016 suddenly becomes 2017 or 2018. I just don't see the logic of throwing away 3 or 4 years of a young, talented, cost-controlled rotation when we have the ability to spend a decent amount of money in free agency. If that's the case, just blow the whole damn thing up. Teams with strong starting pitching should not be treading water, because that pitching likely won't last forever.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 01:00 PM) I hope you are right. A goal should be no deadwight contracts by 2016. What's happening in 2016?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 12:50 PM) If so, you can start him there right now. If not, you have more difficult choices to make. Do we? I wanted to believe in Beckham earlier this year, but he's shown he is what he is. It sucks and maybe he finally figures it out one day (doubtful), but we've done our due diligence with him and I think it's clear he should not be part of the long-term core. Sure, he can be a useful fill-in at 2B for a team with a big hole at the position, but I don't think it would be a hard decision to let him go, not if he's going to make $5M next year. And Ramirez is a solid player, but his lack of OBP and power are part of two major team-wide problems. At some point, we have to move some of these guys if we're going to improve the lineup. Don't get me wrong, Alexei would make a nice #9 hitter on most teams, just not ours. If we could move him and get anything of value (i.e. more than a pure salary dump), I would do that deal in a heartbeat because we already have a replacement in-house and we'd have even more money to upgrade other areas of the team. As for 3B, I think we need to look for a long-term solution there. If we have to trade a young starter, that's the position I'm targeting. I just think Semien is too good of a prospect to use as a fill-in at 3B. I think we pretty much have to open up a middle infield position to improve the offense and get younger.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 09:38 AM) I woulnd't move him to 3rd, but you're right on the use of the "Stop-gap" phrase. He wouldn't be the first guy to figure out hitting at age 27, but he ought to be viewed as a stop-gap right now. He'll be first year arb this offseason, this stretch at the end of the year is a good reason not to extend him. He's been slightly better this year, so offer him arb-1 this year, he gets $2.5 million or so for next year, he goes to ST as the incumbent 2nd baseman, and we play until someone steals the position from him by destroying Charlotte. Gordon was a 1st year arbitration player this year and is making roughly $3M. Next year he's looking at $4.5 to $5M, so you only bring him back if he's your legit starting 2B. That's way too much money for a potential utility infielder if you think someone could realistically overtake him at some point in 2014. I think Hahn will definitely deal one of Ramirez & Bekcham to open up a spot for Semien. Probably the easiest way to improve the team's OBP.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 15, 2013 -> 12:25 PM) What better way to spend $60M over the next two years. They are not going to win anything in 2014 or 2015. Are the mods seriously going to tolerate this nonsense? If he wasn't clearly trolling before, he's obviously all-in now. I get that everyone has a right to an opinion, but this is becoming utterly ridiculous. If someone in baseball actually proposed this idea, they'd be blackballed from the game for life. It's blatant trolling and everyone here knows it.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 05:34 PM) If there was a White Sox catch-all thread, I would have put this there, but....I digress... He just made a really interesting point to a caller who said our drafts every year are a bust.... According to Rick, he said from the 2008-2011 drafts, we lead all of baseball in accumulated WAR of those drafted player while we are DEAD LAST in dollars spent on those drafted player from 2008-1011. Interesting. How much of that accumulated WAR is from Chris Sale and to a lesser extent Daniel Hudson? Two great picks plus Beckham & Reed and I'm guessing that's the bulk of our drafted WAR from those 4 drafts to date. While our drafts have been better in recent years, I bet Sale accounts for +50% of that number, which makes Hahn's fact somewhat misleading. Sure we hit big on one of our picks and experienced quick returns, but let's not over-reward ourselves for that. Our overall drafting and lack of spending (historically) has left plenty to be desired. The new CBA rules really help us going forward though and we should see some significant returns from the 2011 draft next year with Erik Johnson & Marcus Semien.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 02:44 PM) Who here has used WAR? I know Balta is a big advocate but no one in this thread (or at least the last couple pages) have used WAR? While it hasn't been specifically stated, it's definitely been implied by several posters. If we were to add Abreu & McCann to the heart of the order, I think we immedietely become an 80+ win team, while there have been several posts that suggest we'd only be a 70 win team, which seems to be a fair estimate of the incremental WAR those players would provide on top of our expected 63 wins this season. Again, it's not just this thread, but I strongly dislike when people simply add a potential acquisition's WAR to a team's existing record to predict the team's new record. I like WAR and think it's a valuable stat, but baseball isn't that simple and can't be explained by one number. Like I said before, adding McCann & Abreu changes the entire complexion of the offense. IMO, they are worth more to us than the sum of the individual parts.

Can we please stop using WAR as the be-all-end-all? If we add McCann & Abreu, we don't simply add their respective WARs to our 2013 W/L record, we'd be changing the entire complexion of the offense and that would be worth a lot more than the sum of the individual parts.