Chicago White Sox

Why is Ozzie flip flopping Milledge and Lillibridge in the lineup? Millidge lead off last time they both started a game. This scares me quite a bit. I'm actually worried that Ozzie prefers that extra "versatility" from Lillibridge now that he feels like he has to go with a four man bench. I will be so f***ing pissed if Lillibridge somehow makes the team over Millidge.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 25, 2011 -> 06:05 PM) Cordero will open the season as closer. But it's popular opinion that Chapman will take over the roll at some point. As Cordero is not really that good. And he's [Cordero] got a club option for 2012. So unless he's dynamite, the worst-case scenario for Chapman would be he's the full-time closer next year. But I still think that would be an overpay for what they signed him for if he doesn't start. I don't think it's an overpay if he can be a dominant closer, but I do think it's a stupid move to make him a closer unless you're all but certain he won't stay healthy as a starter.

QUOTE (YASNY @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 10:37 PM) Eh, I'm out of this discussion. Playing the race card was as bush league as the actions we have been discussing. Wow, I think your response was pretty "bush league". I made one post about an issue that clearly affects our society in numerous ways. I didn't realize it was absurd to suggest it might be affecting baseball too. I thought this was a message board where adults could talk about sensitive issues? If you didn't want to add to the debate, then why didn't you just ignore my post. I wasn't causing a stink or calling anyone out. There was no reason for a personal attack. Aren't you a mod? I would expect better from someone in your position.

QUOTE (whtsoxfan @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 05:59 PM) In my opinion, the White Sox have better options for utility: Deaza, also sent down, is a lefty, just like Teahen, but adds a speed dimension (base stealer, pinch runner) , better outfielder, and comparable hitting (better BA, similiar OBP, similiar RBIs). Jordan Danks, another lefty, had an impressive spring, as well. Teahen has a much stronger bat than De Aza IMO and makes a better insurance policy in the event of injury. If Dunn goes down, I'd much rather insert Teahen's bat into the lineup than De Aza's.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 06:00 PM) admission: i was excited about this pick. I remember following this draft and being so pissed that Daniel Bard got taken the pick before us. I wanted nothing to do with this guy from the start.

I hate to do this, but I think color plays a factor here. Now, I'm not accusing anyone here of this, but over time you happen to notice a pattern. When a young white player does these acts that have been referred to as showboating, people describe him as "passionate". When a young black player does them, he's called "cocky" or "arrogant" and accused of showboating. Would we really be having this same discussion if the player taking his helmet off after rounding third was Gordon Beckham? I seriously doubt it. Personally, I think people getting worked up over Milledge taking his helmet off is ridiculous. Why don't we want our players to have a little bit of style and attitude to them? It's not like he's trying to be an asshole and rub it in the pitcher's face. It's just something he does. If the pitcher wants to be overly sensitive and take exception to him, that's his choice. I just don't see why any fan would actually be bothered by this.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 22, 2011 -> 05:37 PM) +1 billion. JR and Co. need to get off their damn high-horses when it comes to this stupid policy. You don't get to have a policy when you've got two starters about to become FAs, one who's agent you refuse to deal with, and your top pitching 'Spect is Addison Reed. KW has traded prospect after prospect after prospect over the last few years and the return has been one year of Nick Swisher, two months of a decrepit Ken Griffey Jr., Javy the sequel and Jake Prior. Instead of extending the Mark Teahen's of the world, handing out 3-4year deals to declining or mediocre relievers, overpaying for a 1B during his age 35-37 seasons because he gave you a world series baseball six years ago, spend some f***ing coin on some new scouts and the draft. Instead of signing Crain and Ohman, you would have used which minor leaguers in the bullpen? Instead of signing Konerko, you would have signed which free agent 1B? Or would you have simply used Viciedo? Also, please explain how the moves you're proposing make us better in 2011.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 19, 2011 -> 04:24 PM) I agree with most of what you say here. An ideal farm is one that you can use as a source of talent infusion for the big league team AND be able to have enough left over to supplement that talent through trades to being in proven players wherever you're lacking. Also, KW played no role whatsoever in our #1 ranking going into 2001. He had only been the GM for a few months prior to that. The Royal are a special case. More than likely all of their top 10-15 guys won't pan out. But they appear to be so deep that if even 6-8 of them do they'll still be in pretty good shape. Elite/premium prospects is what everybody wants, especially me. But organizational depth is also important. We have none of either. From KW's bio on whitesox.com: I'm guessing he played a significant role in our #1 ranking. KW has always known talent. Unfortunately, I feel like politics and organizational philosophy affected our ability to build a strong farm system since he became GM. We will never truly know, but something didn't feel right about Duane Shaffer. Maybe KW influenced him to draft guys like Lance Broadway and Kyle McCulloch, but I seriously doubt it. I think Shaffer was a Reinsdorf guy and it was hard for KW to get rid of him. Clearly the draft strategy has completely changed to impact/high potential players since Shaffer was dismissed. Also, he's also had to deal with the stupid "won't go over slot slot cause we respect Bud Selig" policy for years now outside. While that may or may not affected him while he was the farm director, it's definitely had an impact this past decade. The other main thing that's screwed KW is the Dave Wilder fiasco. He destroyed our Latin America operations and we're still trying to recover. How can you build a strong farm system when you're handing major bonuses to marginal talents? I've got to be honest, I think that's been the biggest issue for us. At least with the draft, we've been able to get some mid round steals. What impact Latin players have we developed from start to finish since Magglio Ordonez and Carlos Lee? Unless I'm missing someone totally obvious, the closest thing we may have is Viciedo and I don't know if you can really count him. I honestly believe KW is capable of building a strong system from a talent evaluation standpoint, but his passion for trades will probably prevent it from ever becoming one of the best systems. And I'm completely fine with that. I couldn't stand how Ron Schueler refused to trade his young players for anything, even at the deadline when we clearly needed help. I think if KW is given a couple years, his new draft philosophy and the gradual improvement of our Latin operations will lead to a consistently stronger system. I don't know if it's being discussed or not, but a hard slotting system for the draft in the new CBA would only help our cause, because I doubt Reinsdorf will ever change his stance on going overslot otherwise.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 19, 2011 -> 01:21 PM) I don't recall anybody ever pining for a #1 ranked farm. But the short-term and even long-term value that comes from being able to consistently produce from within is immeasurable. I'm not saying half the roster has to be homegrown. But they have to get better. A LOT better. The defense was always that none of the guys he traded ever amounted to anything. Well, you started to see some of those guys produce last year. And when the trade deadline came around and it was time to upgrade the pathetic DH situation, KW fell flat on his face. Fortunately, it doesn't appear that a MAJOR need will arise this season unless there's a significant injury. But I wouldn't count on KW being as active come trade time as he has been in the past. Can't really bargain when you have nothing to bargain with. No doubt the farm system has to improve. Outside of a handful of prospects, the system is pretty barren. KW has been playing a dangerous game for a while keeping it so thin. He's been forced to make a lot of risky trades to help offset this lack of talent and luckily he's been successful so far. Let's be honest, where would we be right now without the Danks and Floyd deals? The system just couldn't produce guys like that at the time. How often can you trade for arms with that kind of talent and then develop them into above average starting pitchers? At some point, if the system doesn't improve, deals like that won't work out or won't be available and the Sox will not have adequate backup options in our system. That's when we'll really be in trouble. Also, I just see a lot of people who are infatuated with a Royals type system. I see people say, "Watch out, the Royals are going to be really good in a couple of years". Really? Where's all the good young talent on their 25 man roster? Don't get me wrong, they have a lot of nice looking prospects, but those guys are still just prospects. Remember when the Sox had the #1 farm system in baseball? KW was the farm director at the time and put together an "impressive" group of prospects. Almost all of these guys turned out to be complete flops, got injured, or failed to meet expectations. There's no guarantee the Royals system will be any different. Best scenario for them, only some of their elite prospects turn out like Alex Gordon. Even in that case, how long will it take for those guys to develop into quality major league players? Due to the lack of talent on their roster, they got a long road ahead no matter what happens with these prospects.

QUOTE (SouthsideDon48 @ Mar 19, 2011 -> 11:20 AM) That really makes the Brandon Allen trade look a lot worse. The Diamondbacks had him play a few games at left field if I'm not mistaken. I've got to be honest, I hated that trade at the time and still do. I have no idea if Allen will ever make it in the majors, but he was our only left-handed power prospect and we had potential future holes at 1B & DH at the time. Now that we have Dunn and Konerko signed to long-term deals, it's not as big of a deal to me that he's gone. Regardless, trading him for a reliever like Tony Pena given our situation back then still makes no sense IMO.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 19, 2011 -> 10:54 AM) And, there's always the possibility we take another "MLB ready" collegiate pitcher in the draft again... While that won't please the minor league followers, KW has never really cared about ranking our farm system #1. With that full emphasis on the major league club, we'll see how the lack of depth might hamstring him finally if it comes down to a full-scale rebuild. Here's hoping we never have to find out. And wondering if either KW or Ozzie will be around to patiently see it through. Doubtful. I think we're done taking Lance Broadway and Kyle McCulloch types. However, I do think the Sox will make pitching the focus of their next few drafts. If so, we're more likely to get another Dan Hudson who can move through the system quickly. Also, while I'd love having a #1 system, that's a secondary concern of mine. As long as KW can consistently add young talent to the 25 man roster and have enough in the system to provide some level of depth and acquire help when needed, we'll be in decent shape. I think evaluating an organization strictly by it's minor league system is pretty stupid. Look at the Sox, we have a terrible minor league system, yet have some really nice players on the major league team. Just cause those guys got promoted doesn't mean the organization is weak from a young talent perspective.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Mar 18, 2011 -> 12:54 PM) I can see the 2012 OF being Milledge-Rios-Viciedo at this rate. That's possible, but Dunn and A.J. would be the only lefties in our lineup then. That's going to be a serious concern for us in the long-run, because our entire core is right-handed outside of Dunn and we don't have many left-handed prospects in our system, especially ones who will be ready to take over a major league job anytime soon.

While I'd love to add a guy like this, I don't think the outfield is a major need spot for us. Sure, we'll need to replace Pierre after this season and most likely Quentin after 2012. However, Viciedo looks like he's ready for an everyday role right now and even Milledge looks like he could be more than just a backup (although it's way too early say that with any level of certainty). By 2013, Mitchell should be ready if he's ever going to be. If not, we can easily fill a corner OF spot in free agency for a year or two while we wait for another minor leaguer to take the spot (perhaps Thompson). If we have money to spend, put it towards pitching. We could really use a minor league arm that can push for a spot in our rotation in a year or two.

Our pitching depth will definitely be a huge concern entering 2012. If Jackson and Buehrle both leave we'll have two holes to fill in the rotation. Despite what some people think, I honestly believe Sale can be a solid #5 starter next year. That still would leave one spot to fill though and no internal candidates to fill it. If we're coming off a good 2011, then we can probably afford to fill that spot in free agency. If not, we'll probably be rebuilding anyways. The real question is how likely is it Jackson or Buerhle returns? If one of these guys returns, the depth will much less of an issue. If both guys return, we'll actually have a surplus of starting pitching options for 2012. Now, don't get me wrong, it's very unlikely both guys return. Buerhle obviously seems like the more likely option. However, I could see KW trying to lock up Jackson to an extension during the season. While it's very unlikely due to the Scott Boras factor, he seems like one of those guys who has moved around a lot and may want to stick in one spot for the foreseeable future. If that happens, then the entire situation changes. We'd have no holes in the rotation and the option of bringing Buerhle back. If you bring him back, you'd have the flexibility to trade a starter (Danks if he won't resign, Floyd otherwise) and add a couple of impact minor league arms. We'd actually be in great shape. More realistically, we resign Buerhle to a two year extension and we go with him, Peavy, Floyd, Danks, and Sale in 2012. We most likely lose Danks after the season and have a big hole to fill. The hope by then is that one of Reed, Petricka, Rienzo, etc. can make a Dan Hudson like run through the minors and take the spot. Not sure how likely that is. Regardless, even if we can fill out our rotation with solid pitchers in 2011 and 2012, we'll most likely have no prospects in AAA capable of taking over a spot (and performing well) in the event of an injury during this time span. That will remain a significant risk until it's addressed, but there is no guarantee it will ever affect us. However, with Peavy and Floyd in the rotation, I know I would be a little worried that someone will go down for a period of time. I can't wait to see how KW addresses this situation, because he's got a lot of work ahead of him. At least we're pretty set on the offensive side of the ball, with several young players that we should be able to count on for the next four to five years. That should make fixing the pitching situation a little bit easier for KW.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Mar 17, 2011 -> 05:45 PM) Probably your brain. Can I ask you a question? Let's say the Sox did put Sale in AAA to start the year. They don't bring him up until the end of August and when they do they place him in the bullpen. Prior to this, the Sox use a bunch of AAAA type players to fill this spot. At the same time, Will Ohman serves as our left-handed setup man and is forced to face more right-handed hitters than he should. The Sox end up losing the division to the Twins by one game. Are you still happy? Would you have wished you had Sale in the bullpen all year?

QUOTE (flavum @ Mar 13, 2011 -> 10:37 AM) 2:55/670AM- interactive after the 4th inning. Pierre LF, Beckham 2B, Dunn DH, Konerko 1B, Quentin RF, Milledge CF, Vizquel SS, Castro C, Morel 3B, Danks P I like seeing Milledge in CF. If he can be serviceable out there, then he should get the 4th OF job. Rios doesn't need a lot of time off anyways.

Have the people who were impressed with Lillibridge last season even looked at his minor league numbers? Last year in AAA he put up a .708 OPS in a pretty damn good hitters park. It was his third season in AAA and his overall best year since 2007. I don't care what he did at the major league level for a couple of months, the guy is not and will never be a good offensive player. This is like the Donny Lucy stuff all over again. Every once in a while a garbage player can get lucky in the majors for a period of time. That doesn't make him a good player. Now, Lillibridge may not be a pure garbage player. He's versatile and fast which can be great for a bench, but he doesn't play any of his positions at an elite level. He's a great 26th man if he's down in AAA backing up our backups, but due to his lack of options, that's probably not a possibility anymore. If you can get him through waivers and have him in AAA in the event of an injury then great. But there's absolutely no reason to put him on the major league roster if we're going with a four man bench and already have two infielders. We need a legit fourth outfielder and Millidge is the best guy for that job IMO. Plus he can mash lefties (another need on our bench) and still has the potential to become an everyday player. He's the better option for 2011 and he's the better option in 2012 and beyond when Pierre and Quentin could be gone. I don't see how anyone could honestly prefer Lillibridge over him. I think people are being blinded by a couple of lucky months from Lillibridge.

QUOTE (soxsider11 @ Mar 8, 2011 -> 06:36 PM) That is very little speed to come off the bench. Milledge only had 5 sbs last year compared to lillibridges 16. Just sayin cause that could come into the decision Unfortunately, when you have a four man bench you're going to have to make some sacrifices. While having a true speed guy would be nice, I'd much rather have Milledge to serve as a quasi-platoon partner and late inning defensive replacement for Quentin. Plus he's fast enough to serve as a pinch-runner for the really slow guys. Obviously Ozzie may feel differently and choose Lillibridge or De Aza. I wouldn't be surprised.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 8, 2011 -> 05:24 PM) With his lack of defensive skills/experience, the abundance of DH's on this team, and the likelihood of other RH hitting OF players on the bench (Milledge or De Aza), it's hard for me to believe that Viciedo getting 3 starts a week would be worth an extra win to this team even if he hit well. If we go with a four man bench and are stuck with Teahen, then the question becomes which reserve outfielder is the best fit for the team. The four guys competing for the spot appear to be Milledge, De Aza, Viciedo, and Lillibridge. Each guy offers something different. De Aza is the only left-handed bat out of the bunch. Viciedo and Milledge crush left-handed pitching. De Aza and Lillibridge are the only two who can play a reasonable CF. Lillibridge and Viciedo can play some IF positions. Clearly each guy has his pros and cons. Looking at our roster makeup, we definitely need a right-handed hitting backup OF. Pierre has actually been better against lefties the past few years, but we have Teahen available when he needs a day off. Quentin is much better against righties and is obviously a defensive liability. A solid defensively OF who can hit lefties well would solve several needs. That guy seems to be Milledge to me. Given the amount of starts each guy would get on a regular basis, the difference between him and Viciedo would be minimal. Also, why it's great that Viciedo can play 1B and 3B, Morel and Konerko are both RH hitters and we have Dunn to slide into 1B once a week. As for CF, I'd rather use Pierre there when Rios needs a day off and be able to keep Milledge on the roster than be forced to use Lillibridge. His bat is just too weak IMO. All things considered, I'd much rather have Viciedo in AAA playing outfield on a regular basis and being our first line of defense against an injury at LF/RF/1B/DH. What's funny about all this is that trying to optimize the bench is probably a complete waste because Ozzie won't look at the splits. He'll use Teahen as Quentin's backup and use Milledge or Viciedo as Pierre's backup anyways.

I see no reason to trade Flowers in the near future. If he's productive this year, you have a solid 3rd string catcher at AAA for the time-being and a backup catcher/platoon option for 2012. He'll have decent trade value, but considering we'll need a long-term answer at catcher, his value will likely be greater to our team. If he sucks, he'll basically destroy any value he has at the moment and becomes organizational filler. Considering we probably can't get much for him right now anyways, might as well roll the dice on him having a bounce-back season. I still believe he can become a solid catcher in the future.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Feb 3, 2011 -> 06:42 PM) This is true, and I wish the trade would have been done. Instead of trading for and then signing Dunn, the Sox lose the draft pick in a draft that is very deep. No offense, but that logic is stupid. The value of a nearly major league ready prospect with all-star potential who's only 21 years old is far greater than that of the 20th pick in a deep draft who's at least 2 to 3 years from the majors. Worst case scenario, Viciedo will be a quality platoon 1B/DH, while the draft pick will flame out within a year and give you nothing.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Feb 2, 2011 -> 06:52 AM) First I'd like to say that I listen to that podcast every week, it's the best thing going. With that being said, I think KG is valid in putting Escobar over Viciedo. As it's already been said with Escobar, you have a guy who HAS a great glove who won't hit a ton, but still will prevent a ton of runs with his glove. Then on the opposite spectrum you have Viciedo who MIGHT hit 40 homeruns, but comes with a lot of other questions, such as will he walk more than once every other month? Can he play any position on the field? I guess my bias comes down to this: Personally I just don't get the Viciedo hype. Guys who have the same OBP and their batting average need to get really, really, really lucky to sustain valuable production. I saw a few power surges with Tank, but I'm skeptical that he will ever come close to putting up typical big league slugger/no glove numbers that justify trotting him out to a corner OF spot. So if you could have only one of these guys in our system, you'd take Esobar over Viciedo?

QUOTE (GREEDY @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 04:08 PM) Dude is a DH on a team with three already under contract. f***ing trade him. For what? How does trading Viciedo right now help us this season?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 03:32 PM) I know, I know, I just hope you're seeing my side a little here. Yeah, hindsight is 20/20, but you have to admit...he might well be starting on the big league team this year if we'd committed to the right position for him 2 years ago and not moved him. I do see your point. His bat is pretty much major league ready, but now he needs more time to develop defensively. Who knows if or how long that will take? I just hope he can eventually make it in LF or RF, because we don't have enough potential impact bats in the system to waste his.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 01:29 PM) ^^^^ this. He's really to Carlos Leeish and LF is where he should be IMO. I do agree with the feeling of jacking him all over the place. He's the Danieal Manning of the White Sox. Can someone please tell me why you're supposed to put your weaker OF in LF? I get that you'd put your outfielder with the weakest arm in LF, but how does a lack of range or poor reads improve by being in LF rather than RF? The only thing I can think of is that less balls get hit to LF, but I don't know if that's the case. I would think that since there are so many more right-handed hitters that more balls would actually go to LF.