Chicago White Sox

Look at how many holes we have and people actually think bringing in a new catcher is somehow realistic. I fully agree the defense could be better, but the hatred for Grandal by a handful of posters here is beyond crazy to me. The gamethreads are almost unbearable with the amount of nitpicking / blame sent his way.

The problem with moving Sheets is you’re going to get the least amount in return, so you’re basically moving him for little benefit. I agree that moving Eloy would be a poor decision given the season he just had. As for Vaughn, I think most savvy organizations would realize how good he was in Jul & Aug before getting injured / running out of gas and would be all over him. I’d hate to move him, but if I can get a similar player at another position it may be the most value additive way to clear surplus we currently have.

$170M would be all-time high for JR and a top 10 payroll for the league I believe. I just can’t see him going above that next year, especially with the potential for a work stoppage.

I think it’s all but certainty that Crochet is in the bullpen next year. As for Cesar, zero chance they pick up that option after his collapse IMO.

Agree. I think they need to move one of the main corner guys in addition to Burger.

Let’s assume we move Kimbrel. This would be our starting point roster prior to any upgrades and we might only have $25M to upgrade it. The flaws are basically having no bullpen after the top three guys, questionable back of the rotation with no depth, extremely unbalanced lineup, and terrible OF defense. Seems problematic to me. Starting Lineup: 1B: Abreu 2B: Gonzalez SS: Anderson 3B. Moncada LF: Jimenez CF: Robert RF: Vaughn CA: Grandal DH: Sheets Bench: IF: Mendick IF: Burger OF: Engel CA: Collins Rotation: Giolito Lynn Cease Kopech Keuchel Bullpen: 9th: Hendriks 8th: Bummer 8th: Crochet 7th: Ruiz 7th: Burr 6th: Foster 6th: Cordero LR: Lopez

Definitely agree with that. I incorrectly assumed trading Madrigal meant the Sox would bump up the player high enough to easily replace him, but definitely concerned that won’t be the case.

Agree. It’s going to be a serious challenge. Hahn will need to get really creative to address all our holes. A couple things I’m expecting is Keuchel flipped for an overpaid guy at a different position and Burger moved for a controllable reliever. Will need to make more moves than that though.

Lol…you must really hate Grandal to use Harold as evidence that Grandal sucks.

Anderson & Moncada are owed a combined $22.5M next year. Add a few more pre-arb guys and we’re quickly we’re sitting around $145M with five spots to fill if we turn down Kimbrel’s option. So it just comes down to how much total payroll Jerry will support. At $170M, we’d be looking at $25M to work with to fill all our holes.

Oh gotcha

Definitely feels like we’ll be capped out around $170M next year. If so, it’s going to be nearly impossible for Hahn to address all the holes on this team with quality additions. Even by moving Kimbrel, we may only $25M or so to work with, so expect a couple Adam Eaton type signings this offseason.

What in the world does this mean? Do you mean for the Sox?

Does wRC+ adjust for the specific competition faced? Don’t get me wrong, I think we have a really good offense in isolation and I’m a huge proponent of wRC+, but it’s still missing the context that we faced a ton of shit pitchers in the AL Central and that we have an offense that both lacks balance and is highly streaky.

The previous “two years” was also 35 innings and he was actually good the last 15 of them, yet you continue ignore the tiny sample size or legit reasons for his struggles. He then went on to be the best reliever in baseball the first half of this year. Maybe he will suck next year, but I’d wager he returns to form wherever he ends up if given a traditional closer role. Whether that gamble is worth $16M depends on the level of payroll available. I don’t think we can afford to take that risk with where I see payroll going, but someone is going to be interested in him on a 1/$16M deal.

Then don’t keep Kimbrel. I’m just saying that if we keep Kimbrel (which is unlikely IMO), we can’t keep throwing him out there in a role he’s not clearly comfortable in as ridiculous as that may seem. Either you hope a move back to the 9th brings out the dominant guy we saw in the first half or go in another direction. As for Liam, some of his value is wasted by being a closer under La Russa. Liam should be used in the highest leverage situations and should see more multi innings outings, but Tony likes a closer who mostly gets just the 9th. He’s getting paid high end closer money regardless of role and has already stated he’ll do what’s best for the team. Optimizing the roster is far more important that protecting one guy’s ego. Ultimately it likely won’t matter as I can’t see them committing that money to Kimbrel with all the other holes we currently have. This was simply a hypothetical “if we keep Craig” comment.

If we decide to keep Kimbrel, then he should be the closer and Hendriks should be the guy who comes in during the highest leverage situations with runners on base.

I’m proposing a Vaughn for Lux trade, not Bellinger.

Vaughn can rotate between 1B and LF for them. I know they got a great season out of Pollock, but dude has a terrible track record of staying healthy. But yeah, hard to say if that’s something they’d even consider. At least the financials would work well for them.

We can’t afford to trade more relievers in all honesty. Hendriks, Bummer, & Crochet are the only reliable guys we have at the moment assuming Kimbrel is moved.

What? Dude has a 136 wRC+ against RHP over the course of his career (2,187 PA’s) with strong BB & K rates. He’s also never been below 118 in a single season, including his “down” 2021 season. This idea that he’s overly streaky or “all or nothing” is simply not true and if we got the average version of him he’d the perfect addition to our lineup.

I’m still struggling with how we address the offense. 2B & RF are the holes, but I’m still not sure how you fit all of Eloy, Vaughn, & Sheets onto this roster. It’s easy to say that Gavin should be the odd man out, but the kid just put up a 143 wRC+ against RHP as a rookie and has one of the better approaches at the plate. To me, he passed the eye test this year and 100% needs to be the strong side of a DH platoon as head into the 2022 season. Andrew Vaughn is another guy I don’t think we can move. He was damn good offensively once he adjusted to the league, posting a 119 wRC+ over July & August. And that’s after missing out any serious minor league development. I think people have become too harsh on him due to his end of season struggles. I think he could be our best hitter as soon as next season and his plate discipline is desperately needed. The challenge is where do you actually play him? While he exceeded all expectations in the OF, the reality is he’s not very good out there. Rocking both him and Eloy in the corners would be problematic. Speaking of Eloy, but no idea how you could ever consider moving him right now. I get he disappointed this year, but he also didn’t get a spring training and was coming off a tough injury. At the end of the day, this is a 25 year old kid under contract for the next five years at reasonable rate who posted a 139 wRC+ in his second season. I don’t care what people say, his offensive potential is absolutely insane and you’d be selling low on him right now. I think he’s a clear hold, but should see more time at DH. So yeah, that kind of leaves us in a bind. Even if you considered moving Vaughn or Eloy, what kind of return would you be looking for? Would the Dodgers consider a Vaughn for Lux type deal? To me, that’s the only type of move I’d consider with Andrew. If so, that would free up RF for Conforto and allow us to add two left-handed bats to the lineup: Tim Anderson, SS Luis Robert, CF Yoan Moncada, 3B# Michael Conforto, RF* Eloy Jimenez, LF Yasmani Grandal, C# Jose Abreu, 1B Gavin Sheets, DH* Gavin Lux, 2B* Again, no idea if the Dodgers would even consider such a deal, but it’s the only move I can think of that fills one of our major holes with a young, potential impact talent who happens to bad LH while also relieving the redundancy we have in LF/RF/DH with guys who are poor defenders. Hahn will have to think outside the box if he wants to fix this offense as we have a lot of great pieces, but ones that don’t necessarily fit all that well together.

We need multiple relievers too.

We still have a great core, but still have multiple holes to fill. The first two questions that need to be addressed are Rodon & Kimbrel. Both will be super expensive to retain, but also create massive holes if not brought back. And don’t get me wrong, I 100% realize Kimbrel sucked a fat you know what, but I personally think he rebounds next year and without him we have a gaping hole in the setup man spot. He should still probably be moved, but fixing this bullpen is going to be a real challenge with Heuer gone and both Foster & Marshall busting this year. Bringing back Tepera is basically a must at this point. As for Rodon, unless you’re worried his shoulder is going to blow up, I don’t think you have a choice but to extend him a QO and hope for the best. We need another starter to hedge the risk that Keuchel is likely cooked and Kopech probably can’t handle a full workload. Beyond those moves and completely rebuilding the bullpen, we have a massive hole at 2B and need to figure out what we’re doing in the OF corners and at DH. Can we survive an OF defense that contains both Eloy & Vaughn? Has Sheets shown enough to be given an opportunity at DH to start the season? Beyond those obvious questions, we need to mix things up with a lineup that is too right-handed and struggles against breaking balls. I’m honestly not sure what the solution is, but I feel like a shakeup move may be needed but will be hard to execute. With a payroll quickly rising in cost, I’m definitely concerned that Hahn cuts corners on the offense and commits his resources to our pitching staff. It’s going to be a shame if we go with another half-assed RF next year. Either commit to Vaughn there despite the defensive limitations, make a shake-up trade, or go out and sign Conforto. We can’t follow up Mazara & Eaton with more garbage. Honestly, we should be able to patch together a AL Central favorite roster together pretty easily IMO, but if we’re serious about getting a ring then Jerry has to open the checkbook quite a bit beyond the $170M target I have in mind and that’s probably unlikely. If if that’s the case, Hahn is going to have a tough time this offseason with minimal payroll flexibility and a bottom five farm system. At least we have La Russa in place whose tactical genius is worth an easy five wins.