gatnom

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Aug 9, 2011 -> 06:49 PM) Just tried Woodchuck last night. Not sure if it's considered a "beer", but if so, it's the only beer I like. And 7% alcohol? Yes please. It's actually about 5%.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Aug 9, 2011 -> 09:47 PM) No it wasn't. Sale needs to be a starter next year though. Unless this team makes the playoffs, it was definitely a mistake.

Call me crazy, but I think I can get used to this kind of offense.

There's a big difference between 140 college innings and 140+ MLB innings. Expecting much more than a 4-5 starter out of Chris Sale next year is wishful thinking IMO.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Aug 5, 2011 -> 08:12 AM) There are decisions Guillen has made that other managers would not have made that are directly responsible for wins (sticking with Pierre when everyone wanted his head, and then he hits three GW hits) I'm having trouble identifying a single example in which Adam Dunn won this team a game. And who's to say that replacement player doesn't win us a couple games during that period when Juan was horrible? Waiting for him to not suck may have been a net loss.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 4, 2011 -> 10:11 PM) If Dunn and Rios were having balls-out all-star caliber seasons and Lexi and Beckham were getting a TON of clutch hits and taking the next big steps in their careers, yes we'd have been OK. You don't see any hypocrisy in what Ranger is saying?

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Aug 4, 2011 -> 01:52 PM) BUT OZZIE AND RONGEY SAID ONE PLAYER DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!1111!!1!!!!11!! My favorite part about this is that Ranger's current line apparently is that had Dunn and Rios played like they were capable of the Sox would be fine.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 4, 2011 -> 06:30 PM) April 13th: After throwing a stressful career-high 34 pitches the night before, Ozzie has Sale start the 9th inning with a 3 run lead against the A's. Sale struggles and can't get an out, and Sox lose in extras. Don't forget the part where he put Thornton in with men on base despite the fact that he had just been taken out of the closer role.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 05:02 PM) What. That they don't want him back.

One can only hope that that if statement isn't true.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 30, 2011 -> 01:25 PM) But because he had a few bad outings and had a tendency to walk hitters, he was never appreciated here. Ridiculous. If only the writers knew that if you subtracted all the things he did poorly, he's the best pitcher in the majors.

QUOTE (Anderson Cooper's Quivering @ Jul 29, 2011 -> 08:43 AM) Not so fast. Saying that Jackson did as Jackson does would imply that he returned to some lessor form... which isn't the case at all. In his time with the Whitesox which equates to roughly one full season, he posted these numbers: 30 S 196.2 IP 11-9 3.66 ERA 174 K 57 BB 1.342 WHIP 114 ERA+ 3.05 K/BB Those are really impressive numbers pitching for a team that demonstrated trouble scoring enough runs to support quality starts. Comparing those numbers to his career averages, he is either entering his prime years and has it figured out (Thanks Dr Cooper) or Don Cooper is just some kind of magician.... 31 S 194 IP 11-11 4.53 ERA 145 K 81 BB 1.644 WHIP 88 ERA+ 1.38 K/BB Bottom line is Edwin Jackson pitched exceedingly well for the Sox relative to his career numbers and Kenny sold high on him. Edwin Jackson with the White Sox in 2010: 3.24 ERA. Edwin Jackson with the White Sox in 2011: 3.92 ERA. I'd say that constitutes as reverting to a lesser form.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 11:26 PM) E-Jax did really, really good with Coop initially. And then Jackson did as Jackson does.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 29, 2011 -> 12:15 AM) They didn't really "recover," given what attendance was like from '91-'94. It was more like a prolonged recession of below-average ticket sales. Attendance was stuck in the 1.7-1.9M range from 1998 until they won the WS. Good luck competing with the Yankees, Red Sox, and Angels, who all draw roughly a million more per year, with below-average attendance. Threatening to move to Florida and backing out of that was nothing in comparison to '94 and '97. What do these years have to do with the trade itself?

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 29, 2011 -> 12:01 AM) It took a World Series win for the Sox to fully recover from the Strike and White Flag trade. They were drawing over 2M per year from 1991-1993 (and were on pace to draw that before the '94 strike) and didn't see that level of fan support again until 2005. Unless you can guarantee another ring in the next five years, quitting on this year's team is a pretty bad idea. I never said that they became Cubs fans, but Sox fans were *pissed* in 1994 and 1997 and expressed this anger with their wallets en masse. The Sox recovered from the White Flag trade in 2 years according to your numbers. Did the fans hate the Sox more because of JR's threats to move the team to Florida along with the strike or because of the trade? From what I hear it was more than just the trade despite the fact that you are attributing more to the trade than just about anything else.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 11:43 PM) I'd imagine that there are a heck of a lot more season ticket-holders now than between 1995-2004... 1995: 1.6M 1996: 1.7M 1997: 1.9M 1998: 1.4M (White Flag Trade) 1999: 1.3M 2000: 1.9M (made the playoffs) 2001: 1.8M 2002: 1.7M 2003: 1.9M 2004: 1.9M 2005: 2.3M (WS) 2006-2010: 2.1-3.0M Season ticket-holders are key to being able to sign high-tier free agents and to acquire players with big contracts at the trade deadline. There's no way that Kenny could've made some of the moves that he's done over the past 5 years with the 1995-1999 revenues. Honestly, I think it's a lot simpler than you are making it. Win, and they will come. Lose, and they won't. I feel like under the conditions of preying on desperate teams the Sox can begin winning sooner, and, therefore, get the fans to come out sooner. In your numbers above, the Sox completely recovered from the white flag trade once they began winning again. Maybe you're right, and the fans get insulted by the management and become Cubs fans. But, the numbers above seem to imply otherwise. In any case, I don't really have anything else to say on the subject.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 11:37 PM) No there has not. Those rumors were for Pence, not Quentin and they are rumors so you don't really even know if they are true. A lot of the stuff you read even by respected reporters is BS. I swear there was a tweet back a few pages saying Brown may have not been off limits for Quentin. Regardless, the whole idea of trading Quentin now is to take advantage of desperate teams in a bidding war. If that doesn't happen, there's obviously no reason to trade him.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 11:32 PM) Where has there been a proposed package mentioned? There have been rumors of Domonic Brown + others.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 11:30 PM) I think very similar. I think the bandwagon fans have jumped off. I think it also depends on whether or not the casual fan thinks we are in this race, too. Most I know think they suck and have no chance. I'm sure our good friend Joe would be more than happy to spin it into KW and JR giving up on the fans.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 11:27 PM) You have no idea what is being offered for Carlos Quentin. Neither of us have any idea if they would trade him for anything less than an absolutely amazing package. If even half the proposed package is ever offered, you do it, no questions asked.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 11:24 PM) You need to brush up on Sox history, little buddy. Fair point I suppose, despite the condescension. How similar is the pre-2005 fan base to the current, though?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 11:22 PM) It makes a lot more sense than pulling the plug right now. For the record, I don't think the Sox will pull the plug. The question then becomes, does trading Quentin for an absolutely amazing package constitute as pulling the plug?

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 11:18 PM) For the record, I'm all for major rebuilding IN THE OFF-SEASON if the Sox fail to make the playoffs this year. Just don't cut the legs out from a team that has a legit shot of winning the division this season. I hope you don't plan on winning any time in the next few years then. I'm sure the fans would react positively to that, though.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 11:07 PM) BS. He can still trade Quentin and Thornton and Danks and Floyd in the offseason. Carlos Quentin isn't even worth Domonic Brown straight up in the off season, let alone him and 2-3 other top 100 prospects in baseball. I don't agree with completely trading away our team; I just think it is wise to sell while teams are willing to trade you an arm and a leg plus a few top prospects. In the off season, you will only get fair value for him. I wouldn't mind dealing Thornton because we have such a deep bullpen as it is, and that's not even including Reed and a few other good relief prospects we have. I don't see anybody having enough for Danks or Floyd.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 10:56 PM) Some of you need to go back and look at the attendance figures after the White Flag Trade. If the Sox pull that crap again, it'll be even worse. It's difficult to rebuild a winning franchise when there is no gate, parking, or concessions revenue coming in. All I'm saying is that making money is more important than winning baseball games to the ownership. If they keep this team in tact and fail to make or do much in the playoffs, this organization will be set back years. KW may not be willing to take that risk, particularly when we can still win the division without Quentin.