Pumpkin Escobar

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Aug 12, 2010 -> 05:43 PM) It seems like Kenny's small deals are always the best deals. Borchard for Thornton McCarthy for Danks Carter for Quentin I'm not so fast to agree with the Quentin one. He has immense talent and has proven more at the mlb level but realistically, removing 08' success, he isn't a bonafide lock, year in and year out to be a superstar. Even this year, he has been great of late but started horribly and it's almost as if we just wait for him to get hurt. Now sure I'd do the deal years ago, but had we waited a year where Carter developed more power and a better approach, I'm not so sure KW does the deal. CQ wouldve still been in the minors in Zona, maybe up, but how would he have done there? It's all catch 22. And the biggest problem with injury guys is even if things are going red hot, like for exmaple, a Josh Hamilton, you still are just waiting for it to collapse. If you aren't, and you know their history, well then you aren't preparing for your job the best way possible and covering your bets. Carter may not ever do what Quentin did in 08 but what'd that get us? The big thing is that having held out to carter, he would've been a chip to acquire someone perhaps more talented and less of a concern then CQ (IE a player like Haren for the dbacks). So I'm not so sure that is a lock that he won that trade. Need some full seasons of Quentin where he is the player he was in 08 to gaurentee that.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 11, 2010 -> 09:12 AM) Anything is possible in baseball. We've seen it this year. Of course, the ONE thing you don't want to see is a three game sweep by your rivals on your home field, where you just established such dominance for the last 2 months. (I think if the White Sox were swept at home and then still managed to come back and win the ALCD, then Ozzie would be justified in writing his book, getting a team up off the deck twice in one season like that would be pretty miraculous). That said, with the way this season has gone, you can't count anybody out. We saw the same thing happen in 2008, the Twins (although it was in Minnesota) just demolished the White Sox psychologically, there was the infamous Jenks/Carlos Gomez debacle (to be compared to this year's Sunday No Out Massacre), your heart was torn out and ripped in two by the Twins at that point. And yet we still came back to win. I'm not saying the SAME thing will happen again, but there's no reason why it can't. Of course, Twins fans can say that they don't need Morneau to win (they won something like 16 of their last 21 without him last year and are seemingly fine again without his presence in the line-up), that their offensive depth and bullpen can make up for any deficiencies in the starting rotation. Anything is possible, but more often then not, those things don't happen. I know people are sick of the pessimism on here or in general, but there is also a difference between being realistic, and being optomistic or pessimistic. When it comes to the Sox and the Twins at this time of year, I'd prefer to mow them down instead of having to hold my breath for a miracle. Even if it happens "again", you want that kind of team over a team that just goes out and proves they're better? No thanks.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Aug 8, 2010 -> 03:01 PM) Soxbadger wrote: I really think this is a great post and that it deserves its own thread. Yes, it sucked to lose 2 to the Orioles, and yes it would suck even more to lose 3 games to the Orioles. It really sucked. However, it's become increasingly alarming that this team has literally no margin for error before most of the board thinks they have no chance at well, anything, even sometimes don't even deserve paying attention to for the remainder of the day. The moment the Sox are down against a bad team people are flying off of a bridge in the game thread. Why exactly is that? People rode out a terrible August in 2005, and showed a lot more patience through something like a 5-13 stretch, and this was before the White Sox could even prove they could win a pennant, let alone a World Series. What exactly has changed? More importantly, what exactly was expected from fans going into this season? I think 90% of the board probably had this team winning between 81 and 90 games and in the hunt for the division, but I think most thought they wouldn't necessarily have enough offense. I personally had them in 3rd place at around 81 wins. Now, we are in a pennant race. This team is on pace to win, what, 91-92 games? Would you rather change places with a team like the tanking Rays right now, who someone pointed out earlier started 30-11 and have gone like 4 over .500 since? When we were 9.5 back, the most distressing thing was that a lot of our young talent appeared to be a mirage. Now, it appears that Beckham is a bona fide major leaguer after all, that Quentin actually does have value, that Peavy can in fact pitch in the AL, and that Ramirez is who we thought he was. Our core seems pretty damned good. Now, we are poised to compete for the title in '10, and certainly also be in the hunt for '11. So why all the negativity? Why is their such a low tolerance for anything bad happening? To answer your question, the reason is that "for all the negativity" that people throw around it comes back to the fact that this team was one of the worst in baseball at the start of the season. It took a monumental run, the likes that we will hardly see again, for this team to get to only a .5 lad in the division. So when you factor in that people did want to deal vets, discuss online how bad we were, and explain that now we are in the race but we have holes that need to be addressed because this team still has flaws which we can better before the postseason. When realizing that is the truth and accepting the fact that we had a rare win streak, which is great and has made this season worth watching, it still came down to us getting hot at the most opprtune time (being against the NL for the majority of it). This team before the season had several question marks which would make any baseball fan question what we were thinking. Their was the question of can Peavy be Peavy, he wasn't, but he was still effective and got kind of hot in there. We questioned if Quentin could rebound, he didn't at first but has played stellar since. How would Beckham progress? Would Rios be of any use? Why are we starting "Doc" from major league 3 instead of Hudson as our 5. Not a whole lot made sense and didn't give a huge vibe of hope for a good 2months. What we didn't know was Paulie would have a career year. We didnt know Rios would as well. So the concerns about Quentin needing to be healthy so we have some power kind of went out the window with those 2, and then magically Quentin got hot. Everyone got hot, even the struggling pitching. Sure the team is built on pitching as someone said but that isn't everything. We have had many a games where the bats have been the reason for it. A few things I keep in perspected are that we were bad early on. We have some very bad players and big holes. We have guys which we all want gone and we have a pathetic farm. Had we dealt away Jenks, Paulie, and whoever. Ya I'd be sad to see some vets go and we wouldn't have seen the run we had or be in competitive games down the stretch but we wouldn't have thought twice because hindsight is 20/20. We'd instead be optimistic about the guys we got in return and be planning Kenny's offseason which probably would've been exciting as well. We would've in all likelihood put together a overhaul roster but I'd imagine we would've filled every holeon the squad. Instead, that we had that incredible run and we are only half a game up on Minnesota. That kind of run from a team that was truly great you'd hope to be up by 7-8 games. We aren't. So we can get cocky about it, as we basically have, as say we have what it takes to get there as is or we could've addressed some of the remaining holes and taken a good team and made it great. We didn't. Last comparison I'll make. Think of it as a title fight in boxing or something. We just hit baseball with pretty much everything we had. some of the greatest rounds ever. Knockdowns, big blows, etc. We still only caught up and tied on the scorecard. We should be up by a ton and now we go into the stretch with a better fighter. In our case, we aren't bleeding or swollen over, we are missing an Ace, a couple guys in that pen are shaky as can be and we have a monsterous glaring hole at a position which was a gift to our league. You don't hit a DH slot with a guy hitting 200. It's stupid. Why use a DH and not a pitcher at that point? So we have a month to tune and tweak things. Cant wait. Lets go boys. ***can we stop losing to dogs*** teams? only request.

Do we really want Manny? the bat hasn't quite been Manny-like for a while.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Aug 2, 2010 -> 09:48 PM) Man, McLouth has absolutely crashed this season. His numbers are terrible. What happened to Nick Johnson?! I was high on him at the start of the season simply because he has been a solid hitter over the last few years. His spring training was horrible. Something like 3-40 or something. So I figured hot start was certain, then hot may, maybe june, now end of july/august he is gone. Not sure what happened there.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 2, 2010 -> 11:26 AM) 11:$5.75M, 12:$7.625M, 13:$11.625M, 14:$13M club option ($0.25M buyout) LESTER's deal I wouldn't be surprised at all if the White Sox offered him something similar to get to year 7 and 8. Although I think they're going to have to pay him $7.5 million next year, $11.5 million in 2012 and then the $13 million club option to buy out one year of free agency. Will he go for it, is the question? And if he turns down this offer (as he did before, the one Gavin Floyd accepted)...how long would KW wait to deal him? Probably this offseason or in July 2011. How much do you think the Marlins regret not dealing Miggy for Danks?

QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 2, 2010 -> 09:20 AM) Pavano actually had a pretty good season last year peripheral wise. It was a great pickup for the Twins at the time. His FIP and xFIP were a whole run lower than his ERA. That horrible Cleveland infield killed him. QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 2, 2010 -> 11:17 AM) The Twins' fifth starters in 2003 (Kenny Rogers at the beginning of the year), Livan Hernandez in 2008 and Pavano 2nd half of 2009 all played, at least in my mind, THE crucial roles in those three division titles...and I'm convinced that if they would have dumped Livan about 3-4 weeks earlier, they would have won two years ago. That was the one year where going cheap bit them, along with 2005 and 2007. I'm glad his peripherals were decent. Decent isn't good. The kid mentioned elite talent or best talent, I decline to put pavano in that category. He has 2, if you really really want last season, I'll give you 3 good seasons in his career. Which has been 10+ years? So 3 good years makes him elite? I consider elite or best maybe 15 SP, the rest can be considered good, then average. Pavano is avg. Again, I'm not talking about what waiver guys did after the claim or the season after. These weren't waiver guys but Brady Anderson and Fernando Tatis had massive seasons once in their careers. The rest of the time they were mediocre or garbage. I'm not gauging what he did after the Twins got him. There is a reason he was able to slide past other teams, because he isn't an extreme talent. I'm sure we could find a Pavano like hitter on the market, someone who hits 15 homers a year but magically hits 20 every once and a while. Those guys aren't the type of guys every team covets, teams go out of their way to claim or block, they're just not. Pavano was a mediocre arm and the Twins needed backend of the rotation. I've never once heard this kind of love for Carl Pavano, it's like the twilight zone.

My buddy and I talk about this often. We need to pay the kid. Lock him up.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 1, 2010 -> 07:32 PM) I'm desperately trying to find a stream of this... There is one on Myp2p, but it's only after games. Edit: it started working after a while. I'll be watching the last 15 minutes of the show. Not sure if you've been told or asked yet but if you have comcast and not mlbnetwork you can still watch the show I think. I have MLB so no issues but my buddy doesnt. I was looking literally today at the ONDEMAND, Local section, went to sports or chicago sports, then go to white sox and it should be in there. It may just be in the chicago sports part too, cant quite remember it all. Anyways, you'll see the MLBNetwork thing under the White Sox and go into the shows - it says on mine they're complimentary. I'd assume you can see them then.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 2, 2010 -> 12:18 AM) Every player on every team will probably be placed on waivers. Your question is better phrased as will he pass through waivers unclaimed. The answer is absolutely. Ya. I always read that most players get put on it. Beltran is an interesting name. I know he has one more year after this on contract for a whole lot. Anyone know how his deferred money works? I saw online his salary is 18.5 but it says he is owed 22mil from 08-2011 with a 1.72% compounding interest. He hasn't exactly proven anything this season but if the Mets wanted to pick up most of the tab, probably would cost us more and isn't really worth it at that point, but he would be an interesting guy for us. DH him, put him in the OF to give someone else a day off.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Aug 1, 2010 -> 11:11 PM) All my waiver examples are some of the best talent at what they do in the game today. Not sure how this is confusing to you. But you keep on with the "pathetics" and "convictings" if it makes you feel better. K. Pavano is having his 2nd good season of his career. Hardly one of the "best talents". I still cannot believe I am reading that. More then once, no less. It's like you'll say anything to try and pretend your point is more valid then it is. And you failed to accept that US, the White Sox, being a first place team, have minimal chance of seeing that "kind of talent" through waivers. Even if we used your cheap evidence of a whole 4 names in the history of the waiver deadline, out of the hundreds of talented ballplayers in baseball today, only Wagner made it through almost both leagues when claimed. Of the four guys you used. Rios, since you missed it, lasted 4 or 5 teams. Didn't see the top AL teams and didnt make it to the NL. Meaning, if it was this season when a guy like Rios was being claimed, a team like Detroit, would be in the place to get him and theyre much better then we were last season at the point of claiming Rios. Dunn, same deal, last 5 teams in the NL in 2008. Didn't see the frontrunner's of the NL and certainly not the other league. Sure Zona was in the race but the whole division was under .500 or at .500 at the time of the claim and most of the NL Central and NL East didn't get to see Dunn because they had better records then the lowly NL West. Fairly certain I can't make this any easier to comprehend. There is no certainty, since that is how this debate started, that a "impact bat" will be there for us in the roll we covet. That role, being a DH, preferably LH power bat. Maybe someone does get out there and i'll jump for joy but the point is that it is not as often as you're pretending it is, nor on the level of which we need. I hope someone is there and if so, thats great but rarely, rarely do you see the most vital need for a team, their biggest weakness, just sitting out there for a first place team to claim without someone stepping in and blocking it. That or the player isn't out there and they settle for a decent player - which we may do, but hardly the likes of Dunn or whoever you're insinuating is/will be out there. I'm sure we could find a minor bat but not "some of the games best talent". Doesn't work that way.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Aug 1, 2010 -> 09:54 PM) The Rios claim was not a $50 million block to the Tigers. The Rios claim was a Rios claim. The Sox are incredibly thorough in their player evaluations and they saw a very good chance Rios would recover, and they were right. No business makes $50-60 million dollar guesses. I don't think it was a block either. But the Tigers, were in fact blocked by a team with a worse record coveting a player which could've been theirs. I also don't know who you speak to that tells you how thorough we are but I'd like to hear more about your source or your affiliation with the club. And it wasn't a 50-60 million dollar guess, what it was, was a guy worth X amount of dollars based on his current and previous play, a team wanting to shed his actual salary, a team with gaping whole at the position he played, and that team willing to take the GAMBLE that he could rebound to be worth close to his contract value. Anyone follow the player values on some of the other websites? How much is he worth this season. Since he is having his best season potentially of his career, is it worth the money being paid or short or over? Just curious.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Aug 1, 2010 -> 10:05 PM) Wrong. Some of the best talent in the game today were waiver deals. It happens all the time: Adam Dunn was a waiver trade in 2009. He's an extreme value. Carl Pavano was a waiver trade last season. He's an extreme value. Rios was a waiver claim last season. He's an extreme value. Billy Wagner was a waiver trade last season. He's an extreme value. Adam Dunn, claimed by the 2nd place Dbacks. In 2008 btw. Not 2009. They were in second place in the NL west at the time and that was .500. Meaning a whole 5 teams declined on the free agent to be. Those teams being Padres, Giants, Nationals, Braves and Pirates. Ya, real quality found for a first place squad in the opposing league some 20 teams later in our case this season. Pavano? Extreme value? Especially at the time of his waiver deal. Moderate value at best? I'd let that slide. Considering his career era is north of 4 and his AL career ERA is hovering close to 5. Good season this year, happy for the guy but come on. Extreme value? And then trying to say it'd make it to a first place club? Thats the biggest thing you don't get. They don't last to first place clubs and if they do, there is something wrong with them. Rios, as stated, on waiver at this point last year was viewed as a salary dump for an uncertain, declining talent. Claimed by one of the worst teams in the AL, being us, and since we were the 6th worst team in the AL, 5th excluding Toronto who released him and him not needing to pass through the NL. That means 4 teams, the royals, baltimore, cleveland and Oakland rejected him. Not exactly teams opening the books for a guy who had sucked with a ton of money left. He didn't last long since we claimed him, thus preventing possibly a first place team to get him. Now that wasn't our intention but if the Yankees were banking on him, then you can compare them to us this season and how being low man on the totem pole isn't a good thing in waiver deals. Billy wagner. Again, a pathetic comparison just used because of his name. He had pitched a total of 2 scoreless innings since returning from surgery at 38 years old. Hadnt even been a full year since TJ, so not exactly the elite closer hitting the market midseason. He was a question mark, which is why he survived through 2 leagues until Boston claimed him. So please no more convicting "wrongs" when clearly you have no clue what you're talking about.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Aug 1, 2010 -> 09:19 PM) It'll be very interesting to see what the front office says about jackson in the next episode of the club. I don't know if anyone here is as happy as me to have Edwin. I'll also be happy to eat crow if he doesn't pan out... But I've got a great great feeling about him fir this year and 2011 I'm on the fence. Seeing him in the AL scares me since his track record wasn't great in either. He always had immense upside so maybe Coop can get him to reach that level but I get sick of having to rely on that train of thought just to keep my hopes up. Dealing Hudson for him is tough to swallow because much like Richard, the NL will prove weaker and his numbers will look better. It looked like Kenny was saying "this guy wouldve been impossible to acquire in the past" as he was talking about him but that could be video edit and not relating to him at all so I don't want to read to much into it. It does make sense though.

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Aug 1, 2010 -> 08:07 PM) People do understand this. People also understand that having a bat for 2 months and not just 1 would have been a smidge more helpful in the division race. We aren't the Yankees stocking up for the playoffs. QUOTE (Kalapse @ Aug 1, 2010 -> 08:59 PM) There's seriously no reason for someone like Luke Scott to clear waivers. This. We can preach about post deadline waivers and how you can find something. It's rare there is something of extreme value. Rios? Please, he was down and out in Toronto, massive salary, and minimal signs of being the man he is today or was in the past. We got lucky there. We also weren't exactly front-runners in the division, so if we are in first place, any half-a-brain gm from Detroit or Minnesota will block or attempt to block us from acquiring that "big bat". Not to mention how we play Detroit 7 times, Minnesota 6, and the Yankees for 3 in August before the deadline. A bat would be nice for those, not in the middle of or after. Playing the "just wait, it's not over for deals" card is silly. Sure something can and you'd hope will. It won't be a DH bat. DH's are usually as close to or are game changing bats. We won't see one if we remain ahead of those 2 clubs. And if we fall behind them, well, point your finger at not addressing out biggest need.