Pumpkin Escobar

QUOTE (watchtower41 @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 10:06 AM) Sure, maybe we could have got more for him... but I'll take getting one of the best set-up men in baseball in return for that hot garbage any day. Ya - I kind of like our return on that one. Most of the other guys listed wouldn't even have been able to net this.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 11:27 PM) The Braves are looking for offense and maybe even relief pitching. The Braves are willing to deal Escobar, but that'd have to be for a blockbuster package, like the rumored Holliday and Cabrera trade with Oakland. Heyward, Hanson, and Freedmon are as untouchable as Beckham. If I had to guess, the Braves were likely looking at Dye or Dotel/Linebrink. I wonder if we would be making a play at one of their former top prospects. The Schaefers of the world or Brandon Jones. I doubt it but there is no way we have any shot at a Heyward, Freddie Freeman, Hanson so I can't quite get it. Escobar would be a nice piece for us but not sure the cost. Personally it sounds like most are in agreement they want something minimal from us. A Josh Fields or a bullpen arm that we are beginning to not be able to move. I don't know what we could get but I wouldn't mind moving Fields there for a bullpen piece so we have room to deal someone or figure out what we can do to get McCann

QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 11:20 AM) Dude you are 100% on the "DUMB THINGS" comment. Man he has got those 2 monstrous sandbags (Rios and Wells contracts) just tied around his neck choking him down every day more and more. Way overpaying Wells and not Doc has easily got to be the biggest boneheaded blunder Ricciardi has commited up to now. Everything he does. He has been in charge there for 8 years with nothing to show for it. He only got the job because of his ties (and very minimal) to moneyball. Don't forget he was the guy who gave Burnett 5/55 a couple years back when it was pretty much still uncommon especially for a guy with so much of an injury history. Then when Burnett was hurt too much - he blamed him. As if he couldnt see what was coming. This among other amounts of money the guy has thrown around like Wells and Rios also - all after saying he could decrease payroll for them when he took the job. Everyone else didn't get the gig because they wanted more funds to compete with NY. And Boston for that matter. He trashed Adam Dunn on radio either this past offseason or during last season. Probably kicking himself for that since it wasnt his place and he couldve used that kind of bat. I'm pretty sure he ripped Wells leading up to him signing the contract. I think that is why he gave him so much because he regretted it and Wells was quoted as saying he wanted to leave. He ripped Keith Law - who was his former assistant. He makes horrible trades over and over. Then he has this - gift wrapped for him - a 33 year old, 1.5 year contract and he is holding out for a ridiculous offer. He is just retarded.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 11:27 AM) They wouldn't get him without one of those 2. But the Brewers do already have Hardy at SS. They should be able to get him no questions asked but I bet theyre reserved after dumping guys last year in Sabathia only to come up empty for their WS title. I am not sure if they'll deal Escobar if they dont have to. I wonder if they can build a package around Parra, Hardy, Salome and whatever else. I doubt it works w/o having Gamel and Escobar but they would really be asking for trouble dealing those kids.

Red Sox got him. Not White.

His velocity is down. Everyone always talks about how he can bring it if he wants and he can't. He sits around 94-95. Which isn't bad and his curveball is still unhittable. I still love that story about how the Twins scouts just tell their hitters not to even both swinging at it. It is a nasty pitch. His bigger problem is he isnt controlling the 94-95 or they time it and ends up needing to groove one at like 92. I was at the game Monday and he had a couple opportunities to prove he could still blow it by and just couldnt hit higher then 95. Maybe its the gun or maybe it's just him and we need to realize it. I think in the long run he'll be fine but I don't expect him on the club past this season. His price will be too much (10 mil +?), he is constantly out of shape in the offseason and during the season for that matter, and the guy has a screw in his arm. What other reasons are there not to deal him?

I am curious what offers they have received. I always find it a bit ridiculous or stubborn even when a GM or team ends up hanging onto their player and losing him to FA. Obviously this deadline for Halladay is a bluff. I think our offer is floating up there - below the Phillies potential offers and maybe someone elses. If they hold on Halladay - theyll get even less. Right now they can get a package of 4 very talented guys I'd say. You keep him and try to deal him next year - you'll get 1-2 and then some throw ins. You let him walk - well you may get a 1st rounder or some supplementals for him depending on where he signs. This whole "I want the world" thing is for the birds. People keep comparing the hauls Bedard and Tex got. That was more or less better scouting on the Rangers and Baltimores part...Guys like Miggy landed 2 very good players but not 4-5 good ones. I think once Ricciardi realizes he isn't getting that kind of package - we may have a shot at him. Take out the top flight prospect and our package could look very interesting to Jays. Problem is - if you remove that top flight prospect, a team like Boston who is loaded could swoop in and take him without putting in their Bucholz. Tough spot. I say if Halladay isn't dealt - Ricciardi needs to go. Just dumb things he's done up there.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 03:53 PM) So this means we'll have Richard, Colon, and Torres all starting in the same week? Wow... +1

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 03:46 PM) Well, back to the original point, I have a hard time fathoming we'll move anyone from our pen. With how guys like linebrink have looked as of late, Poreda's lack of emergence, and question marks on Richard if he is moved back into the pen...I would say this is looking to be accurate. Add in Matt T's departure shortly and I am beginning to agree with you. Had you told me a week ago - I thought the Pena trade meant a little more then just adding an arm for the sake of it.

I can see Kenny either letting this go or hitting something the last day. I knew he would copare the CQ comeback acquiring a big time hitter. Which is fine - assuming Quentin lives up to it with his performance and health. Pitching wise - I am not sure I am sold on him being content with trying Colon and Freddy in a month. I dont think he really wants to be in on Halladay at this cost - and I hope he isnt. But I can see him doing the "under-the-radar" move everyone keeps bringing up. I just think he is finding out who could potentially come available should their team tank then you'll see him act. Right now it's too quite for KW. Which usually is a sign in itself.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 02:14 PM) The last guy that happened to killed himself. Ya I remember hearing he overdosed or something but didnt ever see if he purposely did or not.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 11:32 AM) Well Torres cutter is his best pitch. I'm excited to see him... Did you mention his cutter on the future sox thing...I thought that it said a fastball 90-93, a slider, and a changeup. So by that - he added a cutter. Which is what I was getting at since it seems to be the thing our guys add. And if you're saying it's now his best pitch - I am interested. Unless you just meant his fastball with life is his cutter but the description I saw sounded like it was a two-seamer.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 11:08 AM) The link I posted has all that info Milk. Wasn't on most guys radars prior to the season due to his age but he's produced throughout the minors and has added a cutter to his arsenal. He might surprise all of us. Oh that cutter...A staple of the organization. How is Jeff Marquez's comin along with his yuck.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 11:11 AM) Best player? Based on less than one season of baseball? Our best player is Dye, no doubt. Arguments can even be made for Thome and Konerko. Mark Buehrle > * Best hitter I'd say Dye or Konerko... Last season though Quentin was our best player and if he can get back to that form - itd be hard not to view him that way again.

Anyone know what kind of stuff Torres has? Veloctiy? Offspeed? etc...

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jul 20, 2009 -> 02:54 PM) Dude...who do you think he is...Bartolo Colon...? Oooohhhh...you meant EXPENDABLE! haha thats why i went and edited it. Not the best choice of words but for the trade we are talking about. If he hauls a front-line ace like doc then that is exactly what he is. EXPANDABLE. I dont see him getting moved but ive had thoughts. Maybe it's because I had high hopes for that this offseason and didnt expect us to be 1.5 out. This offseason though you'll see him moved.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 20, 2009 -> 02:16 PM) Dotel has been a strike out machine this year. He is much more reliable than Tony Pena. I honestly could see Bobby Jenks get dealt to clear payroll if the Halladay thing is serious. Thats kind of what I've been thinking. I think he is our most expandable and biggest trade chip with Beckham. I dont think we can afford him much longer. I don't trust his arm. And I dont think it's any secret that he could bring in a lot of talent in prospects or be apart of this kind of deal. Edit: I shouldnt say Jenks is most expandable. I think he'll be missed and im nerous about who would fill in but I think we have guys that are very capable to do so rendering him expandable.

That is not a real quote...I find it hard to believe KW drops names like that.

QUOTE (danman31 @ Jul 20, 2009 -> 04:09 AM) What is so special about Drabek that would make the Blue Jays want to give up Halladay for him? He already had TJS and his Ks are way down since getting moved to AA. I'm not saying he isn't a good prospect, but why would he even be considered untouchable in the first place? All I remember is Manuel compared him to like Tom Seaver in an interview right when this whole Halladay thing started. He was a legit front-line prospect a couple years back I remember but why he is untouchable now is beyond me all things considered.

QUOTE (WSoxMatt @ Jul 20, 2009 -> 08:45 AM) GO SOX!! First game for me, will be there with my 3 kids and the wife!! QUOTE (kageman129 @ Jul 20, 2009 -> 09:49 AM) I will also be going for the first time in 2009! I can't wait! It'll be my first game of the season too...Well in Chicago. They'll be honoring the Miss Italian Americans from the Pageant they had last week. My lil sister will be on the field for that with the Queen and the other couple girls on the court.

I wouldnt mind getting Bailey or Harang. Bailey because of his upside and he has looked good in 3 of the starts e has had since being called up. Harang had been good for a nice 3 year stretch before encountering injuries and what not. He has been horrible his last 10+ starts for Cinci - I think I read that he hasnt won a game. A little change of scenery, put him on a competitive club where he isn't expected to be the Ace and that mythical Coop magic and maybe we'll have ourselves a ballplayer and he'll come at half the price of most of the big names.

I havent seen this mentioned on here but maybe I missed it. I was reading last week sometime about that goofy opt-out clause that Halladay, among other major leaguers who signed their contracts before 2007 have. The rule states that any player who signed a deal circa 2006 and earlier - that said player can demand a trade that following offseason. If the team doesn't trade him, he becomes a free agent on March 15th. They said the rule has only been used once by Javy Vazquez ironically and thats how he got to Chicago.

QUOTE (shakes @ Jul 17, 2009 -> 02:13 PM) He's an excellent CF'er defensively. He's being wasted in RF in Toronto, but there has been talk of Rios moving to CF and Wells going to RF next year. I know his numbers have been trending down, but last year was far from a bad year. Especially, if those numbers are for CF. His OBP was not very good, but he still threw up 70 extra base hits, including 47 doubles, and 32 stolen bases. This was in a pitchers park on one of the worst offenses in baseball. He's a great buy low candidate. I can't believe people are saying they wouldn't take him for half his contract? But, people want DeJesus or Teahan? Has anyone seen what we've been sending out to CF since 2005? He is worth 7-10 win shares in our park as a CF. He is worth what like 5 right now. Someone had a graph for it on here. I'd take him for half the contract in a heart beat.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 17, 2009 -> 12:01 PM) That'd be the smart thing to do. DFA Zito or just dump him straight up. Promote Alderson and Baumgarner to AAA and have them establish a relationship with Buster Posey Ya's tough to gauge obviously but if either of those two can live up to their potential and they manage to hang onto Lincecum and Cain. Yikes. If I had both of them as they do now - I wouldnt deal either of them. If they both reach max potential - wow. If Lincecum becomes to pricey or even Cain - you have fallback options and it's quite possible they can help them win by next season. I'll quote Josh Hamilton in saying "Look out".

Even if we took all of Zito's contract- i dont think theyre moving Alderson or Baumgarner...In fact, I think their front office said they wouldnt deal either of them for any bat.