Pumpkin Escobar

Ya - I missed that Tampa thing with Dye. It made sense but I never saw it. I've only seen him linked to teams and homer bailey for like a specific player.

Pretty funny. The Thomas one was awful though.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 16, 2009 -> 02:33 PM) Yes. We offered Jermaine Dye. Where did you see that?

Sorry - didnt finish up my post above. Someone walked into the office and I paniced and sent the post away. I'd like to get Rios at a discount if possible. He is still pretty Young. I think he could thrive in our lineup which is much better then Toronto's has been. It puts us in great position for negotiations with Dye next season and also with Quentins health issues. You can bring JD back at a cheaper cost to DH. If CQ goes down you shift Dye back out and Rios is in left. Not to mention. I dont think Greg Walker has anything to do with it, but I think it's no secret our park helps hitters and at worst would get this kid some confidence that it can help him offensively. If he puts up 07' numbers - he isn't a bad move. Minor problem is that contract.

I'm not sure what to make of Rios. I know he isn't worth his contract but I also feel like a change of scenery, a better club, a better shot at winning and our ballpark would help immensely.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jul 14, 2009 -> 11:00 PM) He was auditioning for the Cards... If he is serious about retiring at contracts end - as much as I hate to say it - if they want to give us Rasmus. I'll take it.

Moore will get the best value for him possible I would've thought a week ago. That was until they made that deal for Betancourt. If we can get Teahan for minimal. And by minimal - I want to hear a name I've never heard of because he is so miniscule in the grand scheme of things for our organization. Anything else - I'd rather just stand pat with Beckham, Alexi, Getz. Depth would be nice but we don't have a talent-rich enough farm to deal our better prospects for "depth". Our farm is very good. But our top-tier talent has moved up and whats left down there isn't enticing enough to land a Halladay so no reason to further downsize it. We just dealt a top 5 prospect of ours for Pena.

QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Jul 13, 2009 -> 02:30 PM) Pump they are in the US but awaiting clearance from the US Treasury (OFAC) to make sure they are doing bogus financial things like trying to send money back to the Cuban gov. Also they are waiting for background checks to finish and verify their ages and also work permits to be able to be declared Free Agents and then look for teams. The pitcher Yadel Marti is who I have suggested we go after but there is no way to gage whether he is truly MLB ready. He has tons more experience than Viciedo but the transition is very rough. Time will tell. Thanks. Ya I remembered going through this kind of talk earlier in the year and we will probably go threw it anytime a Cuban defects. With good reason too.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 12, 2009 -> 04:19 PM) 4 games is too much ground to make up with the schedule they have the way I see it. Dye, Jenks, Contreras, and Dotel need to go on the block ASAP while there are maximum teams still in it. And in the case of Contreras at least, while he is pitching well. I've kind of been in that same thought process since 06 ended. I thought the Tigers getting Cabrera would have them atop the division for a while, I saw us struggling to compete with the Indians and Twins as well. I was right on in 07' and not so much in 08'. This season I wanted the same thing. I thought by keeping CQ, Alexi, MB, Danks, Floyd and one of Konerko/Dye that the team could get a lot of young talent to surround themselves and fil lthe minors by trading off pieces mentioned by Marty. Then signing veterans in the offseason or dealing for big players with our newly acquired youth. I really want to see Jenks dealt. Even if people dont agree with the theory of his arm falling off cuz of those screws in it. It is just piece of mind and the fact he could net a big package of players. With them 3.5 out - I dont want to see it but at the same time, it feels like a mistake not to because of deminishing value of some of those guys. However, with how well Contreras looks. Floyd and Danks pitching better and Cy Buehrle on the bump. I am confident ths team can make a play for it. If Quentin can be CQ from the 1st half of last year - we take this division easily. If they faulter in August- it'll hurt us a lot. For right now though - I say come out blasting those first 2 weeks and see where we sit at the deadline.

I don't mean to twist the thread but most of what is going on with Halladay has been discussed immensely over the last 25 pages and until an update with us occurs - no point in really repeating everything over and over again. I did want to pose this question though in here instead of creating a whole thread. http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/articles/20...071209.txt#info Suggests in the article dealing Adrian Gonzalez. Would you rather have he or Halladay? And do you think the Peavy package would be enough/too much/too little? Personally - with Thome's contract up and Dye having an option. I'd almost see what kind of help we can get for our rotation by dealing a guy like Thome. Not much I'd imagine but perhaps move for him and play Kong or Gonzo at DH? I know we don't need offense but with those bats coming off the lineup possibly, Gonzalez is insanely affordable the next two seasons, and the uncertainty surrounding Quentin's ability to repeat any resemblence of 08'. I'd almost make a move for him and look other avenues for SP and RP. Including potentially dealing Dye next season if we exercise his contract. Or try to push Thome to Seattle with a bullpen arm for Washburn. I know they have the Griffey thing goin on but itll help them. Just a little topic to change the discussion a little.

Didn't Kenny say we shouldn't expect to get every Cuban when those two kids were available in the offseason? Whatever happened to those guys? One was a CF i think and the other a pitcher or something.

Interesting. I am not a Teahan fan though. I'd pass.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 02:51 PM) Alexie, Poreda and Flowers and a couple of single a prospects for Halladay and Rolen and I say the Blue Jays pull the trigger. I don't do that deal. The point of acquiring someone during the season is to make you better. Losing Alexi and Poreda while adding Halladay to the team isn't a huge boast when you're talking about a guy who is only going to make 9-10 starts. Even if he goes Cy Sabathia on us like last season with CC in Milwaukee, I dont think its enough. You make those kind of deals to add a huge help to your team not add and subtract. I understand you have to give a little to get something but you don't have to get anything if it's too expensive. Which ultimately this scenario is. The other can of worms you have to avoid when you do stuff like this is the whole "untouchable" player. If we called the Giants lets say about Cain (Lincecum may be too good for the example). They'd say he is off limits knowing that we probably wanted to move prospects for him and no deal that would be considered even is worth it to them with just straight prospects. Now if you said Alexi or CQ and prospects are - they'd probably be more inclined to listen. So there is no reason to go take a guy like Alexi, who is one of our better players and just throw him into the Halladay deal because they want a SS. If you're going to put him in a deal - you better make sure someone else is willing to pay more for that price. Which is why players get labeled untouchable. Because there is too much out there. This Halladay thing will become a dead issue. The Phillies are either going to pony their prospects or even Milwaukee/LAA...but if they dont, and he is sitting there on the deadline with riccardi's bluff being called - we could see him moved for much less then we think.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 04:09 PM) Unless he has serious arm trouble I'd imagine someone will offer more than the league minimum. He'll get more. I'm just saying he is getting paid from Toronto, similar to Frank, so it's not going to cost an arm and a leg if people aren't diving all over him. If he wants to get back out there, he'll take nearly any offer I'd imagine. There is no reason to hold out for 3-4 million and miss the entire season. You find a contender, sign with them for anything and then prove your worth so you can fetch a better contract this offseason. If he had any brains he would do that.

QUOTE (bighurt574 @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 01:22 PM) If Toronto is going to require a package involving Beckham, Danks, Alexei, etc., the Sox should back off. Halladay for $15 million a year for a year and a half would be nice, but I'd rather keep our young, proven talent and just spend that $22 million in free agency. This Halladay situation is not worth it if that is the price. Olneys word of one mlb ready prospect and two good prospects or something along those lines. If that is the case - I am all for it. However, if we are giving up prospects and just taking on 22 million in salary. I'd much rather just go out and sign Ben Sheets if he can pitch this year and give him 12 mil a year. Throw a 30 start minimum on the contract meaning he has time next season to miss 2 months if need be but if he is healthy for this stretch run this season - I think he and those prospects would be worth it. Especially considering how well Contreras is throwing. We essentially acquired "Aces" when Floyd and Contreras came back dominating from their struggles. How long it lasts is another story. But if Sheets is up for a 2 month contract at 5 million or a two year 20 mil...I'd pay it.

I dont see why any team wouldnt take a flier. It's like when they cut Thomas and he went to Oakland for the minimum. What is the risk? And whats the reward? The risk is he sucks and you cut him. The reward is you have a dominant lefty closer throwing middle relief and setting up.

QUOTE (Adam G @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 08:53 AM) I wonder if the Blue Jays will make us take Vernon Wells' awful contract. Don't remember if I mentioned this in my first post in this thread or not... Do you guys realize how awful that contract is? Most of us knew it was big in that it was 7 years 126 million. But it's like the reverse Hossa contract. 25 million was signing bonus but his salary is whats hilarious. Last season and this season he makes a total salary of 2 million out of that 126. 2 MILLION. Last season was 500k and this season is 1.5. Next year he makes a gigantic 12.5 million. He makes 23 mill in 2011 and then 21 mill the next few years after that....What a horrible, horrible contract.

I havent gone through all 22 pages on this but I don't mind the move. Allen was a good prospect. Not great but had very good upside with his bat. Maybe I am off base but I don't think the Sox saw him in their 3-5 year plans. Even with Konerko aging, I still feel he or Dye would be occupying first base the next few years. Obviously their contracts expire but I just don't see them going anywhere. In Pena, they got a guy with pretty good stuff. Anytime we acquire a starting pitcher with the resemblence of good stuff - all you hear about is how this guy is a Cooper project and can flourish with him. Why is this considered any different? He is cheap, has very good stuff, and young. His stuff can keep him in a 7th or 8th inning role with no problems. For right now he adds depth to the pen which we need. Some of you see this as a move to another move. It could very well be but more then likely it's the fact that we need depth in this pen because we have a 5 starter who cant get through the 5th inning and we cant afford to go out and get a replacement. This is a good move for the Sox.

I don't really plan on going through all 10 pages+ and reading everyones comments so I'll just throw out my two cnts and if I repeat or step on someone's ideas - my bad. Halladay would be a nice addition for us. For anyone, even if it costs quite a bit. He puts us in a great shot to win this year especially if Quentin can return healthy and to 08' form. Our offense has stepped it up and putting Halladay game 1 and Buehrle game 2...That is going to be tough to beat. Now if you're all in for this season, you'll make a big move. Our team scares me because of the age of our offense and contract situations for the future but thats irrelevant right now. They probably want big league ready or high-rated prospects. We don't have many we'd be open to dealing. Beckham and Danks are off limits. Poreda is available in this scenario and so should everyone else be. Richard isn't great but he is a 5 starter who is mlb ready. I think they'll want two upper-level prospects who are close to mlb ready on top of that. So your choice of Poreda, Flowers, Allen. My assumption is they'll bite on Poreda and Allen. And then I think they'll want probably 2 lower level high ceiling prospects which is going to be Carter and Hudson. My guess. So would you move Richard, Poreda, Allen, Hudson and/or Carter....That is a steep price for us. I think we can survive but KW and the Sox would need to up payroll for the next couple seasons because of our younger players who are due raises, and also because if you waste your prospects to acquire a Halladay - you better go all-in while you have him. Which means Thome is up - let him go or replace him with a big bat? I'd explore my options to find a 2nd baseman and even bullpen help. With all that said - I think we have a chance to land him if theyre interested. The teams with deep farms can't afford him or arent contending. The ones who can afford him tend not to have the prospects available or claim they arent so we should have a shot. Naturally the BoSox and Yankees scare me but the team I wouldnt be surprised to get him would be like Milwaukee. I know they claim their top prospects arent available but if JP is sitting there looking at a package revolving around Poreda and Allen or a package around Gamel and Hardy or Escobar + Salome and stuff...He'll gladly take Milwaukee's offer. And theyre in need of an arm. Who knows but I certainly hope Kenny has that Peavy offer on Toronto's doorstep. Halladay only has a few good years left IMO and even that scares me when you factor in our park. I'm all for going out and winning it this year though and then revamping in the future.

Odds are slim and none we can land Bumgarner. If there was a way to do it though with Dye + something, I'd bite...Even Posey, Alderson and I'd put Villona in that category. Maybe they can steal Ehire Adrianza, who lots of scouts really like. He is a SS so he has all the time in the world to develop as we have Alexi. They also have an OF named Rodriguez, I do not remember his first name but I remember seeing something on him as their most toolsy raw prospect. Big risk but I doubt we can get some of the above guys. Then again the Indians got LaPorta for a sure fire free agent, why can't we land Bumgarner for a guy with an option (that could be a forced exercised one) and still have type-A this or next season. I think it could be done. It's unlikely though. At this point lets add and go for it, but what? Realistically 2nd base is the only available position to add outside of SP...Both markets are weak.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Mar 1, 2009 -> 10:50 PM) Put together a package for Vernon Wells. Haven't gone through the whole thread but I saw this a couple minutes on the internet of Toronto getting involved in O.Cab. I don't think they'll deal a top prospect, although it should be what we require noting Cabrera's type-a status. I'd assume they'd bite on a pretty good player depending on how we play this, if we kick in something, if Oakland raises their stakes. This idea of Wells isn't a bad one. I know he is dramatically overpaid since he never quite repeated his big season(s) where he was given the money. The Jays do have an overstock in the OF. With Lind, Snider, Rios (another overrated player IMO) and Wells, you'd hope one of them could be had. I'd say the Cabrera deal and something decent from our end. If it is to be Wells, they'd have to eat it but I doubt we'll get him. I'd like to get Cecil, but with the loss of Burnett/health concerns with other arms/and Halladay most likely out the door, I don't see them dealing young, cheap arms. Our ceiling may be a guy like Luis Perez and another quality young arm. If I were Kenny though, I don't help O.Cab out unless I am getting a nice haul for him. Problem is, Kenny hasn't exactly been landing hauls for our players lately.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 04:13 PM) With Contreras, possibly Dye, and Thome coming off the books at the end of this season, even with raises for people and the shaky economy I think next year we'll be in a position to spend more than we were this year. I agree with this. I am hoping that if we are out of it we can move these guys for solid prospects as I am very concerned about arbitration next year. If we are able to take notes from the Cabrera situation, it may be in our best interest to move our guys at the deadline. Hopefully we are in a position of adding players for a playoff run but if not, so be it. Next offseason though. Not to get ahead of ourselves but since it was brought up, I completely agree that we'll have a lot of payroll flexibility and we'll be able to get discounts because of the economy. Off the top of my head some free agents I see us going after or would like to go after are: Roberts Figgins Crawford (not sure though if he has a option off the top of my head) Vlad Holliday Matsui Winn For pitching. I was talking about this with a buddy when we were discussing Bedards value and I do belive he is a FA. With Contreras coming off the books - I wouldnt mind taking a flier on him for half that or finding a guy like Lackey or Webb or something would be a big addition to this club. Especially if we see a regression from Danks and Floyd. Big insurance policy. Anyways...just my thought on the comment above. Hopefully this season goes well but I think that next offseason may be a telling sign why we were less committed to making moves and strapped for cash.

I didn't get to read everyone's comments but I wanted to throw my two cents in on this issue and the upcoming season. I have been a supporter of a firesale since 2007. In 2007, my opinions were proven right. In 2008, they weren't. This year, I would prefer a firesale for the same reason that I don't mind not having one. That reason being that the division is somewhat wideopen. In saying that, I think the Tigers last year were a bit of a fluke. I think theyre pitching will be better but I also think they are older and losing steam offensively. Guys like Sheff, Maggs, Guillen and Polanco didn't have huge years last season and it's tough to expect them to do much better this year just because of how old theyre getting. I do think guys like Verlander and Bonderman will bounce back a bit and I don't think Gallaraga or Jackson will repeat their moderate success in 08'. So basically, I think last year was a fluke yes but this year I don't think they're a lock to repeat 07' and see them as around a .500+ team. Cleveland to me is in an interesting situation. Last year, we knew they had one great pitcher, no bullpen and some offense. This year, I feel like it's the same thing. They have Cliff Lee, a better bullpen and possibly some offense. If Carmona can bounce back, Reyes live up to his STL hype, and someone like LaPorta can step in and provide the power bat that Hafner has left vacant in that lineup, then I think theyll be a decent team and maybe a very good team. The Twins will be the Twins. It's cliche and whatever you want to say but I can't describe how they manage to do it each year. They just do and I can only discribe it as hatred. The Royals will be better. I love some of the pieces they have. I think Grienke is coming into his own. Gordon needs to break out this year. Jacobs was a nice power addition and one of my favorite people theyve added is Alberto Callapso. I think he has a chance to be their version of Placido Polanco and be a real catalyst for that lineup. So that sums up the division but all I've told you is that everyone is mediocre it seems. To me, last year was a perfect time to firesale because no one thought we'd have a chance. Look what happened? This year, I'd like to firesale because guys are getting old and I think we should get some other good young pieces while our old men have value but the division is wideopen. So at the same time, it's a perfect chance to keep those guys and try to develop some of your own. Hoping those kids will learn from the veterans and while hoping the veterans can carry us. Do I expect to win it this year? No. Part of me thinks that is the problem with Kenny Williams approach. He has put this team together to have a potential shot at winning the AL central. A bad bad AL central and I think most of us want him to build a WS contender. Some people say that is enough, others say we just need to get in and anything can happen...i agree with that sentiment but during the preseason, you can't bank on it. You want to bank on a legit team, legit prospects or potential in positions...you dont want to be relying on "last chance" kind of players. Which I feel is what we are doing. If Anderson doesnt win it, I don't think he'll ever do it. Same with Fields. Same with Owens. Same with Getz and some of our pitchers. I'm very skeptical (not quite concerned) but skeptical on whether or not we'll see a repeat performance out of Alexi/Quentin/Danks. I know we won't see it out of Floyd. This is what makes this year a little tougher to swallow because we aren't banking on the usual Paulie/Dye/Thome thing because theyre slipping a bit (maybe not Dye). We are hoping theyll not fall off but we seem to be relying on guys who have only had one good year, and then on top of that, adding in so many other unreliable/unproven guys. Very Dangerous and possibly very stupid. Only time will tell I guess. I am hoping for Konerko to bounce back and see our young guys continue to develop but if not, I think Kenny will need to do some serious damage control at the deadline and make some big moves to change the culture of this club. He'll need to acquire lots of prospects and use the money to sign some FA's or he'll need to deal for a superstar like a Holliday and look to lock them up and continue building. Not sure what it will be but I am getting very excited for baseball.

Maybe they're just referring to losing and let people know that it isn't going anywhere. It happens there, has happened there for 100 years, and there is no real chance of it leaving or changing. I guess that may make sense. Its reverse psychology that way. Instead of saying "this is the year", they make it very subtle that they just intend on losing and selling the place/beer vendors out.

All the more reason Frank Thomas is the greatest hitter of this generation....And EVER.