Pumpkin Escobar

QUOTE (Tex @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 12:26 PM) There is no harm in fans speculating, K-Dubya's job is to analyze and if he wants Rios, to determine what it will take. His speculation is everything. If they don't need to shed payroll then I don't think the deal gets done because it is not an necessity for either team and I dont see us taking onthat contract while also giving up more of our farm (the price JP would want). IF they do need to then I don't see how the pressure is on KW to make the deal?

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 12:13 PM) If they had to shed payroll they would have dumped there ace. Instead they put him on the market and asked for a ridiculous offer. If they didn't get it, he was staying put. That in no way shape or form tells you that they needed to shed-payroll. You're absolutely right. It is reading that they have been trying to do it over the last year that tells me that. From when they wanted to sign Cabrera but couldn't shed payroll, to making their best player available, to dealing away Rolen, etc...You can claim all you want that isn't the case but the SPECULATION has come from a million different avenues and has yet to seem to be unfounded. Until I hear otherwise, it's safe to assume they are trying to do so. There is no harm in speculation. As of today, I'd assume theyre in good standing but they are bracing themselves for the harsh reality that becomes Vernon Wells. Dealing Rolen helped immensely but this "speculation" seems to come from everywhere you look. It's not like I made it up. http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu4qGVoBKVKUA...ry%3fid=4384253 http://www.drunkjaysfans.com/ http://bleacherreport.com/articles/211788-...s-season#page/9

QUOTE (BaseballNick @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 12:02 PM) Pure speculation on your part. If they needed to dump salary, then Halladay would have been traded. Nothing Phillips stated is off base if they are in good financial standing. Hence why you highlighted the "if" part of "If his superiors are telling him to dump contract". I obviously do not work for the Jays or talk to their ownership but from everything else I have read - it appears that is their mindset. So this isn't my own thought up speculation, it is what I have seen written which is all we pretty much to go off of. The point wasn't that they need to clear payroll - the point of my post was that the pressure is far from being on KW as Phillips implied and that if anything it would be on JP. Especially "if" they want to shed payroll. Which it seems like everyone thinks they need to and are trying to do. http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=olney_buster If they don't need to clear any payroll - well then I find it hard to comprehend why they wanted to deal their Ace or any other pieces. But good point - I just don't think Phillips has a clue. He is a guy who has been there and can shed some light but there is a reason why he isn't remotely near that kind of position anymore.

QUOTE (Tex @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 11:26 AM) I am assuming that KW and Co. are not worried about other divisions. Winning the Central is the most viable path to the playoffs. But I agree, the other is a possibility and not getting him isn't a huge loss. Definitely.

QUOTE (Tex @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 11:14 AM) Since the waiver claim goes to the team with the worse record, the Tigers would be the only team that matters we would be preventing from claiming him. It goes to the worst team in the AL then through the rest of it before the NL. I know how it works. Had he gotten past us - he could've gone to any other contender ahead of us. Which is quite a few because of our record. Detroit, NY, Boston, Tampa, LAA, TExas, and I think Seattle even. Those are all teams who could've potentially done harm to us if we made the playoffs and he was in their Uniform. We prevented that so him being pulled back isn't a huge loss to us.

QUOTE (Shamrock4Life @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 11:02 AM) Once again according to that espn.com Steve Phillips artice: The deadline for an action to be into MLB Offices is 12:30 pm central tomorrow morning. If nothing is in to the office by then, Rios is automatically recalled by Toronto. So if somebody has claimed Rios off waivers, then Toronto's best move is to negotiate up to 12:30 central tomorrow. Especially if Toronto ownership wants the salary shed, JP has no pressure on him at all. Assuming the White Sox won the claim, you wait for KW to make an offer (or if you haven't heard from him you float an offer). If you like KW's offer, you sit on it until 12:29 to see if the pressure is getting to KW and he ups his offer. If KW is really banking on getting Rios all the pressure is on him to make sure he beats the deadline. If JP's orders are to shed the contract, all he has to do is accept whatever KW has on the table or if nothing is on the table just give his rights to the Sox. This to me is why Steve Phillips works at ESPN and not with the Mets. If JP's superiors are telling him to dump the contract - than the pressure is on him. I get that he cant just sit on an offer but ultimately he needs to take what Kenny offers so he has to sit inthe pressure cooker hoping KW doesn't make him look stupid with the haul he brings in. Now he can play chicken but it's not as though Kenny is desperate for an OF. If we claimed Rios, we are doing one of two things - trying to get him on our club or prevent him from going elsewhere. If he stays in Toronto, we continue on with our full OF and focus on the stretch ahead and then check on him in the offseason. We also know he isn't goign to a fellow contender so I fail to see the pressure. Kenny by no means needs to make this deal. It is a nice opportunity but it will be there again in 3 months without causing any potential hiccups to our club down the stretch. Silly steve phillips.

If they're serious about trading him there is no real point to pulling him back until the deadline. Why risk doing so with someone like Kenny Williams (who likes to "gamble")? From their end they have no clue what he is capable of putting together in a package for Rios if they held out to the last second - they could get everything they desire. I dont see the gain in pulling him back unless they absolutely dislike our farm and would rather take the risk in the offseason. It'd be yet another silly move by Ricciardi, you gain nothing by pulling him back early and only lose out on potentially getting the deal he would want from our club.

I don't think he was pulled back. I think he knows we have some valuable pieces and is trying to get them. Meanwhile, I see Kenny just laughing off JP's offers and telling him that he'll consider him for a position when JP gets let go for messing this up too.

Getting inside a day remaining...You'd assume we'd have landed him if we were going to. I'm sure KW gave JP a package to work with similar to the BoSox with Adrian Gonzalez. And if Ricciardi wants to keep bluffing then I'm sure he'll end up not dealing him. We're luckily in a position of power where we are playing well, willing to take on the money, and have our OF set. Adding Rios isn't a necessity but just a big addition. Ricciardi I'd assume is probably playing this like the Halladay move and it just isnt. So who knows. I hope Rios is in a Sox jersey by tomorrow though.

This whole thing is very interesting to me. On one hand - we have Ricciardi - who is just the biggest moron known to man apparently. Keeping in my the bad contracts and the inability to deal Halladay for a very good package of player, he is now in the midst of dealing away a very productive/young/hyped OF at possibly the lowest value Rios has ever been at. Naturally, he is claiming they won't deal him for nothing but he cannot afford to overplay his hand again. It's no secret Wells is locked in up there and Lind is a beast. Snider is next on the agenda and played well enough at points this season for me to presume they'd be willing to turn the position over to him next season (if Rios is gone). So they didn't clear salary, you can't trade your ace anymore until the offseason and if you do - you'll undoubtedly receive less than during this season and be seen as the class clown, and you have a log-jam of talent and money in that OF. The move has to be made and at a cheaper cost IMO. From our end, I don't get the move from a "timing" standpoint. I think Rios could finally reach his potential out here because his big knock was never developing that power. In our park - we could see a surge of sorts. Great defender and fills the CF hole. Just the timing scares me because of when will he play? You're going to bench who? So you're causing those issues both with Rios and with our present OF, where we have Dye who deserves his spot, Pods has more than earned his with the boost he brought us, and Quentin who is trying to get healthy (you aren't going to bench a potential MVP bat). So like I said - it doesn't seem to have a positive effect on the atmosphere as most trades for an All-Star caliber player would. Then you have the other side effects where you are basically telling one of Thome, Dye, Pods that they are gone next year. Seemingly very popular and respected guys in the clubhouse so who knows how well that goes over. And you're bringing on another 12 mil (albeit I think Rios will be worth that money in Chicago) while dealing away more prospects. Just not sure about it. Personally, I think you have to do it and not allow him to be dealt elsewhere in the offseason if we don't have a plan for CF in the immediate future. He solves a huge void for this team and is into his prime (not playing like it but he has unlimited potential) and I am not sure if I would roll the dice on it with how our situation is. Tough call.

Here's myopinion on this... For one - I think he is a very good player who still hasnt tapped his full potential. I think his power could come around in our park and I think he is nearly worth his salary right now. My concern is this- we havebeen playing well. Pods/Q/Dyein the OF has been solid. What If fear is bringing a guy like Rios inand someone immediately looks at next season. Be it Thome,Dye, or Pods...Theyll loook at this trade as a gaurentee someone is gone in the offseason and will effect their play. My spacebar is f'd up btw. But thats what I fear is that those guys will not be able to focus.

QUOTE (Brian @ Aug 7, 2009 -> 01:30 PM) Who knows how hard he can throw now as well. I thought they were sayin he was hitting mid 90's?

QUOTE (kev211 @ Aug 7, 2009 -> 01:00 AM) What about the scottie pippen look alike at sox games. I havent seen him in a few years though. I was thinking the same thing. I am fairly certain that just was Scottie. I saw him at the Cubs Sox game a year ago in Wrigley. Scottie is still patrolling the games.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 6, 2009 -> 10:06 AM) Or even first half 2006. As I recall, I was more excited about that team's chances as they were destroying teams. Very true. 05' result though.

No offense to Mike Caruso but he shouldn't be what we are comparing Beckham too. I agree that the Beckham love is beyond hype now but it seems to be all in good fun. Well, until today, when I read Rosners column. The main difference between the two is that Beckham has the pedigree, where with Caruso, he didn't. Caruso was a second round pick - very good ball player but he wasn't the 1 or 2 best hitters out of NCAA. Only to not be taken because of concerns on his ability to remain at SS and have the same power in the majors. Even with those concerns - Beckham was still a top 10 pick and if you ask some GM's. He is making a case for needing to have gone higher. I'm not going to seriously say the kid is a HOF player but he is a very good ballplayer. What he is doing isn't a fluke. And he in no way should ever be seriously compared to Mike Caruso. Theyre two totally different types and breeds of players.

If we can start going first half 2005 on everyone for the rest of this season that'd be great. Win the first two and take the pressure off for the remaining 1 or 2. This team is starting to get me excited.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 6, 2009 -> 09:53 AM) Really? I don't remember that ever drawing criticism. I agree. I think most people I've seen on here or talk to agree that Beckham, among others, were off limits.

Feel free to merge this into the Catch all Beckham thread. I just wanted to post that title up there. http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=311957 Good read. If someone posted this and I missed it. My bad.

Hahn said it the other day that he had a chance to see the majors. Let's see what he does in AAA. Hopefully we found a gem in that draft.

I know it seems like many dont like the slayer name. But my buddies and I have fun with it. He, MB, and Quentin we can texts about inserting whatever pitcher or hitter they face then say - Slayed, or Conquered or Hunted. Referring to our nicknames for said players - The Slayer, The Bounty Hunter for MB and The Conquistador for Carlos. It's quite enjoyable to have Slayer added to the mix.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Aug 5, 2009 -> 01:23 PM) ...check out Jeff Francouer's rookie stats and remember how people were so ga-ga over him too... .300/.336/.549/.885 70 GP, 272 AB, 14 HR, 20 2B, 1 3B, 45 RBI, 11BB it would seem like the lack of walks and reliance on homers made this predictable, but Francoeur was hitting .300 over 70 games with a ton of doubles...doesn't that sound familiar? His career line is currently a disappointing .266/.308/.424/.732 and the power numbers have been relatively down since 06 - just 82 career homers. So what happened to Jeff Francouer? Couldn't the same thing happen to Beckham? I'm sure there were guys who did similar or worse to Beckham who ended up being fantastic ballplayers. Francouer - maybe I am wrong but he isn't the natural kind of ballplayer Beckham is. Two sport guy - good at both but no real shot at great. I dont think people are seriously getting carried away theyre just having fun with his success right now. No reason to not.

With how well Alexi performed and seeing what Morales is doing - I think teams will give some of these guys much more of a chance.

Who is the Cuban flamethrower who snuck over most recently? I don't believe it's any of the 2 arms up there but I cant think of the guys name. These guys have all been here since like last offseason but one came over 2 months ago i think and brings it.

I know this thread is about Dye's extension but I have seen a few posts touching on Alexi. I'm all for bringing Dye back and letting him play RF/DH. Depending on what we find to replace Thome as a LH Power bat or Dye in Rf. I know the idea has been tossed around a lot with how well Beckham is playing but I don't think we should be looking into moving Alexi unless it is basically straight up for a very good MLB player. I think it is his 2nd year here and his first playing short. He is still learning the game a bit with regards to how it is played here and his defense, among other things I like to think will improve. He has a great contract, a world of talent and unless you're bringing back another beast - I just don't think he is worth moving.

Baseball tonight was saying since June 26th or something he leads all of AL baseball in avg and soemthing else... Kid is definitely a beast.