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QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Aug 10, 2017 -> 06:05 AM) Watched the first episode of Mr. Mercedes last night. Really good so far, and it follows the book pretty closely. The opening scene is gruesome and just like the book's opening. I like Brendan Gleeson as Hodges, even though in the book he wasn't Irish...well, at least it was never mentioned that he was Irish. Harry Treadaway is perfect as Brady Hartsfield. I'm looking forward to see how the season plays out. I was just coming here to make a similair post. This looks like it could turn out to be the best TV series based on a SK novel yet.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 05:01 PM) Most research shows kids form their permanent sports attachments at 8-12...so they've already lost half a generation of potential young fans. That's not necessarily true. I'm sure they haven't gained as many fans as they would if they were winning, but I became a fan of the team somewhere around 90-91. They weren't exactly winning fans with their play on the field back then. But the alternative was the Cubs, and my best friend was already a Cubs fan. So I had to be different from him. Especially when we picked teams on my MLB game for my NES.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 02:14 PM) Then how come attendance was lower in 2009 than in 2008 which was lower than 2007 Because nobody really believed in that 2008 team. Justifiably so as it turns out. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 02:14 PM) Being in first place for the vast majority of the season doesn't make people want to come to the park due to what they did the year before? Kind of makes you wonder why they showed up and paid big bucks in 2005 for the WS considering it had been 46 years since they even went to one of those, and 88 since they actually won. 2006 was bigger because the team forced season ticket buys for WS tickets. I remember the media roasting the fans in 2005 about the lack of attendance throughout the year. "This team is in first place, where are the fans?" Looking back now, it did go up. But you hit the nail on the head with your last sentence. Attendance usually doesn't jump significantly year-to-year without a big boost to the season-ticket sales. The season-ticket sales don't go up unless something significant happened the year prior. Winning the WS is significant. Going to the playoffs 2 or 3 years in a row is significant. Being in first place for a few months of the season is not.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 01:34 PM) When they are winning games and in first place, why does 2009 or 2011 matter? The White Sox fans not showing up in 2012 really spooked this team to new heights. We didn't show up in 2012 because the team didn't do anything in 2010 or 2011 to make us believe that 2012 would be any different. The big attendance jumps don't really happen during the season. They happen in the prior off-season. That's why the 2006 attendance was higher than 2005. And really, the loss of fans from 2011 - 2012 was pretty small compared to the year-to-year losses 5 years before and 5 years after. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 01:34 PM) There have been a lot more people at games than I thought this year though. That will be tested during the week and when the kids go back to school. They are trying $1 hot dog Wednesday to see if that helps. So those ticket sales must really be meager. Family Sunday really is taking off. Almost 30k yesterday. And over 30k to get a piece of crap jersey on Saturday. That's really the good news in all of this. Give the fans something to believe in with a stated goal in mind and they'll actually support the effort. If only they would've done this 10 years ago.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 12:49 PM) This is the one truth in here. The rest of it is irrelevant. What the team was purchased for in 1980 has zero do do with how the business is run today. To me it is obvious that they worry about the fan base, as they have spent pretty much a decade trying to add to teams to quickly put results on the field as they are obviously fearful that the fan base will dessert them in droves... and they regularly have, not just in down times, but even in years where they are in first place all season long and in playoff years. It's almost like fans expect something a little better than being in first place "most of the season" or having one lone post-season appearance in the last decade...

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 10:47 AM) A measure of the quality of a fan base isn't that they pack them in when winning. It is if they show up when they aren't. That's kinda how attendance works. When you go years and years without making the playoffs with no end in sight, fans tend to get frustrated and stop going. The teams with "good" fanbases tend to be the ones that are in the playoffs or at least in contention year after year.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 09:21 AM) And outside of that 8 year stretch they are the historical absolute worst fan base of all of the old time franchises. Outside of that 8 year stretch, what have they really had to root for? A couple of Championships that happened long before most of their fans were born, and an appearance in the WS in the 50s followed by many, many years of nothing. One of the things that really made it jump was the new stadium in the 90's. It's scary how much they mirror the White Sox.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 07:08 PM) The radio quote shows what the cubs winning can do to the Sox. The Sox were booted off of the most popular sports station in Chicago and replaced by the Cubs. The Sox are going to suffer because fans don't know of or care about the new station. So to say things like marketing, revenue, viewership, etc doesn't have a big impact is not true. As the example I gave shows, the Cubs can continue to kick us down the ladder. The Sox didn't get booted out by the Cubs. WSCR bid on the radio rights for the Sox, they just chose another station, which opened up the opportunity for the Cubs to fill the void. This all happened before the Cubs won the WS.

I've always liked this one from RA Dickey. It's one of his cards in MLB the Show 16.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 02:19 PM) I believe your assumption that for Sox fans being a Cub fan, or going to Cub games is a substitute is 100% wrong. The MUCH more likely outcome for an upset Sox fan is they quit going to games and watching games, as we have seen this happen in the past. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 02:24 PM) Again, I think your assumption that these are all Ex-Sox fans is wrong. This. I've met maybe 2 people in my entire life that have "switched sides". And it happened years ago when they were pretty young and both teams were still bad. I have met more people that insist they are fans of both teams.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 02:13 PM) You are looking at it too simplistically. Sox fans were not mad at the Cubs trade at all because they beat out everyone else with their offer. If all offers are equal you don't trade with teams that you compete for resources with. JR is probably thinking if the Cubs win a second World Series while his team has back to back 100 loss seasons it may devastate his business. Advertisers stop coming, fans stop coming and watching or decide to follow the Cubs while they are winning, Chicago media puts pressure on prospects to play well instantly like the Cubs, etc. These are all things a reasonable owner will take into account, just like a reasonable owner wouldn't trade within his division for the same reasons. Your immediate competition doing well while you suck is not good for business. I think, for the most part, the Sox and Cubs aren't really competing for the same customer base. At least not as much as everyone seems to think. In 2006 the Sox attendance was a little over 2.9 million. The Cubs was over 3.1 million. There are enough fans to go around for both teams.

QUOTE (Swingandalongonetoleft @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 01:33 PM) Linkin Park singer Chester Bennington, 41 Wow. I was supposed to go with my family to see LP in concert in August.

QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 09:02 AM) M&H had someone on (missed the beginning of the interview) saying "He feels like he slides faster head first". I don't know if that's true, but isn't there more drag sliding head first? I googled it a little bit but there doesn't appear to be conclusive evidence as to which way is faster. I supposed it "feels" faster because you are already leaning forward a little when you run and it's more natural than having to completely shift your body around to slide feet first. Overall, I think it really depends on the situation. Sometimes it's not so much about getting there faster, it's more about avoiding the tag or disrupting the throw to break up a double play. But I think it's pretty well known that sliding head first is much more dangerous.

QUOTE (KagakuOtoko @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 01:11 PM) To let Ocare fail? I was talking about dropping the idea of a repeal.

This is probably the best decision he's made since being voted in. Do we clap?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 03:00 PM) Sustained success does result in many more bandwagoners jumping aboard. And honestly, those fans were a key part of our attendance figures from 2006 to 2008. Unfortunately, we couldn't string together enough playoff appearances to keep those bandwagoners for a lengthier period of time. That actually sums up this whole thing pretty well.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 02:53 PM) Why would it be any different if they started having more success? The possibility of choking or fading will always be there. It'd be nice to try it once. Just to see what happens...

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 02:44 PM) The thing about 2005, the White Sox were never not in first place. First place from day one until the end of the season and 11-1 in the playoffs. About as dominating as can be. Yet in September, they didn't even draw 50k today for a 3 day series vs. KC. That was the weekdays following Labor Day weekend when all the kids went back to school. The attendance for those games was probably mostly made up of the season ticket holders. Which we all assumed was pretty low. That makes the 2.3 million total for the season look that much more impressive IMO. FWIW, they followed up with 80K plus in the weekend series following those games and never had less than 25K in any of the home games after that.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 02:19 PM) Even in the 60's the White Sox were trying to move. Do you think of the the 1960's White Sox when you think about successful teams? I mean sure they made their first WS appearance in 40 years and then followed it up a few 2 place finishes but nothing to really brag about... It was similair to 2005. One oddly lucky year in the middle of a lot of bad ones.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 02:02 PM) There has been at least 3 times in the last 50 years that the White Sox have been almost moved because they could see greener pastures. Two of those were long before the evil JR empire took over this team. The White Sox haven't been truly big market successful, even when they have had success. That's because they've had so little success. The truly successful teams have had more playoff appearances in the last 10 or 15 years than we've had in the last 100.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 01:32 PM) I remember when Sox fans used to say that a playoff appearance was enough. Then it became a World title would be enough. Now they have to win every single year. Knowing this fan base, they would turn into the Atlanta Braves who didn't even sell out playoff games. We just need to stop comparing ourselves to the Cubs who are the biggest attendance anomaly in baseball and compare ourselves to what "normal" teams do when they don't play well. Just look at the teams in our own division. The Royals had attendance around 1.3 to 1.5 million every year for years. Then they went to the WS and *only* drew 1.9 million. Then 2.7 million the next year when they won. Last year they missed the playoffs and their attendance went down. I'm sure it will go down even more if they miss the playoffs again this year. The Indians, even with a WS appearance last year haven't cracked 2 million since 2008. The Twins attendance has been steadily declining since they moved into their new stadium. They've been to the playoffs once since then. We need to quit acting like the White Sox attendance isn't completely normal for what this team is and has been for several years.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 10:36 AM) One thing would be to look at all time top attendance figures. You can blame JR all you want but there are only 5 teams that have an all time top attendance mark lower than the White Sox. That to me indicates they are not in reality a large market team. Even when everything goes right, the people don't come out like they do under similar circumstances in other cities. Actually, there are 6. The A's, Nationals, Royals, Reds, Rays and Pirates. What's interesting in looking through all of them individually, is that most of them set their all-time attendance records in a year where one of the following happened. 1) They had 2 or more consecutive playoff appearances in the years prior. Or in the case of the 2011 Giants, they were in the middle of an every other year WS championship streak. 2) It was their first year of existence. The 1993 Marlins and Rockies. The 1998 Rays, The 2005 Nationals. 3) It was their first (or last) year at a stadium. 2008 Mets, 2010 Twins, 2004 Padres. The only real anomalies are the 2007 Dodgers, the 1997 Orioles, the 2008 Tigers and the 2011 Brewers. I'm not sure what was special about the years they hit their attendance highs.Even the teams that have lower records than the Sox fit into one of these categories. 1993 Rockies 4,483,350 first year of existence 2008 Yankees 4,298,655 It's the Yankees. The one year out of an 18-year span they didn't make the playoffs. 1993 Blue Jays 4,057,947 2nd of back to back WS wins. Skydome had a capacity of over 53,000 2008 Mets 4,042,045 Last season at Shea Stadium 1993 Braves 3,884,720 3 consecutive playoff appearances (including 2 WS) in 91, 92 and 93. 2007 Dodgers 3,857,036 Consistently around 3 million pretty much every year. Not sure what's special about this specific year. 2010 Phillies 3,777,322 Consecutive playoff appearances from 2007 - 2011. Won WS in 2008. 1997 Orioles 3,711,132 team drew over 3 million every year between 1992 and 2001 (minus strike year). 97 was second playoff appearance in a row 1998 Dbacks 3,610,290 first year of existence 2007 Cards 3,552,180 6 playoff appearances in 7 years prior. WS win in 2006. 2002 Mariners 3,542,938 Went to ALCS in 2000 and 2001. Won 116 games in 2001. Attendance steadily declined in following years. 1999 Indians 3,468,456 midst of sellout record, won division 4 years prior 2012 Rangers 3,460,280 went to WS in 2010 and 2011. 2006 Angels 3,406,790 Consecutive playoff appearance 2 years prior and 3 years after. 2011 Giants 3,387,303 Middle of an every other year WS championship. Won it in 2010, 2012 and 2014. 2008 Cubs 3,300,200 First back to back playoff appearance since 1908. Steadily declined until next playoff appearance in 2015. 2010 Twins 3,223,640 first year of new stadium (has gone down every year since) 2008 Tigers 3,202,645 no idea? WS 2 years prior. Payroll jumped about 45 million 2004 Astros 3,087,872 Pretty good jump from 2003. Went to NLCS. 2005 attendance was actually lower. 2011 Brewers 3,071,373 No idea? Pretty good jump from 2010. Went to NLCS in 2011. 1993 Marlins 3,064,847 first year of existence 2009 Red Sox 3,062,699 Build up from previous years. Didn't go down much 2 years after either. Haven't cracked 3 million mark since 2012 2004 Padres 3,016,752 first year of new stadium Never above 3 million since. 2006 White Sox 2,957,414 year after WS win 1990 A's 2,900,217 3rd consecutive WS appearance. 2005 Nationals 2,731,993 First year of current iteration 2015 Royals 2,708,549 2nd consecutive WS appearance. 1976 Reds 2,629,708 2nd of back to back WS wins 1998 Rays 2,506,293 First year of existence 2015 Pirates 2,498,596 Third consecutive year of playoff appearances The problem is that 2005 pretty much came out of nowhere. The fans came out about as well as you can expect for a team that was predicted to finish 3rd or 4th in the division and hadn't shown a lot of promise in the years past. Then in 2006 we came out in droves ready to support the team as much as we could. But they fell short and then 2007 happened and we all figured it was back to the same ole, same old once again. Sure we got teased a little in 2008 but I don't think anyone really believed that team would do much. And we've gotten nothing since then. I'm positive the Sox would support a consistant winner/contender. We just haven't been given the chance yet.

I was off Monday and yesterday. This year we also get the Friday before Labor Day weekend off as well. It's nice to get a couple of 4-day weekends.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jun 30, 2017 -> 10:08 AM) I freely admit that if not for nearly all of our friends and family being in the Chicago area, my wife and I would have fled to somewhere on the west coast already. Gonna be interesting to see what increasing temperatures do to all of the migration currently heading to the sunbelt over the next few decades though. A couple of years ago when I was job searching we were seriously considering moving out of state. Friends and family is mostly what has kept us here. That and not wanting to uproot our kids from their schools. But with our youngest turning 16 our reasons for staying are becoming less and less. I could see the possibility of us leaving the state within 10 years. Although the idea of starting completely over in a new city/state is a bit scary. At least here we know where to turn if we need help with something and we've built a good relationship with a lot of businesses over the years. Banks, repair shops, construction companies, etc...

Just imagine if we had the possibility of picking someone else for president. Like if there was some way we could ask everyone who they want to be the president and whatever name was picked the most would get the job...