Quin

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 7, 2011 -> 09:13 PM) Getting the #1 picks two years in a row shouldn't ever be considered "successful" for a GM. I know you two fight, but you should have been able to get the sarcasm there. Unless you we're just reiterating his point and I feel stupid. Also, if we're going off GM success, then Kenny is...average. Like this team has been.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 7, 2011 -> 09:34 PM) Good start for Rios after 2 games 5 for 8 with power. Maybe Frank's visit had something to do with it. Hitting coach.

I love agreeing with J4L for once.

I blame Walker and Ozzie. Morel (and Beckham) both we're confident and had pop when they first came up. Now they looked scared. And Ozzie sits Morel everytime he has a good day.

Rios has power back? Hopefully he hits .600 the rest of the year and the Angels like him. Lilli has to play over Dunn against lefties here on out.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 7, 2011 -> 01:38 PM) Yeah, yeah, so I was in a bumping thread move. Tyler Flowers has 9 plate appearances since being called up. Castro was good for at least 1, if not 2 starts a week while healthy. AJ has had 2 starts off since Castro got hurt (other than the AS break). He had July 19th and July 31st off. AJ also played as a sub in both of those games. AJ Pierzynski has played in every game since Castro got hurt for the Sox. AJ since the AS break is hitting .206, .657 OPS. "I don' trust rookies. Dey don' know how to pay da focking game"

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 7, 2011 -> 01:23 PM) Or take back the Javy deal and stick Chris B. Young in CF. That would be a pretty potent line-up. Quinarv, where is Chris Sale in your line-up/roster rendition? Starting in Charlotte or Birmingham? Rotation depth? 2B is another obvious weakness with Getz. Keeping Uribe would have solved that infield issue (yeah, I know it wasn't realistic to pay him as a starter heading in 2009). But it was a big mistake not to keep him on the roster SOMEHOW. You really can't play Juan Pierre in CF, either. It would have to be Viciedo in RF, Sweeney in CF and Pierre in LF. Not with Juan's arm. Sale is in Charlotte getting his arm ready for when Peavy leaves. I miss Laundry Baby Pimp (my sister-in-laws phonetic mis-hearing of "Juan Uribe is a pimp"). Still, Sweeney is having a hell of a time in that OF since he's not a CF and now covering for Pierre and Dayan. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 7, 2011 -> 01:25 PM) Chris Young really hasn't been that dominant of a bat and he's got a contract that is moderately expensive for his performance as of this year. Thank you. Chris Young kinda sucks. QUOTE (chisoxt @ Aug 7, 2011 -> 01:39 PM) I would take Mike Rizzo over KW any day. In the limited he has been there, he has done a nice job with the Nats, though it was stupid of him not to have pedaled Dunn last year.Whether he 'screwed' Kenny last year at the trade deadline is anybody's guess, but in my view if he did renig on a deal that would have sent Jackson and another Sox prospect to Washington in return for three months of a slumping Adam Dunn, it probably saved Kenny from making one more of his stupid deadline deals. Rizzo's approach of scouting, drafting, and player development is the way to go in today's game, and until JR understands this, it will be a long time before this franchise contends on a consistent basis. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 7, 2011 -> 01:41 PM) Jayson Werth's $126 million and .222 average/.707 OPS fully agree that blowing that kind of money on Adam Dunn is crazy. Until the White Sox understand that you can't blow that kind of money on players and you have to draft and develop like the Nationals do, they'll never succeed. Balta answered it. But seriously, Mike Rizzo may be the worst GM in all of baseball if Ed Wade didn't exist. Hands down. He handled Riggleman poorly, Werth, blew trading Dunn, and of course when you can draft Strasburg you "develop"players well. Other than Stras and Storen, I can't think of another player he developed. QUOTE (rowand's rowdies @ Aug 7, 2011 -> 01:43 PM) That is one of the few lineups I could think of that would be worse than our current one. How is that worse? I'd take Viciendo Sweeney and Getz over Morel Dunn and Rios this season. Who is this mythical Viciendo? I'm a huge Dayan Viciedo fan, I have a Viciedo shirt. So yes, he beats Dunn. Sweeney beats Rios. Getz is barely better than Morel and that's not counting the D upgrade of Morel at 3rd and Beckham at second. Also, Getz is made of glass so Lilli or Eduardo Escobar would be at 2nd. But also, on paper, going into this year, without 20/20 hindsight, Rios and Dunn >>>>>>>>> Sweeney & Getz QUOTE (Vance Law @ Aug 7, 2011 -> 01:57 PM) um, Jim Thome Thank you.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 7, 2011 -> 02:25 PM) Most times with a runner on 2nd and no one on out the manager just tells the hitter to get the runner to third. Lillibridge chose to bunt instead of trying to hit the ball to right. I'm sure Lilli wanted to bunt, even though he sucks at it, and Ozzie is the only manager in the world who would ask him to in that situation. And you know Walker preaches pulling the ball, so he probably wouldn't hit it to right

I almost thought Peavy would pull a Contreras there.

QUOTE (rowand's rowdies @ Aug 7, 2011 -> 12:56 PM) KW has made a few major mistakes in the last few seasons that have made us question him as our GM. IF you look at the other moves he has made, he's done pretty well. But the mistakes he has made have been big ones. Ones that combined could definitely be fireable offenses. 1) Swisher for Gio and Sweeney+ 2) Peavy for Richard 3) Claiming Rios off Waivers 4) Teahen for Getz 5) Jackson for Hudson+ 6) Signing Dunn Luckily KW has rid himself of mistakes 4 and 5 salary wise. But if you look at Peavy, Rios, and Dunn you've got over $40 million in salary that could have been replaced with the young cheap players traded for swisher and jackson and with a different free agent instead of dunn. We would have had an extra $27 million in the offseason without Peavy and Rios. Who knows what would have happened, but here's a could have been 2011 White Sox Roster. c - AJP/Flowers/Castro 1b - Konerko/Berkman 2b - Beckham/Getz 3b - Beltre/Morel SS - Alexi/Vizquel OF - Quentin/Sweeney/Berkman/Pierre/De Aza DH - Viciendo/Berkman SP - Buehrle SP - Danks SP - Floyd SP - Hudson SP - Gio SP - Humber RP - Frasor RP - Santos RP - Thornton RP - Sale RP - Ohman RP - Crain I added Beltre and Berkman as free agents, who could have both been had. That team is about $25 cheaper than the current one and a lot better. 6 major mistakes and we've got our current team... We don't have Frasor if we have Hudson. We have an OF of Q-Pierre-Sweeney. No Morel or Beltre if we have Getz, Gordon would have been at 3rd. Isn't here either. Berkman would not have come here. He didn't want to come here. Humber isn't here if we have Gio and Hudson. If he is, he's a relief, but we got him as Peavy insurance, so we wouldn't have gotten him. Richard for Peavy gets done every single time at the time. We wouldn't be All In so Sale isn't a RP. So really, the team is SP - Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, Hudson, Gio. This is the obvious best part of the team. That's just sick. RP - Santos, Crain, Thornton, Ohman, Pena, Lindsay, Infante. That pen is OK. Not like the current one. C - AJ/Castro 1B - Konerko/Fields 2B - Getz/Lillibridge SS - Alexei/Lillibridge 3B - Beckham/Lillibridge LF - Viciedo/De Aza CF - Pierre/De Aza RF - Sweeney/De Aza DH - Quentin/Fields That is one of the few lineups I could think of that would be worse than our current one.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 7, 2011 -> 12:01 PM) The Hunter deal wasn't a bad contract until this year, especially for a CFer. If you think about it, if we had Hunter for that whole time, we never would have had to pick up Rios. Hunter gave them 3 solid years at least. Granted, next year for Torii doesn't look like a good deal at all. Rios has given us one out of 2 1/2 seasons with the Sox, and we still owe him for at least 3 more. That's the nature of long-term deals for players in their 30's, it almost always comes back to bite you in the end. (Yet another reason why Pujols will get less dollars and years than Prince Fielder but it will still be "one year too many"). Just imagine if we'd been stuck with the Fukudome or Rowand contracts. The only plus is they all would have prevented the Rios deal from being triggered. And who's to say the Dunn deal won't end up being worse than Vernon Wells at THIS POINT? Not to mention that "winning" players like Uribe were unceremoniously shown the door. I have to say, even though we're disagreeing, I'm enjoying this debate. Though as far as Uribe goes he wasn't cutting it much more and Alexei was the replacement, so I'd say that was pretty good for us. And I can't think of an '05 who was shown the door when their time was up.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 7, 2011 -> 10:53 AM) Sabean still just won the World Series last year, so hard to argue with that result. Cashman's the Phil Jackson syndrome. Could he ever win with a small-market franchise or do a total rebuild? We'll probably never know. It would be interesting to find out. I'm sure that both he and Epstein have moments that they hear the whispers they could never have success in Pittsburgh, KC, Florida, Seattle, Baltimore, Cleveland, Cincy, Houston, etc. And Angels have still developed/drafted a lot more players than the White Sox over the past decade. Trout alone gives him the edge over KW, not to mention Weaver/Santana, the Saunders for Haren deal, Kendrick, Bourjos, Morales, etc. Sure, a lot of busts, too. But Reagins has the overall advantage. Plus that franchise has a LOT more playoff appearances in the last 10-12 years. And KW won in 2005. Over there careers, I'd say Kenny wins (him and Sabean). Especially because Zito is worse than Dunn, Rowand is worse than Rios (deal wise and over the course of the deals), and the AJ trade is WAY worse than the Swisher deal. Cashman wouldn't succeed with a small market. Or even a Chicago market. The Rafael Soriano deal? Can you imagine how pissed this forum would be with that? A-Rod? Jeter? Burnett? Martin? Colon and Freddy at 4 & 5, Boone Logan as the sole lefty? This board would be FURIOUS with any of those, except MAYBE A-Rod. I could see Theo working somewhere else, because he builds a really strong system. If we're giving Sabean a pass for the World Series, than Reagins isn't beating KW for not having one, despite having many good teams. But Hunter, Wells, Matthews, would earn Reagins a sig with a red X across his face here. My point is, even though those guys have all been successful, they have big faults. That's why I put them on even footing.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 7, 2011 -> 10:03 AM) Shapiro's no longer the GM in Cleveland, he got bumped up. Flowers, it seems in hindsight, was largely a product of PED's in terms of his Braves' minor league numbers and AFL stats. Needed to do a bit more due diligence on that one, but obviously hundreds of players have gotten caught up in that. I would take Cashman, Sabean, Reagins, Jocketty and Alderson (based on past performance) over KW as well. Maybe he's a BIT higher, maybe 18-20, but you'd have a lot of argument/s around baseball. I suppose the question would be...were KW on the open market, how many of those teams would bring KW in and let go of their current guy? Alex A. needs to prove that the Blue Jays can come close to contending again in that division before you can annoint him as the best. Daniels would obviously be the "hip" pick as the best GM for his performance the last 2-3 years, but he and KW started out similarly on the learning curve. Whoever took Shapiro's spot then gets it. Antonetti I think? I wouldn't take Cashman over KW. His entire GM-ship is $$$. Sabean's AJ, Zito, and Rowand deals were awful. He was real lucky last year with waivers. Before last year, he's probably a Bottom 5 GM. Reagins dishes out more money to OF than KW. Jocketty is OK. Last year was real good, but the Reds kind of remind me of the Sox this year. I'll give you Alderson. And as for Alex A., he became #1 the day he got Mike Napoli and Juan Rivera for Vernon Wells. Who has more money than Rios and has been awful this year (not THAT far off from Rios).

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 7, 2011 -> 10:12 AM) I ordered a Zach Stewart jersey-shirt. White Sox fandom is a disease. I have a Dayan Viciedo one and still need to get a Santos one. Add it to Frank (waiting for that to come in through the mail), PK (2 of them), Buehrle, Beckham (bought the week he was brought up, almost bought a #15 Beckham Charlotte jersey they were selling for some reason the day before he was brought up), and Peavy (it was exciting).

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 7, 2011 -> 09:56 AM) Floyd is worth 5X what Matt Thornton is right now. The Red Sox would only make these moves if they actually wanted to keep Danks and/or Quentin long-term. Certainly, Danks would be the main reason they'd make the move. Is JD Drew under contract for next season? Personally, if I was Epstein, I'd rather have Reddick going forward (especially considering salary) than Quentin for one year at $9 million. So while it looks like a "win" for the Red Sox on paper, it's kind of a sucker-trade longer term. But there's zero chance we could afford to trade Danks AND Floyd together. When's the last time three All-Stars were traded together in one move (I know Danks hasn't made it before, but Thornton/Quentin were, and Danks would be the centerpiece obviously). 1) I don't 5x. Maybe 2x, but Thornton is still a top lefty reliever (though he lost his top spot). 2) Since they are the Red Sox, I'd assume they would want them long term. 3) I would to, but Reddick was tied to almost every single Red Sox rumor. 4) A rotation of Beckett - Danks - Lester - Floyd - Bucholz is ridiculous with their lineup + Q. It's an "All In" move. 5) I see it as highly likely. We traded Garcia and B-Mac. 6) I said delusional.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 7, 2011 -> 07:51 AM) You have to go to Edwin Jackson for Hudson/Holmberg...which is now essentially Hudson/Holmberg for Stewart and Frasor...the two Swisher trades....and the bad "salary dump" trade we made to get rid of Javy to the Braves with Tyler Flowers as the centerpiece. Finally, dumping Fields/Getz/Brian Anderson/Pods and only ending up with Mark Teahen in return from KC, then the extension (I know the trade wasn't those 4). Those five trades are the center of 90% of the angst at all the sox boards. KW went from a consensus Top 10 GM (2002-2008) to a pretty close to consensus Bottom 5-10 GM from 2008 offseason through today. Hindsight is 20/20. Everyone loved getting Flowers for Javy, the Teahen TRADE was met with "ok", extension another matter. Initial Swisher trade I wasn't on this board for, so I can't say, but it looked good at the time. As for the bolded, name me 20-25 GM's better. I can name a lot worse. Jim Hendry - Self explanatory. Ed Wade - Think the Sox have fallen far since '05? Mark Shapiro - I don't care about this year, especially since they just payed a kings ransom for Ubaldo. Plus, he blew the CC and Lee trades. Dayton Moore - I'm waiting for the fabled Royals dynasty Jack Zduriencik - Makes our lineup look like the Red Sox lineup. Ned Colletti - Santana for Blake, Manny extension, Pierre contract, Jones contract, etc. John Mozeliak - Lucked into Berkman being productive, terrible IF after Pujols, got fleeced for Rasmus. Jed Hoyer - He was the Red Sox puppet and that was it. Mike Rizzo - If not for lucking into Strasburg - Harper - Rendon, Nats fans would kill themselves. Andy MacPhail - The O's just aren't good. Won't be good. Billy Beane - "Moneyball". I can't believe there is a movie. There's my bottom 11. Here's the guys who are definitively better than KW. Ruben Amaro, Jr. Alex Anthopoulos (Best GM). Jon Daniels Theo Epstein Andrew Friedman Doug Melvin Daniel O'Dowd Frank Wren That's eight guys. So, 19 total. The remaining 11 I just clump together. Bill Smith - Yes, Twins are good. But go nowhere in playoffs, Garza deal, Mauer contract will be BAD, Capps trade. Brian Cashman - No more fitting name has ever been bestowed upon a GM. Brian Sabean - Yes, WS championship this past year. But also, Zito and AJ deals. Rowand deal. Kevin Towers - He would be in the above category if this wasn't his first year in AZ. Tony Reagins - His expensive OF fetish baffles me. Walt Jocketty - Good last year, but Chapman is gonna look bad. Also Josh Hamilton. Michael Hill - You really can't do much when you're the Marlins GM. Sandy Alderson - Can't judge right now. Neal Huntington - He can't be in the above list until the Pirates have a few good seasons, but they finally look like a real team. Kenny Williams 1 I'm forgetting. I really can't figure out who.

Marlins traded some kid named Adrian Gonzalez for Ugueth Urbina (I know, they won the championship). Then he was thrown in with Chris Young and Terrmel Sledge for Adam Eaton and Akinori Otsuka. That far outweighs Hudson or Gio.

QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Aug 7, 2011 -> 07:48 AM) I don't think having Paulie and Mark is helping in the clubhouse because its already pathetic with the man running the dugout. Ozzie has lost his team. I never seen so many players give up and show no energy and enthusiasm night in and night out. Time for a new manager to run the show. Ozzie has lost this team a long time ago when he let his idiot son's start bad mouthing his players with insider information. This team would have keeled over long ago if not for PK and Mark. And I don't mean their on the field performance. At least the players try (because of the Captain and Buehrle). QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 7, 2011 -> 08:01 AM) Bad hitting (Dunn/Rios/Beckham/Morel) equals losing, equals bad chemistry. If the clubhouse was truly lost 100%, we would have rolled over and gotten steamrolled by the Twins. We haven't, or didn't. The losses on Sunday and Monday really knocked the Sox offstride, and momentum turned against us with the Yankees, just like we swept through Boston on the road earlier in the season. The problem is our offense isn't consistent enough to even win 5 games in a row, let alone 26/31 like last year. I think there's a lot of chaos and uncertainty because of the strife between KW and Ozzie, and wouldn't be upset to see both leave. There really are a lot of Sox fans who would rather see KW gone than Guillen, actually. I know many that never post here....even though the current "pulse" here is probably 2/3rd's favoring Ozzie going over KW. The only way to get rid of Greg Walker and actually see what we have in Dunn/Beckham/Rios/Morel is to give them a shot with a totally different coaching staff. Guillen or JW won't fire Walker, so the only way is letting Guillen go to Florida. Dumping Beckham right now would be insane because his value is almost zero since he will soon head into his more expensive arbitration years period. I seriously think that if we got a guy who could coach patience, it would do amazing things for this lineup. Ruining Beckham is Walker's biggest folly. QUOTE (beck72 @ Aug 7, 2011 -> 07:44 AM) Mark has more value-on the field and in the clubhouse-for the sox than for other teams. Something should be done, along the lines of a PK contract. While he might be a nice addition for another team, his leaving would be a greater loss. The 6 man rotation has worked well for MB. Without it, his off-speed stuff and location would probably take a big hit. So would his ERA and effectiveness. This is something the sox should stick with for 2012, with Peavy and Humber needing that extra rest as well. I've been advocating this for I don't know how long. I remember pulling up the pitchers (Buehrle, Peavy, Floyd, Danks, Jackson) stats an advocated Sale in the rotation as all the pitchers we're remarkably better on five days rest over four and it would ease Sale into the rotation. Now, I want to do it next year for the reasons you said. It will help Humber build his arm strength (since we have him for the next few years, this would be nice), Peavy rebuild his, Buehrle has shown this year what the extra rest does. It will also help ease Stewart and Sale into the rotation. This would of course meaning trading Floyd/Danks. But I'm upping it one more and trading both. Danks, I'm sending to the Red Sox. With Quentin. And Floyd. Why? Because I'm going to be irrational and point out what I saw earlier on MLBTR (Rosenthal video). If Ubaldo + Seth Smith was what the Rockies were offering, I feel like Danks + Quentin + Floyd could actually get that package, and that is a hell of a package. Heck, I'd throw in Thornton if they'd up it to include Ranuado (though the fact that I'm saying "include Ranuado too" means I'm delusional). I also feel Floyd/Thornton are interchangeable if they only want one of them and we have to settle for a "lesser" (again, relatively speaking) package. That deal makes the Red Sox really scary, since they would have a rotation to match their lineup. It also sets up the White Sox nice for the future. Ok, I'm done with pointless rambling.

QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Aug 7, 2011 -> 04:38 AM) I would overpay Mark Buehrle. I would too. I want him and Paulie to retire Sox.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 6, 2011 -> 10:03 AM) Anybody have a PS Move with a sharpshooter? Is it worth it for games like Killzone 3? It's OK. Not really worth it. For arcade games like Extraction, yes. But the camera system felt weird with the sharpshooter (your crosshair doesn't stay centered) in Killzone 3.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Aug 6, 2011 -> 10:44 PM) Plus, the hair.

Wasn't able to see the game. Obviously, Stewart did good. But how we're his pitches or was he lucky?

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Aug 6, 2011 -> 05:48 AM) And with that, this will be a game I'll watch. Double. My guess is number #54

QUOTE (kapzk @ Aug 5, 2011 -> 11:03 PM) Here we go again. I remember a year or two ago, the Jays commentators called Rios the owner of a thousand different stances. I dunno how a guy can change his stance that many times over the course of his career. But, I guess whatever it takes to get out of this funk should be attempted. Atleast he's trying to change what makes him suck instead of staying the same. Let's hope he can figure things out and contribute next year. Paul Konerko changes like every at bat.

I liked what I saw from Stewart in his Orioles start. He pitched fast and had good movement, hopefully Buehrle and Coop give him some pointers.