kitekrazy

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 07:13 AM) Don't they list pitch count in the box score? Q was maxed out at like 117 or 119 . I don't think they do but yeah that's a lot of pitches.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 10:13 AM) I think the Sox don't have any good choices. But I've come to the view at the moment that their most likely path is to try again to patch holes in the offseason and go for it again in 2017. Chris Sale and Quintana will always be tradeable, so there is no rush to unload them, and their value won't be lower next season. The only guys you could unload for some value before their run is up is Frazier and Lawrie and Melky. All are signed through next year. What would they net? Would it be enough to go for the tear down now, as opposed to next year, if the Sox fail again? I think any tear down is looking at another 3+ years to anything competitive, under best case scenarios. At that point, Rodon is nearing the end of his first contract, Anderson is starting arbitration, Eaton will be over 30. In short, there will be no one left from this current team that will be a bargain player the way that Sale, Quintana and Eaton are now. And waiting another year to start the rebuild will give you another year of development of whatever we have in the minors. And since all those guys are years off, that's a plus, not a minus. If we had several guys on the cusp, a tear down now might yield a more rapid return to relevance. I don't see that. So, the Sox should play out the year. Unload any guys with 1-year contracts who won't be back for whatever you can get. But keep all the pitchers and the 2-year guys, make what moves you can in the offseason, and try again. As part of going for it in 2017, however, the Sox have to try it with a different manager. Ventura has had 2 years of tweaked teams to show something, and he's failed. Not sure a new manager will make the difference, but it has to be tried. Going into next year, the Sox could be stronger. SP - Sale and Q will still anchor. Shields can be a solid #3. Rodon needs to be a lot better. Gonzalez might be kept as one of the options for the 5th slot. This would be better than they started 2016. BP - lots of guys injured at the moment. Return to health should improve this unit. Plus Fullmer and Burdi might strengthen it. Fullmer might also be considered as a 5th starter option. Lineup keepers. Anderson, Eaton, Melky, Frazier, Lawrie, Abreu. Not great, but potentially servicable. Key here is Abreu. He has to turn it around or the Sox aren't going to have a decent offense. Lineup turnover. CF, DH, C. Those are the 3 biggest holes. They need to be filled with quality, not afterthoughts. Guys who are BETTER than the 6 keepers. To conclude: when you are 3 good players and a new manager from having a contending team, it's not time to throw in the towel and start over. Better to go for it. If you miss, it won't have really cost you anything. For Sale it could be quite higher. If he wins 20 on a bad team that's says a lot about a pitcher. I would be reluctant to trade away one of the best contracts in professional sports.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 24, 2016 -> 10:09 PM) I'll give Robertson one thing, he admitted he was lousy and when Bruce Levine tried to give him an out (i.e. excuse) saying 'but you pitched three times in 15 hours' Roberston said it didn't matter. So Levine tried again by asking 'have you ever pitched three times in 15 hours' and Robertson immediately cut him off saying it didn't matter he's got a job to do. While I admire guys standing up and taking the blame when they suck, the bottom line is these guys have been sucking a lot, and it doesn't seem to matter who the Sox sign, trade for whatever...there's something about the organization in general that seems to 'promote' for lack of a better word failure. It gets old. All the more reason a purging is desperately needed starting with the baseball side of the front office. Mark Looking at the box which doesn't say much, was there a reason that Q didn't stay in there longer? I just find Robins use of the pen more of an addiction than managing. To me it's the pen where most of the mental midgets roost.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/here-are...ris-sale-trade/ This was also a great argument for not trading Sale. It's the best contract of value in baseball. I'd wait another year. If he wins 20 without Robin messing it up the value could be even higher.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 24, 2016 -> 11:18 AM) Rangers GM Jon Daniels talked about rentals today for their pitching needs. Seems they dont like the prices of the starters from us or Tampa. They don't like the prices either in the free agent market. $15M can buy a mediocre pitcher.

QUOTE (Special K @ Jul 23, 2016 -> 10:38 PM) I hate Rick Hahn. I will 100% become a Cubs fan if they trade Sale. Prepared to be done with this Organization. It will be so liberating. I can understand this since the biggest problem is ownership.

The problem with many of these speculated trade packages is that they offer pitchers. That's what they don't need and seem to do well on their own. Unless the Sox can dump Ja. I say nein to Ja starting.

So the question is are there stats for Sale pitching in this uncomfortable uniform?

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 23, 2016 -> 07:26 AM) Did I miss something? I don't see any thread discussing this: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/191...for-chris-sale/ The articles speculated that the Sox would want Profar and Gallo. What would you consider a fair return for Sale? I caught this. Twins fire GM Terry Ryan: Though the Twins have badly struggled in recent years, it was still a bit of a surprise to see the team part ways with the longtime general manager given how Ryan has been such a key figure in franchise history. Assistant GM Rob Antony will take over the top job on an interim basis while Minnesota will immediately begin a search for its new general manager — Antony himself figures to be a top candidate, though the Twins could depart from their usual method of internal promotions to bring a totally fresh face into the organization. The short-term effect of Ryan’s firing was an immediate surge of interest from rival teams looking to add Twins players before the deadline. This isn't the first time they make people in their organization accountable. Do you think Buddy Bell could keep a job elsewhere?

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 09:48 PM) Yeah, not an easy loss but if we're selling, I don't mind This is like a preview of what sell mode looks like, This is what the starting pitching looks like without a Sale or Q.

Looking at today's starter wasn't this one of those forfeit games?

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 05:17 PM) Look at what this idiot Red Sox fan said on one of my other forums. That's because they don't watch Sale pitch very often.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 03:23 PM) He Gone: Very good post. Congrats to you. There is no easy solution I'm afraid to the Sox numerous issues. Maybe the simplest one is that they desperately need new ownership to get out of this rut of mediocrity. A new owner will bring in their own people and hopefully they'll be better at their jobs then the current group (how can they be worse?) Mark You would hope that but I could see them keeping the same people to avoid the hiring process. I would hate that. First time owners can be clueless at first.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 12:03 PM) I loathe comparing teams across sports, but White Sox ownership needs to do essentially what the Bears did. Fire the Vice President down, hire an expert baseball mind to help comb the league for a touted assistant GM in a winning organization. The most valuable people in the NFL are your scouts. The NFL is such a different animal with the salary cap. The window for winning is short. I'd love to know how the Cardinals do things. They rarely have a losing season and even if their season starts out bad they somehow mange to be back in the pack.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 11:38 AM) That was me based on JR's comments himself, but by 'management' he meant field managers or head coaches. He's never said anything about front office executives one way or the other. Mark Hahn was one of the highest paid Ass't. GMs. It's obvious JR didn't want to lose him.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 04:45 PM) This team doesn't need to rebuild. They need to fire the leadership that can't identify or groom talent. The young guys we bring in and draft typically suck too. So I'm not sure a rebuild will work. And we have enough talent where we can plug some holes and see where it takes us. They seem to be content since the start of this century.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 12:02 PM) My future plans: Watch other sports until JR isn't the owner anymore. Best idea. I try to watch other baseball teams where there is little emotional interest and that means NL baseball. For the Cub haters, unfortunately the Cubs are a good team to watch. I wish the Dbacks didn't suck. I have a neighbor who has season tickets and sometimes gives them away.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 09:02 AM) That Kings Ransom they talked about is what I might expect with Sale having 1 year of control left. He's got 3. I want 6 guys , 2 for each year of control because you know damn well 3 will flop and maybe 2 of the remaining 3 become good ballplayers . Odds of getting a superstar are very low. That's why they need better scouting and development.

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 11:51 AM) I know it's a popular idea in theory right now, especially in the moment with the team being so terrible, but I just don't see the "king's ransom" theory converting over into reality. I can't see any team actually ponying up the actual, sky-high, ridiculous market price it would take to acquire Sale. Because, to be fair to what he's worht, talent-wise, contract-wise and everything, it would be a nearly unprecedented haul. IMO, a fair Sale trade works better in theory than it would in practice. Thus, I wouldn't "shop" Sale or try to negotiate trades or anything. I would set a take-it-or-leave-it package, and just keep him when/if it's not met. That's a GM's way of saying they are not trading a player. I'll bet there have been plenty of offers on Sale for quite some time.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 08:41 AM) Their "value" isn't helping this team win and there's no help coming from the minors. We need to figure out how to get 4-5 good young position players infused into this team, and like it or not Sale and Q represent the only chance of getting that You would think that would have happened at some point under KW\Hahn\Bell. There were Tiger fans upset over the Sox getting Avi out of the Peavy trade. My question on him was he an overrated prospect or was it the lack of development on the Sox part. Scouting is beyond Matt Millen terrible. The team consistently loses to 5+ ERA pitchers they never seen. Too many players called from the minors don't just make rookie mistakes, they make I don't know how to play baseball mistakes. The Sox do fine with pitching prospects which could be a great reason to trade a guy like Sale but I don't really trust this organization to evaluate talent when it comes to giving up a cost controlled guy like Sale or Q.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 07:19 PM) I don't know if the other stuff is true or not but I believe the part that JR wants to win now and is the reason why the FO keeps pushing for a winner. Has there ever been an 80 year old owner that went full rebuild on their team? I love the idea of trading away assets to rebuild and as a fan, yes I would easily endure the growing pains of a youth movement but I just don't think it will happen due to JR's age and desire to have one last winner. The SOX are stuck at the Nexus of the universe with JR. Considering the scouting and development you may die before that happens.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 10:59 AM) It may be a technicality but Hawk wasn't fired, he resigned and then later JR apologized for putting him in that position in the first place. Mark An announcer to GM, player totally out of professional baseball to manager = ownership is stupid.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 03:27 AM) Adam Lind = The new Jason Giambi On another note, why take out Sale at 100 pitches when he's throwing a 1 hitter? At least let him start the inning and see if he can get a few quick outs. He deserves the CG 1 hitter. The last guy that shutout the Sox was around 110+. This one's on Robin. Way too many games lost by the bullpen.

QUOTE (La Marr Hoyt HOF @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 10:19 AM) Why not BLOW IT UP???!!! We've never tried it, can't be worse than the last few years of this crap. I'd like to start with the coaching staff first. For this organization there is always a new "worse".

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 17, 2016 -> 10:48 PM) I don't know who thinks it will happen, but I know that it should happen You would trust the scouting dept. on this? There is no such thing as a can't miss in this organization when it comes to everything but pitching. When it comes to prospects there isn't much that points to success under Buddy Bell.