kitekrazy

QUOTE (South Sider @ May 22, 2015 -> 04:36 PM) Frankly, and I know this is going to seem blasphemous to some, but I think Sox fans overall are watching the transformation of the franchise on the north side and wishing it was us. I haven't completely given up hope on the Reinsdorf regime or this team and its future, but our tanking of the last couple of seasons would sure seem a lot tolerable if it was overseen by Epstein/Hoyer. I know I wanted Theo on the south side but knew it wouldn't happen because of JRs loyalty to KW. Why didn't we make a push for Maddon? Because of JR/KWs loyalty to RV. Maddon, if given the choice, would have taken the Cubs job anyway. Their tanking has produced what appears to be a team that is going to be playing an exciting brand of baseball, much more so then the White Sox have been. I hate to pile the pressure on the Sox even more, but they REALLY need to start finding a way to consistently play exciting baseball. Exciting, but not necessarily dominating baseball. Because, and again this is going to sound blasphemous to some (I'm not a Cub hater like I used to be pre-2005), but I won't fault the casual fan for opting to watch Cubs baseball instead of the Sox. I won't ever switch sides but if it gets to the point where the Sox keep playing like we're used to, and the Cubs keep getting better and better, you better believe I'd rather spend the little time I have to watch baseball games watching an invigorating brand of baseball then the same lethargic baseball that we're getting used to. I'll always be a Sox fan first and foremost. If the teams met in the World Series, it's Sox all the way. But this is just the harsh reality for some. The Cubs represent the city I am from too, and they have done literally everything with their baseball operations that I wish the Sox had done. It's hard for me to not respect what they've done up to this point. Not me. This wasn't meant to be a Sox vs. Cubs thread. I pointed out that the Cubs organization tends to value experienced leadership where this organization doesn't. The Sox use the fan favorite Rolodex. Interesting that the Cubs when using experienced managers like Baker and Pinella have failed miserably and Ozzie who was groomed outside the organization managed a World Series.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 22, 2015 -> 11:19 PM) You may be right (lyrics, Billy Joel). ... I was thinking that baseball hasn't done the Sox any favors either with the unbalanced schedule. I can't see the Sox becoming an organization that can beat those Central teams consistently. We're always going to be the big-city team that the other teams in our division want to beat. Sox are so nonchalant and noncompetitive (blah might be a better word) against its own divisional brethren that a .500 record any year overall in the Central would be a helluva record. I can't believe baseball cow-towed to Steinbrenner who wanted to play the Red Sox 19 times a year and agreed to this bulls*** unbalanced schedule. Sox would fare much better playing all the teams, not the boring Central Division squads. Sox fans are smart ... who the hell wants to go see the Twins, Royals and Indians all the time? Not our paying customers. How does that define smart? Thee teams were considered major rivals in certain decades. The Sox were the Twin's b**** during the Manuel era and the Indians' b**** during the Lamont era.

QUOTE (Tex @ May 22, 2015 -> 03:50 PM) You never would have lasted as a Sox fan in the 60s through the turn of the century. I'm a decade short of that. As a kid in the late 60's I was a Cub fan.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 22, 2015 -> 04:10 PM) You are the one throwing a 40% drop off in soxtalk membership compared to 05-08. Why don't you go ahead and prove it. This site is thriving despite a huge drop in messageboard usage everywhere. Not only thriving, expanding, growing, and evolving. This is the only thing I enjoy about being a fan. I'm more of a fan of Sox Talk than the White Sox. That other site has regressed compared to here. Some of their threads can be quite lame.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ May 22, 2015 -> 05:13 PM) Good luck, Cubs have always been for the bandwagon/front runner/fair weather crowd. QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ May 22, 2015 -> 05:20 PM) A team that hasn't won a WS in 100 years and last made the playoffs 8 years ago has a bandwagon? Not a good example. LOL! That reply didn't have a lot of thought behind it. I would think Sox fans fit the bandwagon/front runner/fair weather crowd blueprint more than Cub fans. These senseless fan labels mean nothing at a ticket gate. Maybe Don Cooper could increase attendance by calling out fans for being bandwagon/front runner/fair weather fans. Sorry dude they don't hand out trophies to fans.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 22, 2015 -> 10:05 PM) Some great posts on this thread I can't even comment on all of them. Great stuff, folks. I will say it's going to be weird when we have a GOOD team again. I mean the team has shown signs the last few years, the nights the Sox bring it. The overall record hasn't been god-awful, but the team has been (unfortunately not Joe) maddening the last few seasons. Even Ozzie's last team or two was bizarre in the way it lost games. I have to be a fan, it's in my blood, but again ... I'm gonna be so happy when the team gets legitimately good again. Sorry to say that WILL NEVER happen UNTIL the defense improves (to go with pitching as least as good on paper as this year's club). It just won't. When you have a crappy defensive team you are going to be .500 at best. The way things are going I doubt that. I think that will only change when other people run this organization.

I'm almost there. I don't see any future in rooting for this organization. My Sox badge and decoder ring may have to be taken away. Farm system - what has Buddy Bell and scouting really done to keep their job. It seems some of these youngsters are clueless about baseball on things that high schoolers could do. They can't run the bases. If they can field they can't hit then when they can't field they can't hit either. Trading for prospects is the worst thing they could ever do since when they become a Sox they do the bad things in baseball. Instruction has to be terrible. This organization hasn't been able to develop a catcher. You can't win a division if a Tyler Flowers is your catcher. Hitting - I still believe the AL and NL are two different leagues. Will 2nd time be the charm of taking a NL player and transitioning them to DH. There's not enough inter league play where they can transition to be an immediate success. I've always wondered if the stadium contributes to players losing any discipline of situational hitting. Is this even taught in the minors? This team could probably go through a dozen hitting coaches and the results are the same. So maybe scouting is to blame even with free agents. Ownership - The 'inbred' mentality of keeping it in the family needs to go. I guess that will only change when people in the organization pass away. The north side takes chances on experienced managers. The results are not always great but they think it's a priority. In this century we've had Jerry Manuel, at least Ozzie was groomed into management from another organization. Even when Ventura was hired I thought it was a WTF decision. Who is the next former Sox retread? Fans are not buying it. If they fired Ventura and got Gardenhire I don't know if there would be much difference but at least it would be someone different and spark some interest. They won a WS during the KW era but it seems this team was more exciting during the Schuler era. They had untouchable prospects. Mark B. was a product of the Schuler and his fundamentals on the mound can't be touched by most of the kids today. Before the internet era we had to drive back home because there were no tickets. If we could only have that strike season back. This is one of the most boring teams to watch and it's been that way for a while. Even Stone mentioned that on the SCORE last year. Our stud young players like Sale and Abreu did not get poisoned by the farm system. Maybe they realize that and don't want to ruin Rodon. If he is better off with Coop then shouldn't Coop's philosophy be spread to the minors? I don't know if that is the case. The loyalty thing stops short of the fan base. Why don't they raid successful organizations when it comes to coaching, scouting and philosophy? It's like watching a movie over and over hoping this time the end will be different.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 21, 2015 -> 08:31 PM) If this season tanks, it's going to be quite difficult for the organization to get fans excited again heading into a season. I don't think we can assume they will spend a fortune every offseason like they just did. I'm not too far from losing all allegiance to the Sox and rooting for someone else. Real changes need to be made well above the 25 man roster. The only way those changes are made is if death is involved. Who has that kind of patience anymore? Changes are then replaced with former Sox retreads.

A dog returns to its vomit.

Sox need a catcher in the worst way.

NOOooooooooooooooooo! Get someone from the outside. No more dogs returning to their vomit.

QUOTE (Lillian @ May 2, 2015 -> 05:25 PM) While it may be too early to become sellers, themselves, it's certainly makes little sense for the Sox to be buyers. If they became sellers I think that erodes the fan base even more. What good would getting another team's prospects when this organization doesn't seem to be good at developing baseball players.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 2, 2015 -> 10:13 PM) Notice how we never blame the hitting coach now that the hated Walker is gone? I don't even know who our hitting coach is to tell you the truth. It's all cliche. This current hitting coach should be getting roasted over the coals as much as Walker was. There's probably a 25 man roster in Chicago that doesn't know him either.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ May 2, 2015 -> 06:58 PM) Who cares about his work this year? He's been with the Sox 27 years. One month doesnt mean anything. Extremely successful track record despite given no payroll to work with. Cooper absolutely deserves to finish out the year as manager, and make a decision from there, at the very least. The makeup is bulls***. Ozzie survived long enough here and he's way worse than Coop when it comes to that. It's actually helpful for a team with 0 national media exposure otherwise. I thinkin that's what they don't need. Get someone from the outside.

When you have a Tyler Flowers starting on your team, you need a lot more talent to compensate to win a division. There is nothing he can make up for being below average. When some guys can't hit they can still make up for it in defense. I still don't get how the names change but the offense production is still the same. I guess you blame that on your advance scouts. Recruiting someone for the NL to be a DH may be another fail. It's not a rocket science to realize both leagues are different in play.

Smarj and Sale must think this is their way of serving suspensions by being no shows on the mound.

I'd trade him to the Cardinals for some scouts, execs or people from the instructional leagues. They seem to do a lot of things right in baseball.

I think the Sox have better chances of winning when they have the lead after the 6th. That seems so much better than last year. Nice to have a stud closer.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Apr 22, 2015 -> 11:37 AM) Cooper is starting to piss me off. Usually when a coach has nothing else he starts using the whole "it's not easy" BS. Another thing is that this was a division game against a rival and a high leverage spot -- a MULLIGAN??? GMAFB. Don't insult our intelligence. Why is Hahn the only person in this org that owns up to mistakes? He owned up to the replay mistake even though he could have easily thrown the guy he didn't hire under the bus. How about Cooper says "you know it was a tough spot and with our other LOOGY option unavailable we did what we had to do. It was a tough spot but we felt it was the best option". I'm not even saying this was a "mistake" but take some of the heat off your players man without resorting to the whole "if it was easy you bums in section 103 would be out here" crap. You'd think with 5k showing up last night the first line of defense wouldn't be "it's hard being a major leaguer". No s***. This is why Cooper in most organization will never be a manager. His attitude is "us vs the fans". He and Ozzie started this even in 2005. When you are bad at baseball don't attack the fans.

Being a fan and watching this organization is not easy either. Baseball is my favorite sport and there is not a close second. After 40+ years of being a Sox fan I not sure I have that kind of endurance any more. In the 80s-90s it seemed there was progression now it's the opposite. Stupid runs deep in this organization.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 21, 2015 -> 09:21 PM) Lousy game. Sox don't believe in momentum or winning streaks it appears again. No carryover from last night. Would be nice to win this series at least. Team gets a chance to do that tomorrow. That supports my unproven theory that they are mentally weak.

Fire Greg Walker!

I'm not a fan of taking a slugger from the NL and converting them to an AL DH. It's too early to tell but they made that mistake before.

QUOTE (DashFan @ Apr 21, 2015 -> 08:15 PM) Robin Ventura had two jobs today: 1. Give away a game to a division opponent. 2. Destroy any confidence Carlos Rodon may have came into the majors with. Done & done. Lamont did this to Ruffcorn and Baldwin. He made them face the Indians when 3 of their guys could out hit this whole Sox lineup.

QUOTE (Capn12 @ Apr 21, 2015 -> 08:11 PM) Guess we're just gonna use this game as the Rodon intro to the bigs, and not care about trying to win. Robin's managing for the future...like in Sept. when they will be well out of it again.