kitekrazy

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 03:29 PM) And I do expect a fight this series, which may turn out the way it did when Robin Ventura charged Nolan Ryan. Bad timing for a fight/beanball war. But I sense it is coming tonight in game one, to try to set the cliche-like "tone" to the series. That macho bulls*** never does anything. Ask Carlos Z.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 03:21 PM) Lifelong? Wow. If they came in last place the next 4 years you'd be perfectly fine with that? That's when you start wanting a new GM. With both Kenny and Ozzie that is very unlikely to happen but if it did, I bet they would both quit.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 12:59 PM) Their $97.7 million payroll and $180 mill extension to Mauer this year suggest anything other than a limited budget. A new ballpark and their attendance figures should help. You can't let a player like Mauer. Trading Santana wasn't so bad since he wanted out of there.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 03:00 PM) There are more than a few games where actually having a DH instead of Kotsay and Jones would have helped the Sox out bigtime. Instead of being 9 under and 9.5 back, it's very realistic to think they would have only been 7 under and 7.5 back. Maybe he would have been that 6th starter when Peavy wasn't looking so CY and everyone thought MB was now washed up. Floyd looked like a BP pitcher and Danks had bad luck.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 03:04 PM) I wish somebody could go through all the threads last year saying how people were sick of Thome. I can't believe suddenly big Jim is so popular around this board when people were glad to see him go. Didn't you know he's a legend for hitting a homerun in game 163 against the team he is now playing for? Ozzie has betrayed us to the Twins.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 02:13 PM) I couldn't disagree more with all of this. Thome was glaringly a better fit for the Sox, who had, and still have no left handed power and no legitimate DH. The Twins didn't have room or a need for Thome. He was simply too good of a deal to pass up. He played way less than he deserved in the first half because the Twins have full time starters in outfield, 1B, DH. He's so clearly good that they found at bats for him against righties. And the smartest thing- what are the chances that at some point one of your outfielders, first baseman, or DH gets injured? I'd say not insignificant. It doesn't hurt so much to lose Morneau when Thome is putting up pretty comparable numbers. And it wasn't 31 teams (there are 30 major league baseball teams) that passed on Thome, it was 12 other than the White Sox (14 teams in the AL). Of those 12 you logically exclude any of the low payroll teams with no chance of contention (why would they spend money on a DH) and the potentially competing teams who already had a DH (Boston, Yankees, Mariners, Texas, Rays, Detroit, Angels). Good pint. I don't think Thome is the difference where the Sox are. Overall offense production is still there. The woes began when your fifth starter was your ace at the beginning of the season. The whole rotating DH looks much bigger because the pen can't finish and Freddy looks washed up. If they had won only 20/30, we would still be talking about next season.

QUOTE (qwerty @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 02:22 PM) His first sentence was about as straight forward as it gets, it made a ton of sense. Where do you get this poor plate discipline thing come from? He never mentioned a thing about it. That thome sure is a stubborn guy... the same guy having a terrific season with the arch rival of the white sox. The sox ''likely'' planned on bringing dye back as a designated hitter? When exactly? Was it right when last season ended? The beginning of the off-season? Right before thome signed? I know dye made it pretty well known, early on, that if it came down to taking a designated hitter role or not play at all, he simply would retire. Dye was never on the white sox radar in that aspect. Still makes no sense. Poor plate discipline is not what I'm referring to about Thome. (who could never make teams regret using the Thome shift) Thome's not on the Sox get over it. Yes, he's on the Twins. Success on the Twins does not = success on the White Sox. It's not a hidden secret anywhere the Sox would prefer Dye over Thome as a DH. Players say things and do change their mind and they had their hopes on that. Thome is not the difference for either team winning the division. People forget April and May never existed when this team wasn't doing anything right. Those games count too.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 02:06 PM) The 2006 team was more talented than the 2005 team. We definitely should have won our division that year. Only on paper. It seems who ever has the hot hand at the right time wins it all more than anything else. Wasn't that the season everyone thought the Tigers had the division sewed up and the Twin came out of nowhere. I always felt the recent Detroit teams are the most under achieving teams.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 12:23 PM) God we are starting to sound like Bears fans. There's always something clearly better out there. No manager will ever be good enough. They should just run the team based on fan voting before every game, I think we'd be set then. It's like that everywhere. In reality no matter how you add it up, coach/manager with bad players always = bad team. People are trying to use baseball logic in the NFL. Why aren't the Redskins winning like the Yankees? Cutler sucks when there is no blocking or anyone to throw to. Could Brady and Manning make that 2009 team win 13 games? No!

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 12:46 PM) Funny that you should mention the Bears. Similar to that team, the White Sox and Ozzie will always be defended for a title they won years ago. Ditka is still considered great by idiots all over the city. I wonder how long Ozzie will get the free pass due to 2005? Ditka should have won more with that group. With maybe the exception of the 2006 team, so far the Sox teams after 2005 were not good enough to win the World Series and this year's team definitely isn't. Managers and coaches often get blamed for a team's lack of talent. People get snake oiled that this is the exact team Ozzie wanted because he didn't want certain players. The manager isn't the one writing the checks or negotiating deals.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 12:04 PM) Ozzie is the one who runs far too often, and causes this team to run into more outs than any other team by far. Ozzie is the one who didn't want Thome or a real DH, he wanted the rotating B.S. that we currently have, which has been far and away the biggest detriment to their success on offense. Ozzie is the one who ran JJ Putz out there three days in a row, if you want to get more specific and more recent. Ozzie deserves a significant portion of the blame for the Sox being 3 out. Now, he does not deserve ALL the blame, by any stretch. Similarly, he deserves some credit for making sure his team didn't quit, and came roaring back into contention. But again, not all of it. 1st sentence makes no sense. Sox have poor plate discipline. Probably an organization thing. Thome's a guy who doesn't know when his time is up. I wouldn't want Thome either. Only two are left of the Slowtastic Four. The Sox most likely planned on Dye signing as a DH.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 12:56 PM) With Thome, the best theory I've heard (I think it was Fathom's) was that it was going to be very difficult for Thome to come back as one of the lowest paid members of the team after having been the second or third highest player on the team in 2010. People forget there's also an agent who wants his chunk of change.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 12:32 PM) 1B isn't a hard position to play, and backups at 1B are not particularly hard to find. Mark Teahen could have been a perfectly adequate backup to Konerko at 1B with Vizquel filling in on the left side, and if someone else was needed, you can call up Josh Kroeger or sign Jeremy Reed or sign Jermaine Dye or call up Dayan Viciedo or even retain Mark Kotsay while getting rid of Randy Williams. A backup 1B should not be on the priority list of things a contending club needs. Beyond that, I don't understand how a .249/.372/.493/.864 is not something you'd want from a DH. He keeps innings alive by walking a ton, and he gets runs on the board by being on base and hitting for power. Mark Kotsay is not very good at either one of those things, and he requires a pinch runner too (or he should, at the very least). But by god, has he played a remarkable backup 1B this year. This is not about Kotsay vs. Thome. You have to remember CG is a fragile player. I have no problem with a rotating DH. Yes those numbers suck for a DH who can only offer swinging a bat. Yes, he got on base but that was because you knew he wouldn't steal. You missed the point.

I have no problem losing to some of the better teams but when you lose to the Royals, Indians but the real choke job was against the mighty Orioles. The Sox had to play that extra game in 2008 because they sucked against suck teams.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 16, 2010 -> 09:26 AM) We are a good team and by golly we are good enough to win and we should all love each other .. not that way even though there isn't anything wong with that Come on lighten up folks-it's only August and we have shown we can rebound. It's just one of those slumps every team goes through. It's a good thing we weren't 3 games out last Friday when the Tigers came to town That's true. The slump is bad timing. If the remarkable win streak the Indians had in 2005 came a few weeks later, the post season might have been different.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 12:30 PM) Then if they're so s***ty why is it so hard for us to beat them out for the division most of the time? They save their best for the Sox. They like hitting at the Cell because they see the ball much better.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 12:58 PM) 0, which is awesome. I don't understand how this is relevant, but two. Carlos Gomez is currently playing for the Milwaukee Brewers, and Phillip Humber is playing for the Kansas City Royals. Kevin Mulvey could be pitching for the DBacks too, and is still only 25 (though he doesn't look like he's very good). The Twins obviously dropped the ball on getting a solid return for Santana, but they've made incredible personnel decisions otherwise, and JJ Hardy is still on the Twins, whom they acquired for Carlos Gomez. Teams are prone to making mistakes, even when trading great players. They've apparently gotten over dealing him, and they're doing just fine, considering the Twins have won more divisions without Santana than the Mets have with him. He was the #58 prospect according to BA heading into the season. He was blocked at the MLB level by Joe Mauer, and he put up a line of .241/.280/.345/.625 at AAA Rochester with very little power. His stock was very down. They have been in a position to compete in the playoffs 5 times in the past 8 years, and they have been in competition for the divisional title in 8 of the past 10 years, including this year, which is more than can be said for the Sox. The Sox capitalized in 1 of their 5 playoff appearances in the last 50 years. The Twins have capitalized in 2 of their 10 playoff appearances in the last 50 years. Excellent post. It's not always about what they get in trades but they seem to bounce back after losing some great players.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 08:29 AM) If the Sox sweep the Twins and somehow end up winning the division this year, they'd be better darlings of baseball than the Twins. Teams generally don't make the playoffs after being 9 games below .500 and 9.5 games back in the standings, and it's pretty significant when it does happen. The Twins were expected to win this division from the onset of the season, and anybody picking someone else was going out on a limb. Pre-season favorites aren't "darlings." It's just as rare for a team to win 25/30.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 16, 2010 -> 07:01 AM) It's hard to determine what's worse. The hate and loathing for all things White Sox or the undying love and admiration for the entire Minnesota Twins organization. Nothing wrong with admiring an organization that tends to do things right because of a limited budget.

Trading Rowand for Thome eventually cost the Sox $$$.

QUOTE (stretchstretch @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 11:45 AM) glad to see we got this thread back to addressing the OP, some good theories and stats have come out of it. personally, I find the fact that many other top teams have mediocre second halves revealing as it puts us in the company of the "elite" squads in comparing 1st half to 2nd. now, couple that with an observation that MN is unique in seemingly being able to fill injured spots with "no-namers" out of the minor system at almost any position, and they come in immediately contributing, would really answer the 2nd half trend Morneau goes down, no problem, Nathan lost for the year before the season begins (Sox fans jump with glee), no problem....no need to go out to the FA market, or squeeze something in at the trade deadline, just pull up a guy that no one has ever heard of and he comes in with rock solid defense, speed, smart baserunning, above avg offensive numbers, and so on.......how many times can someone recall a MN guy make his big club debut who sits at or above the Mendoza line for weeks? or a pitcher than with ERA north of 5 over a period of three weeks, consecutive blown saves, etc Their philosophy is much different than the Sox and maybe closer to Ozzie's. My biggest rant about the Sox organization is playing defense is the lowest priority. How many kids on the organization that fans recommend to play DH or 1st?

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 11:51 AM) 99% of the time, I'd agree with you. However, the situation with the 2010 Sox is extremely unique, and we talked about it before the year how it almost seemed like KW was trying to set up Ozzie to be the fall guy if this offensive (in more than one way) strategy didn't work. I agree. There's a lot more to signing a player since they have an agent with demands, owners have budget restrictions ect. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/deluca/2606...fe.suntimes.com There's some intelligent comments (not by the author). Did anyone ever consider that Thome may be a better fit for the Twins than the Sox? 31 teams balked at signing Thome and the Twins may have offered his last chance at being on a team only at their demands. The DH by committee is only a failure because it's filled by Kenny's lightning in a bottle approach. Kotsay was kept to help give PK a rest at 1st while Paulie can DH. Thome gives you no options other than needing a pinch runner. His 2009 numbers are not what you want from a DH anyway.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 10:47 AM) You don't fire a guy for being in the pennant race. Good call. Maybe the team isn't really that good. Right now is a bad time for the bull pen to fail. Where's the angst against Coop? How about Walker?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 16, 2010 -> 08:47 AM) The weird thing...since the AS break, we're in the middle of the pack in terms of ERA in the AL, and actually slightly better than we were in the first half so far, and we're 3rd in the AL in runs scored since the AS break when we were only #9 in the first half. We're actually playing slightly better right now than we played on the whole in the first half, based on those numbers. The problem is...the Twins have the #1 offense and the #2 ERA in the AL since the AS break. That team ERA will get back to reality if they make it to the post season.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 16, 2010 -> 09:53 AM) People need to stop playing this card. The Sox have been bad over the past week because the same players that dominated the league for the past two months haven't been executing. It's as simple as that. You get an A+. Their offensive categories aren't really as much as people think.