Thad Bosley

Despite the game's results thus far, Steve Stone has been particularly good tonight.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 25, 2015 -> 06:20 PM) There should be...but I will believe it when I see it. Last time we spent $115 million+ and won 63 games, the manager got a contract extension. And who granted that contract extension? Jerry Reinsdorf. The manager and coaches are just the symptoms, gents. The problem lies at the top.

QUOTE (DashFan @ May 25, 2015 -> 06:07 PM) I turned the game off. I'd rather have minor surgery than watch this team take another at bat. You and Hawk Harrelson both!

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ May 25, 2015 -> 06:00 PM) Jerry Reinsdorf is the reason. Loyalty trumps accountability/results.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 25, 2015 -> 05:13 PM) I have provided the obvious answers that you feel hurt feelings to acknowledge. I have 115 years of attendance and White Sox history to back me up, but you know, what is that really worth. Fans abandon the White Sox during all but the very best times. I don't see why that is such a painful thing for people to admit. All of the reasons you keep giving at why fans don't go to games do nothing but back that fact up. That is the very definition of a bandwagon fan base. If that isn't a bandwagon fanbase, I would love to hear what your definition of that actually is, and why the Sox fan base doesn't fit that criteria, because nothing you have said in all of your posts has said anything that doesn't reinforce every single thing I have been saying all along. The "very best of times" of which you speak have been very few and far between throughout those 115 years, which is the point I keep trying to make. When you cannot point to one instance during those 115 years where the team even once went to the post season in consecutive years, what does that tell you? It means achievement has been less than desirable, to say the least. You want attendance? Well you have to get it the 'ol fashioned way: you have to earn it.

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ May 25, 2015 -> 04:34 PM) Your posts in this thread have been wonderfully insightful, and have helped me to crystallize my own thoughts on this topic. I'd just like to add another item about the Reinsdorf-owned Sox: Not only has the franchise not won enough, it doesn't believe in the value of building a minor league system. That is an organizational philosophy straight from the top; JR doesn't believe in making premium investments in prospects who haven't "proven" anything yet. So, we take the cheapest route possible in building our system. It isn't a coincidence that the only sustained period of success during the Reinsdorf era came from the efforts of the Himes regime. Instead, we rely on dumpster diving -- looking for bargain free agents and hoping they pan out. Usually, they don't; with 2005 being the glaring exception. Part of the way fans develop a passion for their teams is by following their minor league prospects as they develop. It gives the fans a greater sense of identification with the players as they roll through the system, and the bond with them is strong once they reach the majors. Of course, we have had relatively few prospects worth following the past decade. Many of those who have developed have been traded away. In sum, we don't believe in building from within, and we won't pay top prices for premier free agents. What is left is the steaming pile of mediocrity that is the JR Sox. Like I said in an earlier post, I can no longer support this franchise with this owner. It's difficult to say this, as I've loved the Sox with all my heart since 76. But the bottom line is that this is entertainment. This is not life and death; it's baseball. And if following this team makes me miserable because I fundamentally disagree with several key principles upon which it is run, the onus is on me to change my behavior. I certainly do not expect JR to change. I live in Dallas, and my son loves the Rangers. For years I've tried to steer him towards the Sox, but he finds their games "horrifyingly boring". He always has. Even though the Rangers suck, he'd rather watch them lose 10-7 than watch the Sox win. I'm learning to embrace his thought process, and enjoy the game of baseball with his team rather than worry about the perpetual incompetence of my own. Excellent points, Andy. I would say this to you: I cheered on and supported our White Sox before Reinsdorf and his 1981 self-proclaimed "first class organization" came to town. I have stayed with the team through the 35 years of his stewardship, despite my disappointment in both the on-the-field and off-the-field results during the great majority of this time. I will continue to do so for the remainder of his ownership and hope for the best, but not too terribly optimistic if history is to be my guide with this management team. And most importantly, I will cheer this team on in the post-Reinsdorf era, and I very much look forward to that point in time.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 25, 2015 -> 02:10 PM) I am glad you admitted you have said nothing of substance then, because it was a rephrasing of your post. LOL - there are more posters agreeing with me than you, if you haven't noticed. As for substance, I've provided fact after fact after fact that, of course, there is a correlation between winning and attendance, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. You, on the other hand, have provided absolutely nothing to this discussion, except unnecessary sarcasm and a poorly formed opinion of the fan base based on, what? Conjecture? Certainly nothing verifiable, whatever it is.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 25, 2015 -> 02:07 PM) Funny how your stance keeps softening the further along this goes. The opposite pf your post holds true as well. If this team and game has made you so incredibly miserable, move along. Why do you let it consume you? Apparently you are just fine being miserable, if you are still here, according to the standards you guys laid out for my side of things. Again, we'll see you when the bandwagon fills up again... until then, move along to the team that fills the empty spot you have. Absolute throw away comments.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 25, 2015 -> 12:41 PM) You are the one who says the White Sox have had 1 exciting season over the last 35, so postseason appearances that don't result in winning a WS would be considered total failure and an unexciting season. Yet you use postseason non WS win appearance as positives for other teams. What I have said repeatedly, in relation to why the organization continually has attendance problems, is that we don't win enough. What I've also said repeatedly is that winning is defined as making it to the postseason more often than we do, and then when we get there playing exciting and competitive baseball. I have never once said anything as absurd as we need to win the "trophy" every year, or that we should be in the playoffs every single year. That's ridiculous. But outside of 2005 which, of course, was off-the-charts amazing, in Reinsdorf's 34 other years as owner, there are but four measly playoff appearances and a combined four wins amongst them. So you tell me with that record over three and a half decades now, or even in particular the decade since '05, why anyone should be surprised that attendance is what it is. These attendance issues are a cumulative effect of the lack of achievement by this franchise. As I've said a million times now, we have a dormant fan base that will respond enthusiastically to a team that engages in exciting postseason play. They got a taste of what's that's like in '05, and you couldn't ask for better attendance the following season. But outside of '05, they have not been given that experience at all during our lifetimes. Most of the other franchises have delivered more exciting results to their fans, and the facts support that. For that, I think Mr. Reinsdorf and his management team deserve legitimate criticism. I also think, and this is just my opinion, but I also think the fortunes of this franchise will not change for the better until there is a new owner. It's been 35 years now.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 25, 2015 -> 09:13 AM) I think the bigger problem is that some people think a baseball ticket entitles them to way more then it actually does. Baseball is a sport. It is entertainment. It is a game. It isn't some sort of place for people to get an ego fulfillment because their team owes it to them, or some weird 21st century entitlement idea. The ideas about stomping and pouting and demanding the team do this and that because they owe it to you, the fans, is just silly. I don't know when that idea came into sports, but people need to get over it. These aren't gladiators. This isn't life and death on the line. The whole idea that staying away and quitting somehow makes you better than people who don't, because the team isn't delivering something it apparently owes to you to get you to show up is just mindblowing to me. Even worse is taking to the internet in an effort to get some sort of cyber pat on the back because you are all sad because the team hasn't won enough for you. Baseball is not an entitlement program. It doesn't owe you a regular championship as if you get a trophy just for signing up as a fan. If you need that to feel good about yourself, sign up for another team. Since Jerry Reinsdorf took over the club in 1981, of the other 25 non-expansion teams in existence since then, only four of those teams (Royals, Mariners, Brewers, & Nationals) have been to the postseason fewer times than the Sox. And of those four, one team, the Royals, have made a World Series appearance more often than the Sox. If this record of futility doesn't bother you, if you are fine buying a ticket and getting the kind of quality we just saw during this last home stand, and in 2014, 2013, 2011, all the way through most of Reinsdorf's 35 years at the helm, well then fine - have at it. Buy a full season ticket package and get out there to the park and cheer on the mediocrity. But please don't be so crass and condescending with your completely unnecessary "cyber pat" comments when some of us legitimately look at the record of achievement of the ball club and, on a fan message board, suggest it should be better.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 24, 2015 -> 11:03 AM) The way forward is quitting, at least according this thread. We'll see you all when the bandwagon fills up again. I look forward to the day when the bandwagon fills up again! Are you kidding me? That means we are WINNING once again. That is the goal, in case you've forgotten. Every team has it's bandwagon fans. Who the F cares as long as the team is winning. Geez, why is that so hard for you to understand!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 24, 2015 -> 08:59 AM) Yeah reading the posts in this thread, I don't know where anyone would get the words "fickle" and "bandwagon" from when talking about the White Sox fan base. Yes, thank you! You are exactly right - where does anyone get those silly words! What we are talking about here is performance and how a fan base responds to that performance. Only three playoff appearances since '95 from the only big market team in a generally weak division? Not much for a fan base to get excited about, now is there. And that's precisely the point by several rather astute posters on this thread who are merely suggesting we do a little more of THAT - getting into the playoffs more often and creating some excitement to energize the base. The fans sure seemed to like that in '05, as evidenced by the waiting list for season tickets and the nearly three million fans through the turnstiles the following season. The way forward is more winning by the team and less unnecessary disparaging of the fan base.

Alright, let's do it! Let's give this sellout a thrill!!

QUOTE (fathom @ May 23, 2015 -> 05:40 PM) It's going to be hard for Hahn to find power during the year. Right now, your only power sources are 1b, DH and rf. There's very little, if any, power coming from LF, CF, SS and 2b Or 3rd.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 23, 2015 -> 05:31 PM) Another chopper from right side by Melky. His swing righty is so messed up. 3 for 38. Ouch.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ May 23, 2015 -> 04:17 PM) There's a very slim chance Stoney is back next year. You might be right, but Stoney made an interesting comment earlier about a conversation he had with Paulie on a flight to Arizona last year. He was very complimentary about Paulie's seemingly cerebral thoughts on hitting. Now I am and always will be a big fan of the Hawk, but I kind of like the idea of a Stone/Paulie pairing. Maybe if Hawk reduces his schedule next season and going forward that configuration could come together.

Hmmm...Paulie is quite articulate. Seems at ease behind the mike, too. He may just have a future in our booth.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ May 23, 2015 -> 03:36 PM) Nice to see a full house on a great day weather wise. It is picture perfect out there!

QUOTE (MIZ-SOX @ May 23, 2015 -> 12:39 AM) The White Sox aren't going anywhere. They have a newish stadium in the third largest market in the league. Even with trash attendance, they're the 16th most valuable franchise in the MLB, up 40% from last year. Attendance just doesn't have nearly as big of an impact on the bottom line as it used to, which is definitely a good thing for JR. Well I'm glad that's good for JR - now I can sleep better knowing that. Meanwhile, as for we the fans, since 1995, only two teams in the AL have made it as far as the Al Divisional Series fewer times than the Sox - the Blue Jays and the Royals. And eight of the teams have made it to the AL Championship Series more times. Except for 2005, the ball club has pretty much been nonexistent in the postseason for what seems like forever. There may be other reasons in play for the team's never ending attendance problem, but this is as big a reason as any. In my opinion, of course.

QUOTE (South Sider @ May 22, 2015 -> 04:36 PM) "I haven't completely given up hope on the Reinsdorf regime..." HA! Oh, I have, and with very good reason. The results of Jerry Reinsdorf's 35 years at the helm of this franchise have been a disaster. He has only one season during his tenure as owner that he can point to and really claim to be an exciting and successful one - '05. During the other 34 years, the team only won the division a measly four times, and the playoff appearances those four years were anything but memorable. And then we wonder why the fan base is dormant. Why we have to operate like a small market team because the team Reinsdorf routinely runs out there is not postseason caliber. That is really a horrible record of futility, no matter how you look at it. No sustainable success for three and a half decades now. Meanwhile, over the years he's publicly fought with the likes of Harry Caray, Carlton Fisk and Larry Himes while remaining unapologetically loyal to people like Kenny Williams, Buddy Bell, Robin Ventura, etc. He dumps Harry Caray and WGN in the '80s in favor of SportsVision. He hires Hawk Harrelson to be GM and ends up losing Tony LaRussa in the process. He blackmails the state of Illinois to build him a new stadium while also providing him with a sweetheart lease deal, and then turns around and directs the construction of an abysmally designed ballpark. He fires Himes who drafted Frank Thomas, Ventura, Jack McDowell, Alex Fernandez, Jason Bere, and who traded for Lance Johnson and Wilson Alvarez, claiming Himes got the team from "point A to point B", but he didn't think he could get the team to "point C", i.e., the World Series. In his judgement, Ron Schueler was the guy who could do that. How'd that work out for us! It could have happened in '94, except the Chairman chose his burning desire to break the players' union over the World Series aspirations of his team and fans that year. Terry Freaking Bevington! White flag trade. The list goes on and on and on with this failure. This franchise is in desperate need of new leadership, strategy and vision from the very top. That is very clear. Jerry Reinsdorf has been the owner now for 35 years, and he holds claim to a very unimpressive record of achievement. Yes, the WS championship in '05 was amazing, but that does and cannot mask the other 34 years. The White Sox need new ownership. It's that simple.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 22, 2015 -> 11:17 AM) Apparently you don't read anything that doesn't fit your pre-set agenda. I have even compared our attendance to other teams, including Detroit, to make the point. Even after two of the worst seasons in the entire franchises history, their attendance went up after a 72 win season. Ours goes down after a playoff run. We have a small and bandwagon fan base. Nothing you have said disproves any of that. In fact much of what you say about what it takes to get fans to actually show up only reinforces that. And no, I don't listen to sports talk radio. The last thing I need is to listen to hours of meatball fans complaining about everything under the sun. Comparing our attendance to that of Detroit does nothing to add to what we are talking about here about our attendance problems. And apparently you are not reading anything that doesn't fit your own pre-set agenda, either, which is to blame attendance on fans making excuses, because you were asked to back that claim up with evidence and you didn't. Whatever. In the meantime, we agree to disagree. The club has a very bad attendance problem. I optimistically suggest that would be fixed over time with more sustained winning. That's what I believe to be true. You don't agree, which is fine, and I don't care if you do or not. You're entitled to your opinion. But if what you say is, in fact, true, that sustained winning won't solve the problem, and you are convinced the "small bandwagon" fan base just won't show up for one excuse or another, then Mr. Reinsdorf ought to think about selling the current ballpark that seats 40,000 and building one that only seats 20,000, because to your way of thinking, that's all he'll ever need.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 22, 2015 -> 06:08 AM) I love the way you casually refer to this as as if it were something obvious, like we have a pile of Paul Konerko's sitting around that we are leaving attendance on the table by failing to honor, as if we haven't had two Paul Konerko days in something like the last 20 or 25 home games or something. Yes the fans will show up to see one of the best players in franchise history get his number retired. I will add that to the list of multiple playoff runs in a row you have given me as reasons Sox fans will show up at the ballpark. I am now up to 2 reasons Sox fans will show up at the ballpark. I will have to get back to you on how many reasons they won't show up... You seem to be a reigning authority on these "reasons" or "excuses" you think explain why Sox fans don't show up in droves to the ballpark. You also take the liberty in painting in broad strokes to suggest that the majority of the fan base employs these excuses. How then, pray tell, do you know this to be true. How do you reach your conclusion that the reason for low attendance is a result of an excuse-making fan base? What body of evidence can you point to back up your claim? I say the reason for low attendance is the cumulative effect of a franchise that simply hasn't won enough to generate and sustain enough interest to encourage people to buy more tickets. I can point to 30 of 35 years of non-winning by this current ownership group to support my theory. What about you? Where is your definitive evidence that our fan base is a bunch of excuse makers? Hours and hours of listening to sports radio? Where is it!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 21, 2015 -> 08:00 PM) So the list is now once in a life time player getting his number retired, and once in a franchise history run of playoff runs to get fans to show up. Color me not too impressed with this. Nor am I impressed with your backwards reasoning on all of this. You are the one talking about "lists" and these alleged excuses fans make for not going to the ballpark, not me, as if you've actually surveyed the entire Sox fan base to come up with these conclusions. Meanwhile, I continue to make the very logical point that if you give our fans a compelling reason to come out, they will. Case in point, this Saturday. A good reason to come out, and the fans are eagerly responding. They will respond the same to a team that wins on a more consistent basis than the garbage that has been served up recently by the Sox and for 30 of the 35 years under the current ownership. I mean, what freaking fan base doesn't react well to winning! Do you think our fans don't care about winning? Of course they do, just like every other fan base on this planet. That's common sense, but unfortunately it's a little hard at the moment to prove to your doubting mind because we are in a 35 year franchise slump under Mr. Reinsdorf's leadership, where during that timeframe there's only really been one year of real winning worth talking about.

So let's see, what are we learning here. You give our oft-maligned fan base - you know, the one that allegedly employs every excuse in the world not to come to the ballpark - you give them a "compelling" reason to do so, in this case to pay tribute to a franchise hero, and they pack the place. Not a seat to be had! All of the excuses - poof! Gone! They disappear into thin air! Hmmm...kinda sorta makes your mind wander a bit, perhaps even dream, doesn't it? Makes you wonder if another "compelling" reason were to occur, say, oh, I don't know, maybe if a more consistently WINNING product was put on the field, just what might happen then. I don't know, but it sure would be nice to find out one of these days!

QUOTE (fathom @ May 21, 2015 -> 07:31 PM) If this season tanks, it's going to be quite difficult for the organization to get fans excited again heading into a season. I don't think we can assume they will spend a fortune every offseason like they just did. Let's be careful on how we classify the spending of this past offseason. Saying they spent "a fortune" can maybe suggest to some that they went above and beyond. They certainly did not. They had a ton of money come off the books with trades and expirations of other contracts, so they took that money to obtain players to replace the ones that went away. But at the end of the day, our payroll is only in the middle of the pack in MLB, and only slightly ahead of that of the small market Twins and Royals.