Thad Bosley

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 03:29 PM) Can someone provide some examples of teams trading their ace and it translating to instant more success? You mean an ace Sale's age AND an ace with the type of team-friendly contract he has and the years left of control? Don't know if that example exists.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 02:56 PM) I don't need to build in exceptions. If the Sox trade Sale, attendance will go down. Winning baseball >>>>>>> Presence of any one ballplayer, even Chris Sale Remember, there is no correlation with good attendance while Sale has been on the team. Attendance has been lousy in each season he's been here. Winning baseball, on the other hand, does have a track record with good attendance for the team.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 02:45 PM) I already see you built in an excuse to get out of it. Like I said, its simple. If Sale is gone, attendance will fall. Period. I haven't built in anything. I was clear from the beginning that if they traded Sale for a bag of balls and nothing improves on the field, sure, attendance will either stay at the same miserable level its at, or possibly get worse. My point from the start is that if they get the kind of talent it at least appears they will, and that translates to better results on the field (i.e., MORE WINNING), then attendance goes up. That's what's simple. Period. That is the offer. Take it or leave it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 02:06 PM) If he was really that confident he wouldn't be ignoring my offer. That's OK, I think he knows the truth and is just arguing for argument's sake. [Eye roll followed by exhausted sigh] Ok, SS2K5. You're on. Put yer George Washington's on the table. Borrow some from Dick Allen if you have to. On behalf of Thad Bosley LLP, I accept this compelling offer of yours re: 2017 attendance. If the Sox trade Sale and in the process bring back the kind of elite talent one would expect in a deal for him, and if the result is better play and more winning next year, then attendance will go up. Simple as that.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 01:59 PM) Yeah, Sox fan history totally doesn't agree with you. Look back at White Flag where team attendance fell by 25% year over year. Take a look at 2012 and 2008 where the team was in the playoff race both seasons, and attendance still fell year over year. To me this is a much more realistic lesson on what to expect than some imaginary scenario where the Sox get immediately better from trading their best player, and for some reason Sox fans realize it before day one and still show up. Again, I am willing to put money on it. If the Sox trade Chris Sale, their attendance will fall in 2017. Period. End of story. No qualifiers. No imaginary what if scenarios. 1990 and 2000 called and said "Hey, SS2K5! Check us out if you want to see how Sox fans respond, attendance-wise, to a new, young winning team! We will take your money any day of the week!"

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 01:11 PM) I am not going to play the what if game. I don't feel the need to hide behind imagined scenarios. If Chris Sale is traded, attendance will fall in 2017. You can take me up, or try to imagine scenarios. The choice is up to you. There are no imagined scenarios, but rather two actual ones which can occur. The Sox will be better without Sale, or worse. If they are better and win more, which there is a good chance of this happening if they obtain the kinds of players they've been rumored to be interested in, then attendance goes up. Fans are far more interested in winning than the presence of any one player. If they play worse, then attendance could go down, but you wonder how much farther down it can actually go, y'know?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 12:50 PM) I will put money on it right here and now. If the White Sox trade Chris Sale this winter, their attendance for the 2017 season will be less than 2016. I'm gonna shock the bejeezus outta ya and take a completely different take. I say that winning trumps Sale's presence on the team. You might have had me if, for example, there were 40,000 people packed into the park on night's Sale pitched, but obviously that hasn't been the case. The overall malaise around the team caused by the playoff drought and the recent losing seasons has taken the shine off of having a talent such as Sale on the team, which explains the team's continued attendance problems. That's why the time has come for a clean slate, and hopefully by trading Sale at his maximum value will result in bringing in some new and exciting talent that will produce better results for the team on the field, and then ultimately for the team at the gate.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 12:44 PM) If the Sox trade Chris Sale, their attendance will go down in 2017. No question about it. Even if the team plays better, wins more, and is more exciting to watch overall as a result of the new players obtained? Attendance will go down, you think?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 09:58 AM) Trading Chris Sale isn't going to put more people into the outfield stands. In fact it will do the opposite for the short term, at least. If they get the kind of MLB ready-elite type talent like what has been rumored to be coming the team's way in any deal for Sale, who will improve the team's overall chances at success (i.e., the whole point of trading Sale at this time), then there will inevitably be more fans in the stands as the results of the team improve.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 09:38 AM) So depending on the day, the White Sox either are not worthy of Chris Sale's services, or Sale is such an embarrassing hot head, he needs to be dealt away. Well, it's actually not either your "either" or your "or" here. It's the fact he unfortunately needs to get traded in order to convert him into a different set of assets that will hopefully begin to reverse course for this rapidly sinking franchise. How many people did you count in the outfield stands last night? I counted 12. Something significantly different needs to be done this offseason, and trading Sale is at the top of that list.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Sep 12, 2016 -> 11:25 AM) Chris Sale on reaching 200+ strikeouts four consecutive seasons: “But there’s not a single part of me that wouldn’t give all that to be in the playoffs four years in a row.’’ This is absolutely killing him. Mark Sale said at the beginning of the season that he had yet to play in one meaningful game in his career, obviously referring to zero appearances in the postseason thus far in his career with the White Sox. It's a similar line of thinking with those of us who equate true exciting baseball with playoff appearances, not just settling for a nice run at it in the regular season.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 9, 2016 -> 10:03 AM) I'd say the guys I previously suggest fill those needs: Moreland and Fowler. For probably a slightly higher cost, Alvarez and Desmond would work as well. Sox are currently 12th in the league in offense. Cleveland and Detroit stand at #3 & 4 respectively. How does the addition of these two second tier players even remotely put us in the same ballpark as those two teams? How do those two and Volquez close a 15 game gap with the Indians, and a 9 game gap with the Tigers? Are you just banking on those two teams tanking next season and, for the first time in a very long time, patchwork additions by the Sox catapulting them to the top of the heap?

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 9, 2016 -> 06:18 AM) So let me get this straight. They would consider a Sale trade largely built around a high profile pitching prospect (i.e. Glasnow, Giolito) in hopes that guy can eventually turn into Chris Sale-lite? Better be getting a high profile MLB ready catcher or CF in return as well otherwise that does nothing to improve the team over the next 5 years. I'm not trading Sale for one big time SP prospect and a bunch of B level prospect position players and relievers. That's terrible. Nah, what's terrible is thinking that simply adding Matt Wieters, Edinson Volquez, Dexter Fowler and Mitch Moreland to this lousy roster would somehow transform it into a contender. THAT would be terrible!

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 8, 2016 -> 05:28 PM) When I hear "tear it up" I hear trade Sale, Q, and all other vets on expiring contracts within the next two years. So what is YOUR plan then since I have seemingly misunderstood? Who specifically are you trading and what players are you getting back? Lol - well, since I am neither Rick Hahn nor Kenny Williams, I'm not specifically trading anyone. They are! What I will tell you is that the teams the Sox were rumored to be talking with at the trade deadline and the names that were being bandied about as potential returns for our prized assets were right in line with what I would hope and expect. The fact the team pulled back and decided to wait until this offseason because they think they can do even better than some of those proposals we heard and read about in late July has me more excited for this particular offseason than I've been in a long time.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 8, 2016 -> 12:44 PM) So how do you define "time to tear it up" and "shake this disaster at its core"? You clearly do not want to wait until next July to "tear it up" so I can only assume you want to "shake this disaster at its core" this coming offseason? I certainly don't want to wait past this coming offseason, and all hints suggest that neither does Sox management.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Sep 8, 2016 -> 02:28 PM) You can read into it however you chose, but I interpret "tear it up" as abandoning the status quo and approach, as the Sox try to right the ship for the 2017 season. apply a fresh attitude and, like most intelligent business enterprises do consistently, come up with a new battle plan when things don't work.. instead of trying to fabricate a million and one excuses and woulda-shoulda-couldas when you pick apart the last failed campaign… and again, not really sure what is so hard for you to understand here.. trying to launch your primary rebuild mid-season isn't the wisest approach, because of the fact that teams in contention for the last couple of months, will be less likely to include establish ML'ers as part of any package…. That is exactly what I meant by saying "tear it up", and you are correct, it ain't that hard of a concept to understand.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 8, 2016 -> 10:15 AM) But according to many in this thread there is only one way to rebuild and that is to trade all major league pieces as soon as possible, but keep Rodon, Anderson, and Fulmer. The ironic thing is Rodon is only controlled one year more than Q and the same length as Eaton so might as well trade him too then. Interesting. I don't recall one poster saying that.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 8, 2016 -> 07:15 AM) Totally this. Apparently there aren't various levels of discontent. It is either "peaches and cream" or military coup. And it is way worse this year. Way more bitter... way more angry. The small market Kansas City Royals have won more postseason games in just the past two years than the large market Chicago White Sox have in the past 56. That would, amongst many other things, explain what you seem to interpret as a "bitter" and "angry" attitude of a fan base that has been failed by decades of inept ownership going all the way back to 1960, not to mention the complete disaster that has been the past four seasons.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 09:47 PM) Who said the fan base was content last year? Dramatic much? I said the fan base is increasingly more impatient and frustrated now than they were a year ago (that doesn't mean the fan base was content last year) while you said they were equally frustrated and impatient last year. You're wrong. In absence of an official poll, I will let others chime in on this subject (well Caulfield already did). I keep telling you that you're right. It's clearly night and day the way the fans felt after the '13, '14, & '15 seasons with only a seven year playoff drought, and how they feel now after the '13, '14, '15 AND the '16 season, AND a playoff drought now grown to eight years. It's amazing how different it feels now versus last year.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 09:32 PM) On this I am absolutely right. Good luck finding someone to agree with you on this. You are totally right. It's almost night and day the difference in frustration being expressed here lately with what was done so at the same time last year. Nobody seemed to mind the cumulative effect of the '13, '14, & '15 seasons with the seven year playoff drought last year. But 2016 changed everything. We've gone from a content fan base to a completely frustrated one just because of this year's ineptitude. I apologize - I clearly did not remember the mood of the fans from just one year ago.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 09:21 PM) WRONG Lol - ok, I give up. You win. You're right - it was all peaches and cream with the fan base this time last year. This was the year when the straw broke the Sox fan base's back. Oh, for the calm and content of this time last year!

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 09:11 PM) Yes I'm serious. How many people on this site alone have stated that they have never been so frustrated and upset with White Sox baseball? There is absolutely more angst amongst the fan base now than there was a year ago at this time. Go back and look at the threads from a year ago. Angst at the same level then as it is now. Nothing has changed on that front.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 08:48 PM) Do you honestly believe the White Sox fan base was as impatient and frustrated one year ago as they are today? I strongly disagree with that assessment. LOL - are you serious?! Were you around for seasons 2013, 2014, & 2015? Those were three, long and brutal seasons for the fan base to endure. The Sox were last in TV ratings and 27th in attendance in all of baseball last year. If that doesn't translate to frustration to you, I don't know what will. Wow.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 08:17 PM) I'm hopeful that a greater sense of urgency resulting from an increasingly impatient fan base will be enough for him to increase it $15-20MM higher than it was this year (roughly in line with 2011 levels). It's not saying much but they are on track for their highest season attendance since 2012 so I'm hoping that helps too. Same sense of urgency in place one year ago: long playoff drought and impatient fan base. Yet you saw the retooling efforts they expended last offseason. Again, do you really expect anything different from a payroll perspective from the owner? And what's your view if he won't raise the payroll? Then what?

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 06:53 PM) I think they intended to compete but sure didn't spend like it last offseason. I honestly believe even Hahn knew that the signings were destined for failure but he was likely given a hard cap on what he could spend. Do you think Hahn would have settled for guys like Latos, Rollins and Jackson if he was given a larger budget? That's why I have been saying that if they want to compete next year JR has to be willing to increase the payroll. They won't be able to compete otherwise. Well, he wasn't willing last offseason when we were essentially in the same situation as we will be heading into this offseason. With seemingly the same resources at his disposal as was available last offseason, what changes this time around where you might expect him to increase payroll to the extent necessary to acquire the quantity and quality of additions it would take to turn this lemon of a roster into a legitimate contender?