Eminor3rd

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 06:41 AM) Worst case scenario is he gets tommy john It can be a lot worse than TJ. See Nate Jones, Jesse Crain, or any pitcher that's had shoulder issues.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 02:24 AM) Yes, the point being a more developed SS, even ranked 17th in the Rangers' system...playing a premium position, there's a lot more potential value than a 16 year old, or even signing five of them. Not to mention the Rangers have an excellent Latin American pipeline, it's where Preller earned his stripes. Finally, the fact that Leury (coming from Tex as well) had a somewhat similar background (more speed and positional versatility) and has turned into a positive asset for the org. Also, other than Nunez, Adolfo and now Tatis, most of our J2 guys haven't exactly lit the world on fire quite yet. This move, though, would seem to indicate one of two things — either the Rangers have more international players they have deals with that they need pool money to sign, or the Rangers are loading up on pool money to maximize what they can offer Japanese pitcher Shohei Ohtani. Ohtani, if you are not familiar, is a 23 year old stud pitcher in Japan who the Rangers have been scouting for some time, and who Jon Daniels and company went and scouted in May (despite Ohtani being sidelined at the time). Ohtani is considered the best pitching prospect from Japan since...well, since Yu Darvish. He’s viewed as a legitimate top-of-the-rotation starting pitcher. The Rangers, by all accounts, want Ohtani badly. And if Ohtani wants to come over to the U.S. this offseason, any team who is willing to pay the $20 million posting fee (the new maximum amount allowed) that goes to Ohtani’s team, the Nippon Ham Fighters, can negotiate with Ohtani. However, Ohtani is subject to the J-2 limits, just as any other international free agent under the age of 25 is. https://www.lonestarball.com/2017/7/15/1597...onus-pool-money So...this may be nothing. Or it may be a sign that the Rangers expect Ohtani to announce this offseason he’s coming to the United States, and are loading up on available international bonus pool money they can offer him. FWIW, Otani just made his season debut last Wednesday and got shelled. Didn't get out of the 2nd inning. He was visibly frustrated and was missing his spots bu 12+ inches at times. The stuff looked sharp and the velo was fine -- I think it was pretty clearly rust. But it'll be interesting to see if he can regain full form before the end of the season, and if he doesn't, if it means he waits another year.

Nothin to lose sleep over, my friend.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 12:33 PM) ? I feel like Boston should have gotten Frazier like a month ago.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 12:26 PM) Because adding 3 good relievers would be better than adding just 2. Especially when you bought the first 2 so cheap. Right but they've been balking at the Sox price for like 8 months now, while blowing like a game a week. Clearly they didn't want to give up serious prospects for a closer, and they just got two of the Proven Closer™ brand. I'd be absolutely shocked if they ponied up now.

I can't believe they waited for the deadline for this.

What are you guys talking about? Both of those guys have tons of closing experience and are having good seasons.

QUOTE (Quin @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 03:34 PM) Maybe place a deadline on it? Like can't trade picks once the season has begun? That way if Rick Hahn for sure wanted Beer, but didn't think he'd be taken #1 or #2, he could trade down. That might work, actually -- having a deadline on it. I just don't think the owners have any desire for it.

QUOTE (Quin @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 02:41 PM) Yet we can't trade draft picks. Because trading draft gives leverage back to players.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 01:47 PM) Come on! So trade someone else from a strength to free up the cash! I refuse to believe that this is about money. If it is, the guy needs to be more f***ing creative. To me, the guy is trying to be cute, and he's going to get burned. I understand the argument that Robles needs to replace Harper, but PEOPLE, do you understand NO ONE WILL REPLACE HARPER. Harper is a generational player that was doing in the major leagues what Robles is doing in A ball at the same age. The Nats need to WIN while Harper is still in their uniform, not dick around worrying about a guy in A ball. Again, not saying he should just trade Robles to the White Sox for all their relievers. But he absolutely should be willing to move minor league assets to win now. Because if they lose in the postseason because Rizzo went cheap on the pen, I can't imagine Harper is going to care that Robles is still around. And if they fail to win while Harper is here, it isn't going to be easier than it is now because Robles comes in to replace him. I mean I don't disagree with you, I'm just trying to rationalize his behavior. Who knows what constraints the ownership group have put on him? We all know what it's like to have to execute something you know is dumb because your boss made the call. Maybe he just legitimately believes the asking prices will go down at the 11th hour.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 11:47 AM) Rizzo is not an idiot, so to me this is screaming that they just don't have budget. This could be an attempt of saying "look seriously we have no options, we need to take on at least another 10 mill." I think you're right. It's such a s***-show, they're really not fooling anyone with these random minor leaguers. There's no actual defense of it as a strategy unless he simply doesn't have other options.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 11:32 AM) I don't like playing the prospect game but since the Sox are doing so, you probably are over-criticizing the deal. The rating game can be stupid but Eloy is the No. 5 player in baseball and films of him are promising as he hits some bombs. At 6-4 he looks the part of slugger. Cease is the Cubs' No. 1 pitching prospect. If you want to go the prospect route, you probably can't argue with this one on paper. Eloy in theory could be playing for the Sox a long time, at least til he hits the big payday in free agency. Also don't forget if you throw out the recent dominance of Q, he's been hit a bit this season. I expect him to be great for the Cubs the rest of the year and I think he will wake them up, but you don't know. I'm wait and see on the prospect game, but on paper you get a great hitting prospect in Eloy and a team's No. 1 pitching prospect. Most of the fans on here are committed to a rebuild, not sure if you are or not, but if you want a rebuild, I don't think you could probably ask for more. That third prospect the Sox got has 14 home runs this year. Not bad for a throw in. Unfortunately it's wait and see. Sox aren't interested in acquiring major league ready guys right now. So it's add two more (on paper) blue chip prospects and see what happens. I love Q but it's possible you are over-valuing him as well. When he was having all those mediocre starts earlier in the season and the high ERA, he didn't exactly look overwhelmingly good. Sox have several players now projected to take over certain positions in the next few years. I can see why you hate the deal but there's no way to positively grade it right now. On paper, the Sox 3 major trades all brought future stars to the team. So you HAVE been reading all of our replies!

This is the most valuable contribution Cody Asche can make to this team. If any change occurs, it should be to honor our official TANK COMMANDER, James Shields.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 08:53 AM) Victor Caratini Ahh, that makes more sense.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 08:35 AM) I like the prospects we got and I'm sure that Mr. Hahn got the best return that he could. I'm just wondering if it was even possible to pry that young catcher who's name escapes me (not Contreras) who they rate pretty high from the Cubs instead of Cease. Seems to me that he would be blocked by Contreras anyway. Zagunis?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 11:47 AM) If he stays healthy and develops like he should, he probably gets you at least as much as Q. I think though if he shows dominance in the second half, he is gone in the winter, or a deadline guy next year. His years don't match up with the rebuild very well. He'll be pitching too many meaningless games. Just about the time total domination hopefully starts. Boras gets him $200 million. Yeah, unfortunately he probably isn't part of the next contender because it's so unlikely he signs an extension. But the time to move him is after he becomes a consistently above average pitcher. We'll have him for at least another calendar year, maybe two.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 07:02 PM) I spoke with several Sox and Cub fans around town today and to a man, every cub fan liked the trade and every so fan was madder than he11. Why make a trade that helps the cubs...in any way shape of form? Hahn had other alternatives. Because the Cubs have almost nothing to do with the White Sox chances to win a title.

Genghis Hahn, prospect pillager. ALL HAIL!

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 04:33 PM) I love your posts, but I have to admit, this comes off as a bit presumptuous. Why should that be the goal? We've seen some crazy s*** just happen. Now we're going to immediately go back to saying that we're all crazy? I get it, Hahn isn't a miracle worker, but I, for one, am a little gunshy about saying something as prescriptive as you just did. We were just told by a few different posters something to the effect of "Guys, stop even bothering to think about a trade with the Cubs. It simply will never happen." Well, it just happened. Disclaimer: I am not meaning to insinuate this is all directed at you, CWS, you just happened to be the guy that triggered my rant. My apologies in advance. I think you're sleeping on Kieboom

This was a critical part of the rebuild, but now we have to draft well, sign well, and try to acquire post-hype change-of-scenery candidates. This thing is a numbers game -- a lot of our favorite guys right now are going to bust. We have to amass enough that we get enough hits despite the inevitable attrition, and you can't do that just by trading three or four big platers, no matter how well you do it.

Best possible return, realistically. I already miss Quintana but treating f***ing job Rick hahn

My favorite active player. I will always remember fondly trying to come up with witty medieval style words to put alongside pictures of Quetzalcoatl when my turn to create the game thread came along. Best of luck, mighty serpent. You are better than the Cubs deserve, but you make the organization easier to root for.

If we get a guy like Jimenez, Brinson, or Acuna, we are likely not going to have heard of anyone else in the deal. I'm not convinced any of those guys are even on the table. The sooner we all admit that Quintana isn't going to bring a Sale-like return, the better. There have been multiple sources reporting from different angles for months now all indicating that this is the case. I really think everyone on the board should be absolutely stoked if we get a top20 prospect in a deal and shouldn't expect to get a second piece any better than a back-end 100 guy at most. Couple lotteries after that. I'm not saying it should or shouldn't be this way, I'm just saying it very likely IS this way.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 10:02 PM) Yeah, I'm not a huge Cease fan, but I'll take him as the 2nd piece if Jimenez is the headliner. If we get Jimenez, we'll take ANYONE as a 2nd piece.

QUOTE (OklahomaBrave @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 08:49 PM) I saw Enscheffs posts, he is a regular at talking chop where I post. And I posted here frequently all offseason, and started reading here daily again about a week or so ago. Side note, I like your board! Homerism is present for all fans of all teams of course, but I feel as though you have a really reasonable well informed fan base. I don't really agree that the Braves follow the surplus value model Enscheff presented, so I don't personally agree with that reasoning, although his logic is sound and well presented. I said back in the offseason I didn't think the Braves would trade Acuna or Maitan. I think that is more true now than it was this offseason. I think they would trade any pitcher, and even though the Whitesox have great young pitchers, they could use a top shelf lefty. Allard is our best pitching prospect, but I think he could be had. I believe he's better, and held in higher regard than Newcomb, even though the later is in our rotation. I do think they would trade Albies. I know Ensheff doesn't like him, but Austin Riley is a legit prospect and could be trade fodder as well. He has real plus power and many scouts are enthused about his improving body and defensive work. He also has a cannon. He's probably in the 120-150 range for many listers. People with sources I've talked to seem to think we'd prefer to trade Allard to Soroka, which I disagree with, but whatever. I'd be surprised if they gave up both Allard AND Albies since they are both too 25ish guys. For those mentioning Pache, if he were the third piece, be psyched. Wait until Longerhans at FG's list is published, he LOVES Pache, and I believe him to be the best public evaluator. I'd hate to lose Pache, but I believe they'd include him. The Braves will trade anyone from depth. We have a ton of pitching and a good amount of MI. Our outfield depth is ok enough we can lose Pache. Thanks for the info -- all of my much less informed opinions of the Braves prospects seem to match yours exactly, so that makes me feel better.