Eminor3rd

Only means so much, but it's at least encouraging: G: 16 PA: 68 K%: 17.6 BB%: 23.5 AVG: .277 OBP: .500 SLG: .426 HR: 1 SB: 7 BABIP: .353 wRC+: 175

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 06:01 AM) Existing in a big market SHOULD make you a big market team. That's a no-brainer, and only an irrational angry mindset would not allow one to reach this easy conclusion. It's the embarrassingly ineffective management of the past several decades that has precluded this organization from taking advantage of the great market that is Chicago. Chicago Metro population = 9,512,999 Ok, let's assume the Cubs and White Sox can each capture half the market on average: Chicago Metro population divided by 2 = 4,756,500 Ok, now let's compare that to other market sizes: Atlanta = 5,710,795 San Diego = 3,263,000 Dallas/Ft. Worth = 6,426,214 Seattle = 3,733,580 Washington DC = 6,097,684 Phoenix = 4,574,531 Miami = 5,008,000 The White Sox are a mid-market team because, although Chicago is a large market by itself, the market is divided by additional competition, whereas most other baseball markets are not.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 3, 2017 -> 06:20 PM) I don't think it's necessarily fair to tell the long-suffering yet faithful fans to go away and watch hockey because they are voicing their discontent with the continued failures of the organization. Better served to join the increasing echoes of those looking for a change in ownership, given how the current owner (who is the LONGEST TENURED OWNER in MLB, mind you!) is just now "beginning" to "get those two things right" you referred to. Almost 40 years at the helm and they're just now getting around to that. Unbelievable. You'd think with having the longest tenured owner that the Sox would be the model franchise by now, the one by which the others are judged, with the "White Sox Way" copied over and over and over again. Yet it's almost exactly the opposite. Excessive failure on the field year in and year out, resulting in bottom-of-the-barrel attendance and TV/radio ratings. All of this for a franchise residing in a big market. Again, unbelievable, and again, time for a new owner. There's no problem with voicing your discontent with ownership, but I think most of us have a problem with jumping in and pissing on practically every other thread. I'm not saying it's necessarily you, and maybe it's mostly greg, but some of us still like to follow the team and try to get excited about the players and would rather do it without a doomsday post derailing every conversation.

Sox spend PLENTY of money to win a title. They've sucked primarily because of two things: (1) an overly aggressive contention strategy that continually bet heavy on a stars-and-scrubs approach, and (2) and eight year stretch of terrible drafting and player development. They'll be relevant again when they start to consistently get those two things right. And most signs point to them beginning to do it. It's going to take some time. If you don't like it, go watch hockey.

QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Jul 3, 2017 -> 02:04 PM) Couple things that I'd like to add: 1. You said "typical" prospect. However, the research looked into the careers of position players that appeared in a Top 100/Top 150 list. This is actually the oposite of a "Cherry picked" sample, as you suggested. Adolfo has to look up about ~100 spots or so before he sniffs a Top 100 list. Because of this, his likelihood of busting is Higher, not lower. 2. You cite 21% as a success rate, but again, that's for all (high OR low OR average K rate) among Top 100 position players. When you further filter to Adolfo"s cohort (again, the exact opposite of "cherry picking ") the success rate (if he were in a Top 100 list, which he isn't ) is a mere 13%. For a non-Top 100 type, the success rate is likely less. Lastly, I agree that the research is dated. But, I challenge you to find a study that shows that it is a GOOD THING for a prospect to have a high K rate & low BB rate. If we have subsequent research that shows the opposite of this one, then I'll agree that this study should be disregarded. Thanks for disagreeing, without being disagreeable. And if you have contrary research, Id love to see it. What are you trying to accomplish with this argument? It's okay to think Adolfo is an overrated prospect, but you seem to be arguing that we should just release him immediately. Why? We all understand that he has swing and miss issues. We're hoping that he corrects them around the time he can legally drink.

No rush at all

QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Jul 1, 2017 -> 06:09 PM) Adolfo simply isn't a prospect until he can drop the K rate. I think that perhaps, friend, you are mistaken as to what the word "prospect" means. Perhaps what you mean to say is that Adolfo simply won't be an MLB player until he can drop his K rate. This is reasonable and very probably true. However, the fact that he is an undeniably physically gifted and very young man who is succeeding in many ways despite a high K rate that results from a very raw approach means that he very much IS a prospect. Currently. If you're looking to the minor league system and expecting to find it full of prospects without flaws, that simply need time to grow bigger in order to step right into an MLB lineup and produce, you are ever bound to be disappointed. The object of a rebuild can not realistically be to acquire 10 Bryce Harpers, but it can certainly be to acquire 100 Micker Adolfo's, from which 10 MLB players will rise.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 30, 2017 -> 07:03 PM) If you extended Martin or Cervelli at that same exact point in their careers...you'd have done just fine. Catchers don't mature until around 30 because of all the mental aspects of the game to master. Gary SANCHEZ has been the exception, not the rule. Wilson Contreras, as well. No reason they couldn't have kept him until 2019/20 as a bridge to the competitive team, like Abreu and Avi. Caulfield have you been following the White Sox over the past few years? The Chicago White Sox non-tendered Tyler Flowers after the 2015 season, fresh off a .239/.295/.356 campaign, before his final trip through arbitration in his age 29 season -- because the team was ALL-IN and desperately signed two free agent veterans in hopes of finding some offense. Wtf do you mean "kept him to be the bridge to a competitive team?" Also, the Francisco Cervelli contract has been HORRIBLE since basically a week after it was signed. If anything, Cervelli's situation would be illustrative of why NOT to believe in a random fluke career offensive performance for an aging, bad hitting catcher.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 30, 2017 -> 04:33 PM) Caulfield...Flowers is 31. And spent six years on the MLB roster. A starter for like, three. We "developed" the f*** out of Tyler Flowers

JESUS TAKE THE WHEEL

My favorite recurring article on the entire internet.

Alcides Escobar is a garbage player.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jun 30, 2017 -> 09:01 AM) The only way I could see packaging Quintana and Robertson together and getting that proposed offer would be the Sox not eating any money on Robertson. If the Sox ate some of Robertson's remaining contract, I would think another piece would be included. Agreed. I hadn't noticed the Heyman report on salary. If that's true, Robertson is much more valuable in a separate deal.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 30, 2017 -> 07:14 AM) For both guys? We can't forget that it isn't a given that the Sox will be willing to eat any of Robertson's salary.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jun 29, 2017 -> 12:54 PM) Why do you think Tucker is overrated? His rates have gone the wrong way with every promotion. He looks like another swing-heavy, questionable approach OF guy with a couple plus tools but nothing plus-plus. I'm not saying he's a bad prospect, but I don't think he's in the same league as those other guys.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 29, 2017 -> 01:49 PM) 14 million? He's thrown out zero runners all year. What a bizarre business is baseball. How did a player this bad get a contract paying him 14 million bucks? It's all ridiculous, folks. It's just money. I hope Jerry throws it away. Sign the guy. I'm very very pissed that myfavorite team is done before July again. This organization blows. Spend spend spend, Jerry. sign him. Thank goodness we won one title in 05 cause we're not winning another until Jerry and his posse sell and we start over. MARK CUBAN save us please. greg I'm starting to actually be concerned for your health. Do you realize you spent exactly 50% of this post to the word bashing the guy as an overpaid chump and the rest of it pleading for us to sign him?

Nah. He's always been controversial on the clubhouse, pitchers don't want to change catchers midseason, wins don't matter for us this years, etc.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jun 29, 2017 -> 12:53 PM) I wonder if the Twins would ever get involved with Quintana. Obviously it is unusual to see divisional trades with major long term pieces, but the Twins would no doubt be interested in Q. They need pitching really bad. Cost control is a huge factor for them. While their farm system is not nearly as exciting as it was a couple years ago, it is still solid, and obviously have a ton of interesting young pieces on the ML squad. I don't know if they have enough positional player talent to pull off a trade for Q without something off their major league roster, though. I would imagine the Sox would have some interest in Max Kepler, even though he isn't a huge OBP guy. Prospects like Nick Gordon (SS), Alex Kirilloff (OF) are both top 100 guys, but Kiriloff is hurt and hasn't played this year (and is also several years away). They also have some interesting LHP. Yeah man, Acuna has HUGE helium. True CF with 70 run and a better bat than everyone thought. This is my pref order: Acuna Jimenez Frazier Verdugo Tucker I highly doubt Acuna or Jimenez are available. I think Frazier might be simply because the Yankees actually have so much high-end OF depth in the upper minors/majors. I think Tucker, like pretty much all of the Astros prospects at the moment, is overrated.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 28, 2017 -> 03:31 PM) I've posted this before but I'll post again here. I have a buddy that is good friends with someone close to Braves organization. He told me in the winter that Atlanta was really interested but balked at trading Maitan or Acuna in the deal. I posted all of that here. This guy gets legit Braves info a lot but the White Sox/Quintana stuff always seemed off so I never "run" with it. I've heard heavy pitching packages as the rumored offers with the following names in play: Mike Soroka, Max Fried, Luiz Gohara, Akeel Morris, and Touki Toussant. I don't think Hahn would go for an all pitching package but Rogers and Ofman have both mentioned Braves interest as well as Atlanta Journal Constitution beat guy Dave O'Brien. Just FYI I guess. All that makes perfect sense. I want Acuna SO bad though.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 28, 2017 -> 11:33 AM) He definitely was a Soxtalk whipping boy. People despised him. Glad for him that he's doing well. He'd go into horrendous 1 for 40ish type slumps (Avi is halfway through a doozy now) but he was a likeable player cause of the occasional bombs he'd hit. With the advance of the framing stat for the advanced statniks, he'd be very popular now if he was still with the Sox. Pitch framing had not yet become a big deal until his final year with the Sox. Now he'd be proclaimed acceptable to good by the stat people if he was just starting his Sox career. We were well aware of his framing skill. He was so bad at everything else that it wasn't worth it.

I'm going to be fine with whatever they get for Frazier, especially because I doubt they'll eat any salary.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 27, 2017 -> 05:55 PM) People are going to be very disappointed with the return. Yep, lol.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 26, 2017 -> 07:54 PM) All I can say is I agree. The draft is a ridiculous crapshoot. The best way to win is sign guys like Abreu and (hopefully) Robert. I'm in favor of that cause I could give a s*** about how much money Jerry spends since the chairman and his peeps do not care about us spending 9 bucks for a hot dog and whatever it costs to park at a game. Add to signing guys like Robert SMART drafting when your pick comes up as well as FREE AGENCY, you know, signing guys who have already done it and proven they can do it. You can't change people's minds. Draft-niks won't admit it, but they are part of the sports cliche -- you know, the one that always is more interested in future names than current ones. I won't change my opinion; they won't change theirs. So be it. But there are so many busts out there who are deemed "prospects." You so clearly don't follow baseball.

Who cares?

Even if you think he's turned a corner, he's going to see some major BABIP regression. The current .417 BABIP version of Garcia has been good for a 147 wRC+, which is comfortably star level, if a tick or two short of superstar level. If you think he might match his career BABIP going forward (which is somewhat generous but certainly possible) of .335, and he maintains his drastically increased 22% HR/FB rate, you're probably looking at a ~125 wRC+ -- which, as a corner outfielder, is nothing to shake a stick at, but it's not a star unless it's attached to a good defender. If the BABIP comes down to career AND the HR rate comes back to Earth, however, you're probably looking at more of a league average player. And while that's a splendid outcome for Avi's career at this point, I don't know that it's something you take for 2.5 years if you have the chance to sell much higher now. I think that, even if you accept that he's become a legitimate big leaguer, all signs still point to a ton of regression. If we were close to contention, I think you stockpile that type of guy, but if we'd have to extend him and hope he staves off decline in order to see his contribution on our next winner, I think it makes sense to sell high if you can. That doesn't mean any team is going to want to BUY high, but I think if the opportunity arises, it's the right move for the Sox.