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There isn't going to be be a better market for Quintana. You can't get better than being literally the only TOR pitcher available. The market may be scarce again someday, but Quintana will have less control then, and he can't realistically pitch better than he has been pitching. It's certainly possible for someone to pay more later, but it's not likely. That doesn't mean take a BS offer, but there is definitely real motivation to get the deal done this offseason if at all possible.

QUOTE (TheTruth05 @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 07:25 AM) Is this more of a compliment for Moncada or a warning about Collins? It's both, I guess, depending on the context. Maybe just an observation that Moncada is simply in a totally different class than anyone we have been used to evaluating in the FS era. Different precedent. I guess it also means that putting Collins on the "slow track" may be just as good for his bat as it is for his glove, especially if Moncada (as a point of comparison) isn't necessarily MLB ready.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 11:25 AM) I would love to get an offensive monster type production out of second base as long as he can be at least average defensively. You move him to 3rd or center it drops his offensive value down a notch in my book. I am firmly on the "Moncada to CF" train. If we're doing clubs, I'll be the leader. Reasoning: 1. 2B is trending toward an offense-first position. I've read that this is because as teams all get better a shifting, 2B is becoming much easier to play. 2. The word on Moncada appears to be something like elite speed, plus arm, below-average hands, poor footwork. That sounds a lot like Billy Hamilton with a better arm (and probably a little less speed), and seeing how becoming a CFer literally turned him from a fringey bench piece into a solid starter. 3. The bat plays anywhere; I'll take it from a potentially elite CF instead of a hopefully passable 2B all day, every day.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 03:46 PM) I believe framing is a real stat unlike some, but I do wonder if it gets to a point where an umpire will see a catcher always posting good framing numbers, and start to use it against him. They are human. I am sure they see these lists. If Tyler Flowers always gets balls called strikes, couldn't it eventually lead to an umpire calling what he considers borderline pitches thrown to him balls because they figured his framing has given them an illusion? This is probably true, but I think that bad receivers will be able to turn borderline strikes into balls LONG after good receivers have lost the ability to turn balls into strikes. I wouldn't look at the Collins exercise as "framing practice" as much as I'd look at it as "quiet hands" practice.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 04:55 PM) Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 22m22 minutes ago Todd Steverson on Zack Collins: "That looks like a nice No. 1 pick for us," Somewhat related: I was coincidentally watching video today on several of our prospects (YouTube has some cool stuff on many of our guys), and I was absolutely awe-struck how many zillion times better Moncada looked than Collins while hitting.

QUOTE (Username @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 08:36 PM) I've already touched on this but I really think the Braves might be posturing for a big starter trade. 1) Most obvious: recent rumors for them on Q and Archer. 2) They attempted to get Brandon Phillips and then signed Sean Rodriguez. Would seem to indicate Albies is expendable, which a lot of Braves fans have been speculating. 3) They extended Inciarte, potentially making Acuna long-term expendable (I now he's far away). 4) The trade today . . . trading a useful OF and bullpen piece for more young lefties, which is exactly what they already have ton of. After rejecting that massive offer for Archer (from the Astros) and then trading Smyly, I think it's totally possible the Rays hold onto Archer this year. This has already been somewhat touched on but Albies + Acuna + two of their young high-upside lefties makes a ton of sense. And I think there's been way too much smoke on them to think they aren't serious. I agree that it definitely SEEMS like it, I just can't get past the idea that it makes so little sense for them to do it. It's easy to see why it makes sense for many teams to get involved in a guy like Quintana when he's available (because it's so rare that that's the case), but if Hahn's price is really the FULL market price, given favorable selling conditions, it behooves a team like the Braves to pass. They really aren't that different from the Yankees in that regard -- both teams are seen to be "getting younger," but while both may be moving into the stage where MLB talent is worth buying, neither has moved past the stage where they shouldn't only be making deals where they feel like they came out ahead in one way or another. The types of deals we're all expecting Hahn is asking for are "you know you're paying top dollar but this is the final piece you need and flags fly forever" types of deals. The Pirates and the Astros could both be in situations where they see a contention opportunity that may not last more than a season or two, but the Yankees and Braves are still very much looking up at behemoths in their divisions, and should not be interested in paying top dollar for upgrades.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 05:21 PM) Yea, that's what I thought. I'm just getting frustrated with no trades getting done. Yeah, we all are, I think.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 05:05 PM) Meadows remains the key to a deal with the Pirates. I think Bell is too risky, His defense is awful, he may not have enough power or hitting prowess to be a full time DH. OK, I understand this may be heresy for some hoping for a 3-5 year rebuild, but if this rebuild plan fizzles and the Sox can't trade Q, Frazier, Abreu, and Melky for what they believe they are worth, what if the Sox decide to reverse the wheels from a total tank style rebuild? Can the Sox compete for the Division, assuming they add a legit major league outfielder or two with Malky and Charlie Tilson in Left and Center? Narvaez, Soto catching, and infield of Frazier, Tim Anderson, Moncada and Abreu ? Rotation anchored by Quintana and Rodon? Players can always be traded. It is not that easy to assemble a 25 man roster that is competitive and no guarantee that blowing it up gets that done any time soon. Maybe I'm just getting too nervous about this rebuilding plan and worried it won't work. I would think you'd be way MORE nervous about a contention plan that is centered on last year's White Sox minus Adam Eaton and Chris Sale.

Honestly, any deal with Meadows + either Keller/Newman makes me extremely happy. I literally don't even care what the others are. It could be Meadows/Keller + two members of the grounds crew.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 03:49 PM) When do you realistically expect him to be a productive member of our team? How many years of control will we have left with the rest of our core by that point? With a rebuild you want a core of players all hitting the majors in a short period of time. That's how you optimize your window of contention. I don't think this is true. What teams want is a consistently productive farm that gives them options in any given year. That means talent at all levels. Remember that lo level talent often contributes to a contender by being traded at the right time.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 01:48 AM) Re: Willy. Is our outfield the worst in baseball history? Just asking. Our infield could be one of the most productive offensively in team history. Abreu, Moncada, Anderson, Frazier. Are we even going to try to put anybody in the outfield who is MLB caliber? And catcher is disgracefully bad. Might as well put Saladino out there in center just to let him have 500 at bats. I still say if we kept Q we potentially have a playoff rotation and with Robertson and Nate, on paper, we have a playoff bullpen. We're just horrid in OF, catcher and DH. Are the Sox still gonna trade everybody?? The way it stands today, this rebuild is barely off the ground. We're closer to contending (at this time) than rebuilding. Now trade Q and Nate and Robertson and Frazier and Melky that's a different story. p.s. Why not trade a prospect or two for Alex Gordon and sign Cespedes? Wouldn't we be favored in the Central? lol wat #potentialplayoffrotation 1. Jose Quintana 2. Carlos Rodon 3. JAMES SHIELDS 4. Miguel Gonzalez 5. Derek Holland?

QUOTE (Jake @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 12:21 PM) I think a return of Glasnow, Keller, Newman, and Diaz is not something that you would want to shut the door on. I suspect that is something that Pirates are not yet comfortable with, actually. Agreed.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 03:25 PM) Also, I know nobody wants to think this way yet, but if the White Sox dont trade Jose Quintana because nobody offered them a stronger return than they got for Sale the thought of this "rebuild" being nothing more than a cleaning out of last springs troublemakers will be hard to deny. I see absolutely no evidence of that, whatsoever.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 8, 2017 -> 02:22 PM) Per MLB's Rankings 2015: Anderson #38, Fulmer #42 2014: Rodon #19, Anderson #81 2013: Davidson #64 Basabe would have been top in 2012...man, our MLB.com Top 5 was Trayce, Hawkins, Charle Leesman, Nestor Molina and Keenyn Walker. I'll never forget Nestor Molina.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 03:32 PM) Well, to be fair, that is not what the poster here asked. The question the poster here asked is might it be worth it to hold onto Q for as long as two more years and either move him then or still allow him to be your top of the rotation starter in 2019? With responded with an answer to a slightly different question, although I thought the metaphor was a pretty good one. I think the only real distinction between Cameron's answer to the other question and the answer to the question our poster asked is the additional tweak I provided. Fair indeed. But, also to be fair, the comment EYE responded to was this: "Cameron's comment about Q being the most expensive #4 starter in history. What is he smoking? Terribly off base with that comment."

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 03:21 PM) Let's say I bought the car before I decided to return to college, back when I actually had a decent-paying job. Now I know I should sell the car, but what if the offers I'm receiving aren't fair value? Yes, I know the car is depreciating the longer I keep it, but where is that balance between obtaining full market value and holding on to a depreciating asset that I have no need for? That's the question. Yes, that's what Hahn is dealing with, you're right. But that's NOT the question that occurred in the chat, which drew the car metaphor. The chatter was saying that Quintana would be an effective mid to back end-rotation starter on a reasonable deal when they were likely to be good again, so they shouldn't trade him.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 01:59 PM) Cameron's comment about Q being the most expensive #4 starter in history. What is he smoking? Terribly off base with that comment. The point is that there's opportunity cost. In addition to his salary, that Sox would be "paying" the rights to a bunch of prospects in order to keep and use Quintana. In the case of the car, the student would be "paying" the difference in its current value and what it would be worth when he needed it. He "loses" the amount of depreciation.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 01:27 AM) Also tweeted this out. No reason to think it has any validity. nside Baseball ‏@InsideBaseball6 4h4 hours ago #Astros appear to be frontrunners to acquire #WhiteSox SP Jose Quintana. Prospects Kyle Tucker & Yulieski Gurriel could be part of the deal. That would be insanity.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 01:37 PM) Yeah, Pirates fans are much more realistic and i wish a few of them were GM's. I read an article yesterday by a Pitt writer that said the Pirates should trade Meadows, Glasnow and Bell for Q. Man do I wish that guy was the Pitt GM.lol. Good call on the Astros fans. They say similar things about Q that the Yankee fans do. Quite humorous. Do you read the s*** that WE type sometimes?

We could technically see Avi Garcia in RF, Willy Garcia in LF, and Leury Garcia in CF at some point. And it would be the saddest OF in White Sox history.

I think its possible they simply like him more than Coats

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 04:43 PM) What you and a lot of people aren't getting tho is that the buyer never sets the market value. We as fans and even the front office of the Sox can put whatever value on Sale/Q we want, but if no team meets that price it's just an imaginary value. Value is set by the buying teams. Boston's offer was exactly what Sale's value was...obviously because that's the deal we took making it the best offer on the table. Not to mention saying that the deal was a top 20 prospect "light" is absolutely ridiculous. Assuming you meant to say the SELLER never sets the market. If so, you are totally right.

I think Meadows is the BPA, so I'd take anything reasonable with him in it, even if the second-best guy was a bit underwhelming. That said, the Yankees system has so much high second-tier depth, that I may prefer a package of several of those guys. For example, anything where Rutherford is the secondary piece is probably a big win, and the same may be true of Kaprielian. If it's possible to get both fot hose guys and neither of them be the headliner, that's the best package. EDIT: I don't think the Cubs or the Rockies are realistic candidates, however, because the Cubs simply don't NEED Quintana (though of course they would certainly be better with him) enough to mortgage a big piece of the farm, and because the Rockies don't EVER do anything that makes any sense, whatsoever.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 03:44 PM) Isn't that where a lot of Quintana's value lies, though? In his contract? What about next year makes you think that these pitchers aren't going to be commanding deals in the realm of 3 times what Quintana makes? I'll be frank, as long as Quintana continues to perform, I am not concerned with market liquidity, because Q is going to stack up as an outstanding asset no matter how developed or diverse the competition. Yes, but the tremendous value in prospects traded can be expressed in dollars as well. At the end of the day, more options means a worse market. Quintana's value also decreases even if he pitches like he did last year, because of a year less control. It isn't that he won't be a good asset next year, but there's no reason to believe that the offers we're getting now aren't the best ones that will ever show up. It's not a certainty, because who knows who else will enter the fray next year, but it is clearly unlikely.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 02:34 PM) Add Giolito and Kopech to the list of pitchers with walk issues. That's what I don't understand why people are down on Glasnow due to his walk rates when we've already been through it with Rodon, going through it now with Fulmer, Giolito had problems in his pro debut and Kopech had problems in the minors. Heck, my concern isn't over Glasnow's walk rates, it more about getting a few solid hitting prospects in any trade for Q. For me, one of Bell or Meadows has to be in the deal with Glasnow. And Giolito and Kopech were available ONLY because those issues represent serious risk. That's the same issue that's made Glasnow available at all. It doesn't mean he isn't valuable, but if correcting control issues was easy, the Pirates wouldn't even be talking about Quintana because they'd be planning on Glasnow being in their rotation instead.