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QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 15, 2015 -> 10:29 AM) Actually I didn't. I said they both strike out a lot. The difference, of course, is that you guys want to ravage the farm system and throw the same horrid outfield defense out there. Frazier's best OBP was .336. Last year it was .309, to accompany his .669 second half OPS. And yet you guys want to trade serious assets for that. How many times do we have to load up with low OBP ballplayers? Sure Chris Carter is high K low OBP. His 25 homers are also FREE. They won't hurt the club long term. Adding Frazier would maul it. Who's the last hitter that improved with the Sox. I'll tell - Eaton and Quentin. Common denominator? YOUNG and we traded equal value for YOUNG players. That's actually worked. So what do the Sox do when an approach works? Dump it in the trashcan and go after "proven veterans" again, an approach that has consistently failed. What exactly would Frazier add? A good bat? Maybe. Could be a mediocre bat if we follow what has happened in the past with these NL sluggers. Defense? Nope. We fixed that with Lawrie. Yes, he's average at best overall but it's stable. (and yes, some want to move him to 2nd to squeeze out the promising Sanchez at 2nd for a proven mediocre player). Does OF defense improve? Nope. Package will likely include Trayce and we're back to the same clowning we had last year. Heck if we do nothing, we're much better defensively than we were last year and if we use the players correctly, we'd have a plus defensive team. That was a big weakness last year. But you can't watch defense on home run derby. You're all over the place here, man. This is some really high-level cherry picking. If Todd Frazier is garbage SOLELY because of his 2015 second-half OPS -- ignoring that he's a career 113 wRC+ hitter who averages north of 3 wins a year INCLUDING his 0.7 fWAR rookie year -- you can't then call Carlos Sanchez a "promising second baseman" in the same post, ignoring that he's a career 60 wRC+ hitter (a CAREER .590 OPS, not random seasons split magic there) who has been below replacement level the entire time he's been in the MLB. Sanchez doesn't even provide more defensive value. I'm not saying Sanchez will never be decent, but he is NOT the kind of guy you alter plans for.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 15, 2015 -> 10:07 AM) Melky and his .710 Ops = 7 hole hitter As for Frazier, if rents, low OBP and high K acquaint ion philosophy repeatedly fails, keep doing it until it work. Again, this is all predicated on Melky regressing toward his career averages.

Rose made his decisions and must now face the consequences. I think Manfred was spot on regarding him working in baseball -- the guy is simply too much of a threat to the integrity of a game where competitive balance and fairness are paramount. The Hall of Fame discussion, though, is more about "penance" to me. The more I think about it, the more I'm softening -- he has been and will always carry the shame of being banned from the game for his proclivities (he'll be remembered for it long after he dies) regardless of his induction into the HOF. I don't see a point in pretending his hitting was somehow tainted and unworthy of enshrinement. His playing career belongs in the HOF; he absolutely still deserves to be banned from baseball and should continue to be ashamed.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 15, 2015 -> 09:33 AM) You're right. Sanchez batting in the 2 hole is really more wishful thinking, on my part. It is where he as had his best success in the Minors, and if he matures into a decent MLB hitter, that is probably the best place in the lineup for him to hit. However, as you point out, it's too early to project that future success. Therefore, let's readdress the focus on finding that prototypical 2 hole hitter, who does not appear to be on the current Sox Roster. Yeah, that's why I think I would have been cool with breaking the bank for Heyward. Aside from having two lefties at 1 and 2, I would have been very comfortable watching him in that slot for the next several years.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2015 -> 09:37 AM) Eaton is great leading off. His steals aren't great but he gets on base and was according to Bill James, the White Sox best baserunner in 2015. There is no reason to move him. I hope they try Melky back at the 2 spot. He supposedly was perfect for it until he couldn't buy a hit for a couple of months. This is what I think. Of all the guys on our roster, Melky fits there best, he just simply has to have a better year.

Post-steroid era aging curves are different, guys. Players are peaking much sooner. Also, not every guy is the same. Upton's age is an advantage because it doesn't seem likely to be affected by age-related decline soon, but we need to stop pretending he's a lock to improve the next few years just because he isn't 30 yet.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 15, 2015 -> 07:34 AM) I just looked at Fangraphs' 2016 team projections and they have the Sox at 2nd in the division right now at 32.7 WAR, 5.2 WAR behind the Indians, and that's with a decent amount of regression from Abreu, Eaton, and Quintana. Picking up Upton and Frazier would put them at first in the ALC in projected WAR. However, it looks like once again the projection system undervalues the Royals, as they're dead last in the AL in projected WAR. http://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=Team They also lost Cueto, Gordon, and Rios, who were probably projected for ~10 WAR as a group.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 14, 2015 -> 08:42 PM) If the Sox don't acquire a SS, I'd be more comfortable trying Sanchez in the 2 hole, than Saladino. I like Tyler, but I don't think that he profiles well at that spot in the lineup. That is where Sanchez has regularly hit, and where he has had his best success. However, he would have to improve significantly, over his Big League performance. last year. Putting our worst hitter in the 2 hole is such an unnecessary disadvantage. Why give that guy so many at bats? Why sandwich an automatic out between all of our run producers? You were onto something with the OBP -- that's really the most important skill for a 1 or 2 guy.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Dec 14, 2015 -> 09:34 AM) Can he be had for 6/$100 (I've heard his market is lower than expected), would that be an overpay, and is it something the White Sox would be willing to do? If he could be had at 6/$100, I'd be all over it. I think it's going to be more like 7/$160m or something.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 10, 2015 -> 01:20 PM) Todd Frazier certainly fits the mold of guys the Sox go after and then completely falls apart. The low contact guys just crush us. I can't help but feel the same way. I don't think I have a good reason, but Frazier just seems like a guy who is really useful because he's good at a ton of things, but he's just BARELY good at them individually, so he just feels like a tiny slip in a skill or two would be make a huge difference.

Cespedes is a lot like Samardzija in that (1) he's going into his age 31 season, (2) he's a 2015 free agent, and (3) his career is made up of a bunch of slightly above-average seasons and one monster year. Cespedes is UNLIKE Samardzija in that the career year came in 2015 instead of 2014. I don't want to pay for that career year. The biggest differences in Cespedes' 2014 and 2015 were a 30-point difference in BABIP and a 9% (!) difference in HR/FB%, both of which are among the least reliable year-to-year metrics for hitters. Walk rates, K-rates, swing rates, and other peripherals were about the same. I think Cespedes is a 3-win corner outfielder who just passed age 30. I don't want to pay him like he's a 6-win outfielder without a draft pick attached.

I'll always think Scott Linebrink, deserved or not.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 10, 2015 -> 04:43 PM) Funny, I started doing some research after I posted that and found this really interesting article on fangraphs as well. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/are-we-unde...he-slugger-now/ Your article did make a good bit of sense though as far as the CF/RF thing goes, although in my opinion I'd say they are assuming kind of a lot with some of their #'s. Kinda shocking to me that we are still using data that is a decade+ old to evaluate current players though. Like I said, a like of the sabr stuff still goes over my head, but I don't think it takes a mathematician to figure out that the game has changed pretty drastically since the early 00's. Maybe I'm confused -- what does that have to do with overvaluing the defensive contributions of a RF?

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 10, 2015 -> 03:26 PM) So much emphasis on defense...for a RF'er? If I'm responsible for paying an OF'er that isn't a huge run producer (Heyward isn't) he damn well better be 1 of the best defensive CF'ers in the game. I just don't see how a RF has that much impact on the game with his defense honestly. Maybe it's a crude/out dated way of looking at the game, but I just think defensive metrics have gone way out of control. Especially when we are talking about non premium defensive positions. And I am aware that Heyward is more than capable of playing CF, but there just isn't a large enough sample size of him doing it especially well for the kind of investment he's going to get in my opinion. There's been some talk/research over the last year or so about this -- there appears to be substantial evidence that the impact of a plus CF vs a plus corner OF is quite overrated. Essentially, when you control for catchability, zone overlap, and the actual difference between the high end defenders and low end ones, the CF doesn't receive nearly as many extra chances as people assume. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/does-outfie...ctually-matter/

He makes more sense to the Cards then he does to the Cubs. I think the Cards or a mystery team get him.

Older article that I thought was really interesting: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/brett-lawri...ng-balls-twice/

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/brett-lawri...ves-to-chicago/ Read More: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/brett-lawri...ves-to-chicago/

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 10, 2015 -> 10:37 AM) Frazier is not worth Anderson or Fulmer. Or Adams IMO. Two years of a 4-win third baseman at arbitration prices is unquestionably worth Adams, and I think Anderson/Fulmer are reasonable asks as well. I'm not saying I want the deal to happen, but that's what it costs.

Corbin > Miller

Good move. It's a gamble on Lawrie's upside, but if he rebounds it's a game-changer. We'll draft 10 more reliever prospects next June.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 9, 2015 -> 02:53 PM) Houston would certainly be interested. Absolutely, but I don't think they're likely to offer a Stewart/Dombrowski package.

In all honesty, if that kind of overpay package still exists for Quintana, it probably only exists from the Red Sox. They have the ammo and a GM who has a history of selling prospects for dudes he likes.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 9, 2015 -> 02:05 PM) This is a good point. Just because one GM is stupid enough to do a deal that some executives are calling the "worst trade they've ever seen", doesn't mean that other GMs are now equally as dumb. That being said, Quintana is a lot more valuable than Miller, so a proposal like that for Q is not at all outrageous like it was for Miller. I don't want to trade Quintana at all, and I would have been totally happy if we traded Quintana for the Miller package.

We can't get a Miller-like haul for Quintana now -- only Dave Stewart would make that deal, and Dave Stewart doesn't have enough good prospects now.

Is the "two minor league relievers" rumor busted?