Eminor3rd

Middlebrooks was the only player in the entire league I wanted less than Avisail Garcia when we traded Peavy.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 04:47 PM) Out of Upton and Cespedes, I think Upton would sign an extension of the two. No chance at all that either signs an extension before free agency.

QUOTE (Mbs1969 @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 02:19 PM) We are sellers! "Sox become buyers; acquire Sellers"

Maybe it's just that he's a terrible player.

I'd take the gamble if it came practically free (Single A live arm + absorb contract), but I'd not give up any of our already scarce minor league talent.

It's just fun to be back in it. Wish we were in a position to actually add, though.

I f***ing hate Carlos Gomez. But I've still got a pipe dream where we send Avisail Garcia as a significant part of the package to get him.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jul 24, 2015 -> 06:46 AM) Q is headed South IMO. Just look at his record. He is a mediocre big league starter, which is why he won't get much in a trade. lol

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 24, 2015 -> 09:38 AM) Here are some packages that I think could happen. Toronto gets: SP Jeff Samardzija and RP Zach Putnam White Sox get:SP Sean Reid-Foley, RP Miguel Castro, OF Anthony Alford Yankees get: SP Jeff Samardzija White Sox get: SS Jorge Mateo, C Gary Sanchez Giants get: SP Jeff Samardzija White Sox get: SS Christian Arroyo, SP Miguel Santos, SS Kelvin Beltre Pirates get: SP Jeff Samardzija White Sox get: OF Austin Meadows, SS Alen Hanson Dodgers get: SP Jeff Samardzija and RP Zach Putnam White Sox get: OF Alex Verdugo, SP Zach Lee, C Austin Barnes Those are all too much. I'm not trying to be a jerk but we're just not going to get as much back for him as you're suggesting.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 11:37 AM) Catcher around #10 in the Astros system is still better than a comp pick. QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 11:37 AM) That's certainly not nothing. Jacob Nottingham is a pretty good prospect. Yeah, I exaggerated a bit. But still -- we shouldn't be expecting a household name.

ADA isn't garbage. He just isn't especially good, either. Teams like the Orioles and Athletics have been surprising pundits over the past several years simply by making sure every position has AT LEAST an ADA instead of some complete meltdown player. Meanwhile, teams like the Brewers and Rockies continually disappoint despite having several elite players because they tolerate using the corpse of Alex Gonzalez as a first baseman. Obviously the Sox believed in Avi, even if I disagree. It was an upside play that hasn't panned out. If you give them the benefit of the doubt in assuming Avi was a good prospect, the move was entirely defensible -- but it was never some obvious slam dunk decision and this example is one that illustrates why.

So Kazmir brought essentially nothing back. Everyone temper your expectations for Samardzija.

Fans undervalue players who are not awesome, but not black holes. We could call it the ADA Effect if we wanted.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 09:05 AM) I assume most of you have seen this article today: http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/137...10400-819207683 Anyone have strong thoughts on these players? 1. Dodgers -- he suggests Alex Guerrero, which suggests he doesn't know about Guerrero's opt out that essentially makes him a rental for us and therefore a bad option. More evidence that Rogers knows less about baseball players than our message board posters do. Schebler or Barnes make a ton of sense, though. Especially Barnes. 2. Giants -- Christian Arroyo is probably a really realistic return, actually. 2013 first rounder who usually appears toward the back of the top ten Giants prospects but has had some helium this year. Might be a SS, might be a 2B 3. Blue Jays -- While I agree that the Sox should prefer positional prospects to pitching prospects at this point, I think it's a little ridiculous to suggest that there won't be a fit simply because that Sox won't want any pitching prospects. If the Jay offer the highest grade talent, they should get something done. 4. Yankees -- I didn't get to see Jagielo myself (he was here the year before I started working for Staten Island), but while he seems like the perfect fit for us on paper, the up and down nature of his value has me worried that he's another guy who is notable mostly jsut because he's a Yankees prospect. I've read a lot of mixed stuff on him. 5. Astros -- Tony Kemp would be a great get in terms of value. I actually think it's probably a little rich. Stassi would be good for us too, but I'm pretty sure the Astros see him as their catcher going forward. Colin Moran is extremely polarizing, with enough people thinking he's absolute garbage that I'd be wary of him as a centerpiece. Domingo Santana is a good prospect and probably a realistic centerpiece even if I hope we can do just a touch better.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 22, 2015 -> 02:43 PM) Does it really matter? Soto blows as does Tyler. Both are good enough to contribute a bit and hit a homer now and then. It's not like Soto is good; he's OK. And believe it or not Tyler is OK. Why does everyone keep saying this? What are you people seeing?

He gotsta go. Cool article, Brian

QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 22, 2015 -> 09:46 AM) unless the sox deals with the idea that saladino, mj, or sanchez will take over, a ss in the fa market is going to cost more in money and yrs..... with Aelxei the sox know they still have hm for 1 more yr and 1 more yr for the continue development of anderson. Exactly -- I'm not advocating extending Alexei or anything, I just don't see a better option for 2016.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jul 22, 2015 -> 09:33 AM) $9M is never going to make much of a difference so that's kind of an unfair question, but just because you're more than nine million dollars away from competing doesn't mean it can't be spent wisely. Why not give it to Juan Uribe? At his age I can't see it costing much more - if any - than that, even though he's still posting good numbers. You get a player who can take most of the games at third and, if pushed, can probably still play around the diamond. He'll leave room for whatever youth we might have in mind. I know people are probably wary of bringing in journeymen because of how it's gone with Bonifacio, but for every 2015 Bonifacio there's a 2014 Bonifacio. A lot depends on the direction the team wants to go and if it's really locked into this 3-year plan that Kenny just invented. At this point, is Juan Uribe less of an age-related risk than Alexei Ramirez? And if $9m doesn't make much of a difference, why can't we have both? If I thought what we're seeing from Alexei was his true-talent now, I wouldn't argue to keep him. But I'm also not saying that he's going to get back to his prime numbers. But there are a confluence of factors here: 1) There is evidence that suggests that he will produce MORE going forward than he has this year. 2) There is NOT evidence to suggest that our internal replacement candidates will produce more than Alexei going forward. 3) $9m is still a relative pittance to pay for a decent veteran stopgap SS 4) The $9m spent doesn't appear likely to preclude us from making any of the other potential veteran stopgap signings (like Uribe) that look likely based on the FA class. Now, if $9m turns out to be the difference between getting Weiters or not, this calculus may change. But I'm guessing that a lot of your will agree with me that Weiters at Boras rates in a weak positional FA class may be way too big of a risk anyway. I wanted to trade Alexei over the offseason because (a) he was at peak value, (b) I thought Leury Garcia or Carlos Sanchez could fill the gap reasonably well, and © I thought the team was another year away from starting to make a run at the WC. Now, 8 months later, ALL of that has changed. Alexei's value has never been lower, Sanchez/Garcia have failed to produce, and RH's plan is clearly to compete immediately. Based on that plan, I just don't think we have a better option than giving Alexei a chance to bounce back.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 09:52 PM) Last offseason, I was firmly of the view that Brian Anderson espouses here -- you can't trade Alexei, because it opens up a NEW hole that you then have to fill. Fill the holes you have -- Alexei isn't one of them. Now, I'm not so sure. If you look at his numbers over the last 4 years -- http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ramiral03.shtml -- what it looks like is a guy on a pretty steady decline with one good year thrown in -- 2014. Take out 2014, and you have HRs going from 15, to 9, to 6, to 3 this year. So, I think the Sox need to re-calibrate the expectation of keeping Ramirez, and use the money he was slotted to make somewhere else. And if you aren't going to tender him in the offseason, there's no reason to keep him now. Trade him for whatever you can get. Ok, but all of that begs the following questions: - Where do you put that $9m that will make a difference? - Who plays SS that is likely to produce more? - What do you gain by selling now (at the lowest possible value) versus later (at potentially higher value)?

They're doing their best to blow up Quintana, but it just isn't catching on: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-white-s...-than-the-mets/ (I usually quote the post in addition to the link, but this one has so many charts that it just isn't worth it)

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 01:39 PM) He's also a better bet to be much worse than Flowers. I think you're missing my point, though -- there's a chance he'll be good. There's (virtually) no chance Flowers will be good. So if you can only replace one, you're better off with a decent player and a bad guy with upside than you are with a decent player and a bad guy with no upside.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 02:12 PM) He's labour league average offensively. Bigger problems all over the diamond He's not, though. 73 wRC+ is awful and very much below league-average, and his defense (at least to the extent we can measure it) doesn;t make up the difference. He's a replacement-level player. He's the definition of a hole in the lineup.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 12:59 PM) I would argue the upside of Garcia, but it depends on how you view his defensive upside. If you don't think it is significant, then it would take massive offensive upside to make him very valuable. I think 3B and Corner outfield are massive holes. I'd also argue shortstop is as well, but again, shortstop is a bit of a wasteland (although not to the same extent as catcher). Sure if you have someone above average their, it is a major win, but we fail so significantly in the corner outfield and at 3B. I won't discuss 2B because I think we have internal options. You won't find me arguing much to defend Garcia -- I'm just saying he's a better bet to be productive than Flowers is.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 12:40 PM) He is a "replacement level player". He's been just about as valuable at his position this year as Adam Eaton. If we had a strong team around him, that'd be ok. A team can live with 1-2 replacement level players in their lineup if they're strong elsewhere. OTOH, we're weak everywhere. Our OF is easily the worst in baseball. 3b, 2b, SS all are terrible. Flowers being a replacement level player is therefore a problem, but it's not even as big of a problem as say, Avi Garcia is. If we could find a major upgrade at catcher, fine go ahead. But it's not our biggest issue. If we upgraded catcher solidly and brought the IF up to tolerable with Micah, Saladino, Sanchez, and maybe a FA signing, we'd still have major issues in the OF and elsewhere in the lineup. The difference between Flowers and our OFs is that all of our OFs have upside. So while a 2-win upgrade would feel like a 2-win upgrade anywhere, you're far, far less likely to get it out of Flowers than you are out of Eaton or even Garcia. Obviously I've convinced myself Alexei is much more likely to turn up for 2-wins as well. At 2B, we at least have a couple defenders and several prospects who could break out. Catcher is a wasteland. i agree that 3B is just as big a problem, maybe moreso. But I don't think we should be ready to tolerate replacement-level at any point on the diamond. Even if it means picking up some zombie veteran who can give us 1 WAR for a few million bucks.

Where are we getting the impression that Tyler Flowers is decent?