Eminor3rd

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 01:49 PM) Can I undo the mistakes that were done last offseason? Because otherwise I have to do this with no money. Since I can't do that and give this roster a chance to actually grow, clear out the garbage. Anyone who can be moved from this roster, I'm ok moving. Everyone other than Rodon. I mean that. Just start over. We're going to lose for several years anyway, we may as well do so while being cheap and while building up something that can compete in the future. We haven't even finished this LAST "start-over!" At some point, you have got to stay the course. Balta, it hasn't even been a HALF of a season yet. Melky Cabrera is not a 54 wRC+ hitter. Adam Eaton is not a 77 wRC+ hitter. Jeff Samardzija is not a 4.68 ERA pitcher. You haven't even given this roster a HALF SEASON and you're ready to clean the entire organization out.

I'm not sure we have a better option.

I've enjoyed it because he's actually acting like the PBP guy. He obviously doesn't know a ton about baseball, but the cadence of the broadcast feels much more natural. If nothing else, it's finally clicked with my why so many color guys have had trouble pairing with Hawk: because Hawk does both jobs himself, and the color guy has to figure out where to fit in awkwardly instead of being cued like the PBP normally does.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 06:07 AM) The 2013 team was more Rick Hahn's than it wasn't. It wasn't like he came from another organization to inherit that mess. As Asst. General Manager, he had influence on every single individual comprising the roster that year. He also had an entire offseason beforehand to make changes to the roster, and he didn't, really, other than adding Keppinger. So I'd say he is as much to blame for that horrific '13 season as his predecessor. It seems a little far fetched to me to suggest that from 2002-2012, when Kenny was GM and Hahn was Asst. GM, that somehow Kenny was solely responsible for baseball decisions made to the team during that timeframe, and that subsequent to 2012, it has all just been "The Rick Hahn Show". I think Kenny's periodic interviews suggest rather strongly that he is still very influential on any baseball decisions made. So as far as I can tell, since 2002, the White Sox have essentially been run by the trio of Reinsdorf, Williams & Hahn, with only a change in titles for the latter two a few years ago, while maintaining a consensus view between the three in terms of strategy and decisions made throughout these past 13 years. Whichever name you want to assign to each era is fine, but there was a clear strategic shift that occurred beginning with the trade deadline in 2013, and the team is associating that with Rick Hahn's move to the primary executive role for day-to-day operations. I have no doubt that they're all involved, but the Sox have NOT conducted themselves the same way the past couple years. The most recent thread of action is the one we should be judging when considering the effect of Sox leadership currently.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 2, 2015 -> 06:57 PM) So fine, you think Rick Hahn did a great job. I'm totally ok with that, because if this team keeps this BS up and you think RH did a fine job, then you are indicting the manager and coaching staff and making the case for me for why they're the ones who need to go. I don't think we know that. I think it's definitely PLAUSIBLE that the coaching staff is not putting the players in a position to win, but I don't think any of us have any evidence to suggest it's the case. The players seem to like the coaches, reporters seem to think that the coaches are putting in a lot of effort, the reporters are indicating that the team is practicing plenty. Beyond that, what can we evaluate as fans? Why was Abreu awesome under these coaches last year, but just solid now? Why were Sale and Quintana the same way? How did our "legendary" pitching coaches turn Samardzija into crap when they turned crap into gold every year previous? And that's the issue. This board in general is quick to pin it on the coaches because they want to pin it on someone, but we have nothing to suggest that firing the coaches would actually fix the problem. It MIGHT, but Occam's Razor finds a different explanation that is simpler and more likely: the players are failing.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 2, 2015 -> 06:07 PM) If you want to play this game...we've increased our winning percentage by 0.18% this year and spent $30 million more than last year's payroll. Getting to .500 at this pace will require a payroll of $175 million. 1. Do you blame RH for Melky Cabrera's 52 wRC+? 2. Do you think Melky Cabrera will end the year with a 52 wRC+? The season isn't even halfway over. Nearly EVERY player has underperformed. What was RH going to do this offseason that was going to overcome Sale/Abreu/Quintana/Eaton underperforming? Do you honestly think that he should have seen what has happened so far coming from Samardzija and Cabrera? You can say the defense was never going to be good enough, but let's see what the team looks like when it actually IS doing what it's supposed to do before we conclude that it never had a prayer. THe GM can only do so much. RH went out and got a player who can hit, Melky Cabrera is the one that has to actually HIT. I'm going to ignore the payroll/winning percentage thing because you KNOW that's a ridiculous strawman. QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jun 2, 2015 -> 06:18 PM) Actually, that's not true. The 63 wins in '13 was a decrease from '12, when in his first offseason as GM after '12 his biggest addition/upgrade to the team was Jeff Keppinger. With nowhere really to go but up, yes, he did increase the winning % last year by getting the team up to a whopping 73 wins. And now we are trending slightly better than that so far this year, but we're in last place, so that uptick really doesn't mean a whole lot. So given Hahn has been a major part of the brain trust (such as it is) with Reinsdorf & Kenny over the past 13 years that has garnered all of two playoff appearances, I'm going to need to see a whole lot more than these slight upticks to have confidence he is the right guy to get us out of the baseball gutter. 2013 was NOT RH's team. It was holdover from the KW show. RH was "on the clock" beginning with the Peavy trade. That was his clean slate. Also, Thad, it's June 2nd. Let's wait until at LEAST September before we put a wrap on this season.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jun 2, 2015 -> 05:57 PM) 63 wins in '13. 73 wins last year. A last place team a third of the way through this season. I'm not sure how much more "bearable" I can take! It's worth noting that our winning percentage is actually currently better than last year's and also that every player has sucked and also that it's June 2nd. And we're THREE GAMES under .500. And we want to fire the GM. WHo has increased our winning percentage every season so far.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 2, 2015 -> 05:33 PM) May I please Avatar this? I certainly don't mind, but I didn't actually draw it -- I just googled "mob with pitchforks" and photoshopped (or Paint.NET'd) the two things together.

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jun 2, 2015 -> 03:18 PM) I am not a KW fan — frankly, I think he is a pompous and past his shelf life with this organization — but the scapegoating of him does get ridiculous. If it's not RV, it's KW or JR or DC or freaking Chris Rongey or something. I made a new logo:

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Jun 2, 2015 -> 02:21 PM) Kenny is rick's boss. He sure an answer questions related to the makeup of the team. I love how everyone is so anti Kenny, but think nothing of theo epstien having Jed hoyer as GM in name only. This board just needs a scapegoat SO badly. Reality be damned.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 2, 2015 -> 01:01 PM) Then spending $100 million of additional funds on this roster with veterans over 30 who you expect to gradually get worse and more likely to be injured each year and trading for a major addition with 1 year on his contract was absolutely foolhardy. If your team isn't ready to compete right now, why on Earth are you spending money on free agents? Why on Earth are you trading players for a guy who won't be here in a year? Because the balls-out/rebuild model is obsolete. Practically every team in baseball is moving to one where they shoot for 85 wins every year now because it makes sense under the current post-season structure.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 2, 2015 -> 12:32 PM) When your staff is mailing it in, not doing what you expect them to do. These guys watch them every day. We don't. People just assume Robin shows up, gets dressed and sits there bored to tears waiting for the game to end so he can go home. Articles, like this one, speak of the entire staff's work ethic. Stone was talking about the White Sox staff the other day saying they are there to help almost all day long. They come early, stay late, give them extra BP, extra fielding, additional side sessions for pitchers if requested. People love to see other people get fired. That's one reason Trump's show is still on the air. From the bits and pieces we get at the full story, not the little you see on TV and assume, the coaching staff and manager is the least of the White Sox problems. This

QUOTE (Special K @ Jun 2, 2015 -> 11:58 AM) Under what scenario do you ever consider changing the manager and his staff? When you have reason to believe that the staff is failing at their job. Unfortunately, we fans may never have that information, but the front office see what we cannot.

Time to slow these f***ers down. I like this pitching matchup for a game 1 win.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Jun 2, 2015 -> 08:13 AM) I think Lucroy is being way overrated. There aren't many players that are going to pull 4 of the top 7 or 8 players from a team's farm system, no matter how bad the system is, and Lucroy is not one of those players. Justin Upton only pulled 2 of SD's top 10(#3 and #7) and 3(#14) of their top 20 plus an outside the top 20 Mallex Smith. It's all about affordable team control remaining. Upton was a one-year rental at $13m, Lucroy comes with 2.5 seasons at a total cost of less than $10m for the duration. That's why he'll be more valuable if he moves.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 1, 2015 -> 01:46 PM) Montas, Hawkins and Davidson would probably be the highest I'd go/still be comfortable giving. Maybe throw in Sanburn or another reliever type arm. I just want to hold onto Danish, Anderson and Adams as badly as possible. That won't be nearly enough to get it done, but it could be a blessing in disguise. As good as Lucroy is (and I'm a big fan), he'll be a 30 year old catcher next year who has started to catch the injury bug. Seems like a good candidate to start being worse. Good contract, though.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 1, 2015 -> 11:31 AM) Schizotalk.com If the team finishes 81-81, it'll be the perfect fan identity crisis experiment.

Day after win: "Midseason Additions" bumped. Day after loss: "Who Can the Sox Sell" bumped.

I wonder if he'd take a deal based on the Stanton extension if we offered it right now. Can't let him get to free agency.

Let's make this a winning streak! vs. O/U -- Number of zombie bat boys spawned in the underworld using the bones of previous races and blood from Jose Quintana's earlobes, calves, tongue, and penis: 16.5

Samardzija will have value, but nowhere near the amount of value to get anything in the neighborhood of Addison Russell. Even if he rebounds, he's a pending free agent now, and he's the third best option on the market.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ May 29, 2015 -> 02:30 PM) That is a Orwellian double speak SouthSider2k. Thibs was the head of his department including on how minutes were distributed. Then he wasn't, once GarPax got pissed and hired Jen. So, you're the boss, until you're not. There's no chain of command, well there is, but it's a "circle" at the top with JR, Hahn and KW. He runs the Bulls the same way. He needs to stop meddling. That sounds like the exact opposite of the passage you quoted about the Bulls.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ May 29, 2015 -> 01:58 PM) here's a very candid look into how a JR FO works, from the statement on Thibs: It's a joke, you can't run franchises like this. GarPax is a laughingstock around the NBA despite many good draft picks, because of how obviously strained the relationship between Gar and Paxson is. Powerful men don't like to form consensus with "interdepartmental input". This isn't Google or Facebook, it's a sports franchise. One guy should be making the final call, yes he can take input from those below him but it's a tyranny of one, not a "consensus of information" or whatever mumble jumble JR uses. That sounds like a model for how all big organizations should run. If you want to see what happens when the top dog in the organization steamrolls the managers he's hired instead of delegating and letting them handle their areas of expertise, look at the Marlins. How many times have you heard the following cliche out of the mouth of some billionaire: "I surround myself with smart people and let them work."

How do you guys have so much insight into how well the White Sox internal chain of command works? Are you all ex-employees or something?

QUOTE (LDF @ May 29, 2015 -> 10:27 AM) not when there is no, and i mean no certified replacement to take over that position. i am talking about the defense. again i will use this word. the org ASSUME that the org had a replacement for other positions and found out, that was not the case. making a trade is ok, when the org knows that it was protected, but when that is not the case, how many games would be lost for that error in misjudgement. I was hard on the "trade Alexei" train for a while. At one point I think I was the conductor, actually, because I thought Sanchez or Leury Garcia could handle it and I wanted to see if their bats would grow with regular PT. But after they made the Samardzija trade, it didn't make sense to move Alexei anymore, so I can't grumble there.