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QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 11:39 AM) Kemp at 77M has a chance to be a legit value and the Padres needed to make a splash. I really don't quite grasp what the Dodgers are doing. I think they are no better today than they were at the end of last year, possibly slightly worse. And on top of that, while getting rid of Kemp's contract, they also have put themselves in a position where they have a couple guys that will be walking a year / getting big contract (Rollins / Kendrick). Yes, Dodgers have guys in place but I think the Angels did best in that 3 team trade. Getting a young cost controlled power arm that is near to big league ready is a major coup for a club like the Angels. Yes, Kendrick was good but with the Angels payroll that move was fantastic, imo. I will say I think Grandal is a pretty darn good player. I also am not a big buyer of the "pitch" frame concept. I think there are significant flaws in the early statistics behind it but I do agree it is an important concept but IIRC, there is a lot of variability depending on the pitch frame / defensive catching metrics that you look at. Idk, I'd say the Dodgers are look roughly as good as last year, despite losing Hanley, and they've done it without trading ANY significant prospects and also cutting significant payroll. What they've lost in offense they've gained back in defense. RE: framing. I think the issue is that Baseball Prospectus has WAY overvalued the level of contribution that framing has, but I don't think there's much, if any, criticism in how they collect and analyze the data. In other words, BP overrates the impact, but they give us a good list of who is best and who is worst.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 11:33 AM) Wow. Nice move for Padres. $32M cash and I think they got maximum value for Grandal. I don't like what the Dodgers were doing. I think the exact opposite. Kemp belongs somewhere that he can DH. Grandal actually graded out as one of the best framers in the league last year, Wieland is good but hasn't been able to stay healthy. Given the logjam the Dodgers had in the OF and the pressure they are assumed to be under to reduce payroll, clearing $7m and improving your C situation AND adding quality pitching depth AND some other prospect seems like a coup. The Padres spent $77m to maybe not get much better, especially if Kemp's defense doesn't improve.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 10:54 AM) Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 Cespedes has release clause at end of contract so can't be made qualifying offer after '15 season as fr agt, Porcello can receive QO So, Detroit doesn't have the opportunity to get a draft pick if Cespedes signs elsewhere after 2015. Which is why a couple prospects are coming over with him.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 10:39 AM) I keep hearing a Gerrado Parra signing suggestions on here. Parra is in his 3rd year of arbitration and is still owned by the Brewers. Sure, we could trade for him, but Parra is NOT a free agent. What am I missing? As for Ichiro, as others have said, if he is coming in to be the 4th outfielder and pinch hitter/runner, great. If it is to be the everyday LF, I think we can do much better. It is not the worst idea ever, but I think Rick has bigger plans for LF. Oh, I thought Parra was non-tendered.

QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 11:21 PM) Dude hit .284 last year Which is like saying that DV hit 21 homers last year. It's the only way you can possibly make an argument that either player contributed anything on offense. And it is incomplete and misleading. He put up an 88 wRC+ and was a -5 defender by UZR for the first time in a while. Ichiro is a legend, but at this stage in his career, I'd MUCH rather we try to sign Gerrardo Parra for similar money.

Sounds like a good deal for both sides. Cespedes replaces Rajai Davis, Porcello replaces Workman or Ranaudo. Both players with one year of control.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 09:09 AM) What were you saying about Freidman?? Yeah, I don't get the Kendrick move. I mean, Kendrick is good, but I thought the whole point of this was to open a slot for Guerrero/Arreubarrena with a sprinkling of Darwin Barney and newly acquired Enrique Hernandez.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 09:52 PM) Ortiz's first 5 years yielded a 1.3 OWAR, Dayan's is 2.3. Ortiz did take off in year 6 though. Ortiz's breakout is pretty consistently attributed to moving out of Minnesota, where they were forcing him into an "opposite field approach." Boston just let him slug, and slug he has since done. I don't think there's any reason to believe that Viciedo is in a similar situation.

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 12:12 AM) Per Ken Rosenthal, the Dodgers are flipping Andrew Heaney to the Angels. Lol. ...For Howie Hendrick. Wait... what? Why the

The best way to look at this deal, IMO, is that we can have "nice things" because of all the awesome contracts we have on our core pieces. Money is only ever an issue if it stops you from doing something else, and this doesn't even really cover what Sale SHOULD be paid. So this is Hahn's foresight giving him the bonus resources to shore up a big need in a really big way.

The Marlins just got ROBBED. This is just a reminder not to complete a trade with Andrew Friedman. He is ruthless.

It feels weird to think, but I'd want Ackley just to take Viciedo's place in LF. Neither of them are going to hit, but at least Ackley can catch. I also don't see why dumping Viciedo for Ackley precludes us from acquiring a better solution inf LF. It's not like Viciedo is an asset we could put toward a different type of trade. If we swapped those two, we'd immediately improve our defense, and, at worst, find a pretty effective and versatile utility guy for the bench. It's a net gain across the board, if not substantially. You don't have to project improvement to gain in this case.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 03:28 PM) DeShilelds Jr sounds really intriguing. I could 100% see him as a guy the White Sox target. I BELIEVE I've read he's like a 20 makeup guy that scouts think will never reach his ceiling. Possibly why he's unprotected.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 03:27 PM) In those 6.1 innings Noesi gave up an insane amount of runs. His ERA was lime 40 if I remember correctly. He gave up 10 earned runs in 6.1 innings, which I think works out to 14.75. Also, why does he get a free pass on those innings? I'm all about accepting that he changed, but what changed?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 02:40 PM) I can't believe people wrote this post without actually considering how Noesi's season went. Yes his ERA and FIP were poor, but somehow everyone has forgotten that: 1. His ERA was 0.35 runs lower if all you do is focus on the time he was with the White Sox Which still leaves him with a bad ERA, which looks even worse when you consider it was 0.4 runs lower than his FIP over the same period. The time he spent NOT on the Sox last was year was 6.1 innings. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 02:40 PM) 2. Focusing on the time he was with the white sox alone isn't smart either, in his first 4 starts with the White Sox they still needed to stretch his arm out so they left him out to die in the 6th inning several times while exhausted (ERA in those starts; 5.35) This is a possible effect, but extremely speculative. Do we have evidence he was exhausted? Also, 5.35 isn't drastically worse than 4.75 over the course of 4 starts. I guess what I'm saying is I'd be more hopeful for his "continued progress" if someone could make an argument that something actually changed. Did he gain velocity or add a new pitch? Coop often fixes guys by making mechanical tweaks that improve command, yet he still walks too many dudes and gives up too many homers, which doesn't suggest improved command. He doesn't have any flukey homer or LOB or xFIP numbers to show that he maybe pitched better than his results would indicate.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 12:51 PM) 10. PAGES. TEN Do we still have Zach Stewart? Maybe they'll take Zach Stewart.

If you like KC going forward, you have to buy into Hosmer and Moustakas' second halves being "breakouts" rather than "hot streaks." Losing Butler shouldn't impact them much, because they didn't REALLY have his production last year, since he was terrible. You also have to really believe in Danny Duffy. Honestly I don't think we're THAT much worse. They're more balanced, for sure. Our defense is horribad (but not as bad as Cleveland's )

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 02:41 PM) Why is it pointless when it was directed at a post that specifically said Ackley was the perfect fit at 2B for the White Sox? If the White Sox trade for Ackley to be anything more than a utility man/ platoon guy, they really are going after trying to win in 2015 at most, half assed. Because we're not really talking about "targeting him," we're talking about trying to get ANYTHING for Viciedo.

Ackley and Beckham is a pointless comparison. What's relevant is Ackley vs. Viciedo for 2015. They put up almost identical wRC+, but Ackley si a better defender, better baserunner, and left-handed. If Seattle wants to trade that for whatever semblance of upside Viciedo has left, I'd do it. At the worst, we'll have improved our OF defense without sacrificing anything offensively. That said, I wouldn't stop looking hard for a better option in LF.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 02:14 PM) Ryan Vogelsong really isn't a bad option I don't think. We could probably get him on a relatively cheap 1 year deal with an option or something like that. Take out the bad/injury riddled 2013 and between '11, '12 and '14 he's averaged 185 IP and an ERA of around 3.75 (advanced metrics back it up too). 2 weeks ago I would have been against a move like this, but if we really are going all out for this year Vogelsong would bring a lot of stability to the back of the rotation. Of course Danks really clutters things up financially though and getting rid of at least a decent chunk of his salary could open up a lot of options. Take away Danks and our rotation is really cheap relative to other teams that will be competitive in 2014. I'm a little worried that his "advanced" age will lessen his likeliness to bounce back to 2012 form. That said, even his 2014 was a tick better than both of our incumbents. I think he'd be a great depth piece for the competition, but I'm not sure about a multi-year deal. Would he sign a Paulino deal, maybe, with a couple million extra bucks guaranteed?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 12:23 PM) Look at Mark Reynolds, 2012. 2013 the Indians gave him $6 million. He can't field either. Mark Reynolds hit 30+ three times in his career though, and 40+ once. The best thing we have to say about DV is that he managed to scratch 20.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 01:23 PM) @MaineSkin Viciedo was 2nd to only Stanton in oppo fld HRs '14. BABIP .030 blw avg, if he gets FBs up, it's 30+ anywhere Lol, yeah, let's go with that. Line up, teams!

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 12:48 PM) No...one more acceptable than the other given his price and the fact pattern that you are talking about a potential 5th starter. Or at least more acceptable. I think far more pressing concerns are our team defense. The problem in these circumstances is these are guys we have penciled in at 4 and 5. Noesi also did show some signs of progress vs. Danks. The bolded is the point. Clearly, Noesi is a more valuable member of the team because of his salary, but in terms of who is going to take the hill next, neither produces acceptable results. We can't afford for both of these guys to contribute 175+ innings. One of them can be the fifth starter that we skip whenever possible, yes.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 11:53 AM) His ERA was 4.39. But his FIP was around 4.7. In other words, he wasn't that good. As a 5th starter, he's acceptable, but if you want to be a contender, you need to have arms better than him and Danks as your 4 and 5. QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 11:55 AM) No doubt. But that's just it, it should be one of Noesi OR Danks as the #5, with Beck/Recchia/Carroll/whomever as 6-8 in Charlotte. Need that 4th guy for a year at least. Yes, this is what I mean

My point, overall, is that you can't have both of these guys in your rotation and expect it to turn out well. If you're fishing for upside, that's one thing, but with the "window" jerked up a year now, it's a different story.