Eminor3rd

It was this or a non-tender

QUOTE (sammy esposito @ Aug 21, 2014 -> 03:14 PM) we pay 18 mil for a guy per year who is not worth anything to another team/ even for one months salary, sad. I blame Robin

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 21, 2014 -> 01:53 PM) Then they're really going to be spending a lot more than most expect, because if you start out with that baseline of $45 million, 1) you'd have to not trade Alexei Ramirez or Danks 2) you're subtracting the salaries of Lindstrom, Dunn, DeAza, Beckham and Belisario 3) and probably sitting at 50-50 that Nate Jones and Dayan Viciedo aren't going to be brought back or offered arbitration...Flowers and Noesi will be offered for sure, barring a dramatic change move by Hahn To see an increase, that means there would need to be spending of roughly $42 million of additional/new spending on next year's roster alone. That would give you James Shields, one of the 4-5 closers on the market, and roughly Adam Dunn's salary for another big hitter in the middle of the line-up. Let's say it's James Shields at $20 million, Soriano/Robertson/Janssen/K-Rod/Uehara/Rodney (one of the aforementioned) at $10 million and then let's say Melky Cabrera/Markakis/Rasmus at $10-12 million. That's three big-time free agents, including one of the top five in Shields and another top 10-12 guy in Melky Cabrera. I'll believe it when I see it happen. I don't know why you're so concerned about the payroll. Hahn will add guys he thinks are going to be good value, and will pay what he's comfortable with paying. That might be signing 4 big free agents or just trading for some guys. Trying to get the payroll up to match someone's paradigm of "trying to be competitive" is really dumb, IMO. The payroll will NOT be a good measurement of this team's direction or how successful its offseason was.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Aug 21, 2014 -> 10:10 AM) I think Jones is supposed to be out the majority of next season? Yes x 100 on the approach to DH. Ahh, yeah I think you're right on Jones. So yeah, a lot of pitchers.

This is what I think the "holes" are: CA 1B Jose Abreu 2B Marcus Semien or Micah Johnson SS Alexei Ramirez 3B Conor Gillaspie LF CF Adam Eaton RF Avisail Garcia DH SP Chris Sale SP Jose Quintana SP SP SP John Danks RP Nate Jones RP Jake Petricka RP Zach Putnam RP RP This offseason, we need a catcher, a corner outfielder (or two), and a bunch of pitchers. AAA will fill the middle infield. I'd like to see a rotating DH built from another stating-caliber OF with platoon potential.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 01:54 PM) If Red Sox want Alexei, I'm asking for Boegarts. lol

Hahn: There is a chance a pitcher from the bullpen will pitch in tonight's game.

Jesus

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 10:20 AM) That's all fine and good, but rebuilding and competing on the go requires more immediate results for the Sox fanbase. Everyone knows this. So while the Cubs were in a position to pass on those free agency markets due to timing issues, and put out some tentative "we will fix things with our pitching staff sometime between 18 to 24 months from now" mantras, that's not going to work for the Sox. Hahn never presented that blueprint of waiting from 2011 until 2017 for a World Series-contending team like Epstein and Hoyer have consistently done. Of course, he wasn't in a position to sell the future when the "shorter term" has always been more important to the White Sox as a means of running a business. Sooner or later, his hand is going to be forced. Why is it different for the Sox fanbase? Attendance has been declining for seven years, there's no reason to believe it won't continue. The only way to reverse that trend is to build a successful franchise, and so Hahn needs to build a successful franchise as quickly as possible. Straying from that path will only delay him from the goal. 2012 proved to us that 4 months of competitive baseball is NOT enough to bring the fans back. Flash-in-the-pan signings that hurt the long-term value of the system are hail maries that have not duped Sox fans in the past, and if that was Hahn's plan, he wouldn't have been hired. We all like to point out that Jerry has plenty of money and we all agree that his goal is to make more of it -- I'd argue that the only logical path is to get to profitability the quickest, and that he easily has the means to weather the "investment" in time required to get there. hahn's a smart man who has had a lot of time to come up with a plan that makes sense to him and that was approved by ownership. The best move for him is to sink or swim with his best plan. Guys don't usually get to his station without understanding that.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 10:01 AM) This is by far the most important factor people are ignoring. We need to build around these guys RIGHT NOW, as Sale or Quintana could down at any point in time. Wasting the surplus value these players are currently providing is the dumbest thing we could do. It blows my mind people are so concerned about draft picks and the lack of surplus value free agents will provide. We have $46M in payroll commitments for next year and yet some posters are against spending anything of significance in free agency. Having financial flexibility is great, but it's damn near worthless if you're afraid to spend it. No one is against spending money in FA in general, but many are against spending it simply for the sake of spending it, because that's how you end up painted in a corner. Hahn's plan is much larger than Chris Sale and Jose Abreu and how both fit into a "contention window" -- it's about building a healthy organization that can enjoy sustained success. Panicking and buying marginal upgrades at market rate simply because they were the best available is precisely how we ended up in this "mess" to begin with. I think that, fortunately, KW's willingness to pay out the nose for upgrades without long-term commitments has afforded us the ability to crawl out of the "rock bottom" phase of the rebuild sooner, but that doesn't mean we should forget the big picture in year two and start acting like Jim Hendry all of a sudden.

I think it's a 'tweener, like the Indians this year.

Danks is talented enough to have a few good games in a row, but he is nothing even close to "good." He can't hit at all, and while his defense is definitely good, it's not "elite." I'm not going to argue if they non-tender ADA and move Viciedo to save some money, but even if they do, Danks should be a fallback option. He is not good enough to be a cog on a contender.

Murray Chass is a complete piece of s***. That said, he isn't the only guy who has issues with how Reinsdorf has wielded his political power inside baseball. Personally, I have no idea what happens and what doesn't happen, and I wouldn't presume to judge without hearing both sides of the story. My current boss has been in the industry for decades and told me a couple Reinsdorf stories that painted him as a pretty vindictive guy. Who knows.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 01:29 PM) De Aza defense > Danks bat. There's no reasonable argument over who the better player is. Better per dollar or better fit for the 2015 White Sox, those might be arguments. Personally I don't think either is a part of the plan. This

Bud Norris methinks

QUOTE (ron883 @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 01:55 PM) Are you trolling, or does the hate cloud your mind THAT much that you think Adam Dunn has the ability to destroy an entire team's offense? You need to use more logic and less emotion when you think. Don't you remember his Alex Rios hatred? He was having a 3 fWAR season with us and greg was convinced he was actually hurting the team because he didn't like his "devil-may-care" facial expressions.

QUOTE (Bigsoxhurt35 @ Aug 17, 2014 -> 03:11 PM) Ovah! 59th win. What we have last year 63? Yep

QUOTE (chisoxt @ Aug 17, 2014 -> 03:06 PM) Is it possible to hate every single pitcher in our bull pen?? Yes

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Aug 17, 2014 -> 12:53 PM) [/b] Sorry, E, generally love your insight but must take exception here. For the vast majority of Dunn's time here, the team's culture has been a losing one. Losing cultures need change - more than we've had to this point. I hope the guy gets to a contender and gets to see the playoffs for once in a terrific career. By all accounts he's a great guy. But his clubhouse presence really should not be a consideration, at all. I'm not necessarily taking a side on it (though reading my post, it definitely sounds like I was) -- I have no idea how much clubhouse presence is worth or if Dunn's is overrated or underrated -- I'm just saying that might be what the front office is thinking.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Aug 17, 2014 -> 01:19 PM) Can't the catcher block the plate when he has the ball? No, if he has the ball then he can be in the way, but you can't physically block the base with your body unless it's with the tag. At least that's what I think the rule is.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 17, 2014 -> 01:17 PM) Right call there, pretty dumb by Nieto Exactly. Reyes beat the throw and only missed the plate because of Nieto's leg. He's safe.

That's legit, he should be safe. He stepped where the plate was and Nieto's leg covered it.

Speaks very highly of Dunn as a positive clubhouse presence: This is the type of thing, I think, that might explain why Hahn hasn't just given Dunn away for salary relief. I have no doubt he'd move him for even a marginally interesting prospect, but it very well may be worth the salary to keep him around the clubhouse.

That was so lucky.