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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 8, 2014 -> 10:38 PM) You mean the road to the 14th-18th draft pick in the 1st round....? I'd rather they were 10 games under .500, improved the team with the best trades for prospects at the deadline and all the key players for next season were completely healthy/successful in Abreu, Sale, Quintana, Eaton and Avisail. I'd call it the road to substantial improvement in a single offseason. Or the road to the fringes of what might be a core that's already worth adding free agents to next year.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 8, 2014 -> 08:23 PM) 9 for his last 102 with 49 strikeouts. I don't remember a position player with a streak so bad. Nope, they usually get optioned/DFA'd before it gets that bad.

Who do you want to trade?

I actually feel like we should give those runs back.

VIciedo with inexplicable half-swing at first pitch. Wow. This is some Bush League baseball

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 8, 2014 -> 04:03 PM) I would assume that it's a Donny Lucy shirsey. But you're special.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jul 8, 2014 -> 01:41 PM) When she wears it people will just think that's her last name. Yeah, we assume people think it's her first name, usually.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jul 8, 2014 -> 01:13 PM) Donny Lucy was one of the more fun longshots to root for. I still remember how angry much of SoxTalk was that we didn't draft that other guy, A's player now with the Nats? Why can't I think of his name? Anyway the board wanted him instead, he was there, said Lucy is never going to hit. They were right. But Lucy was a good guy for the pitchers I think. I'm pretty sure I read where the pitchers really liked his game calling and stuff. My girlfriend decided to commit to "being a baseball fan" during one of Lucy's cups of coffee. She decided that he was physically attractive and would be her favorite player, having no idea that she would almost literally never get to see him play. When I told her he retired to become an avocado salesman, it made her like him even better. I bought her a custom (obviously) Donny Lucy shirsey, and she enjoys being literally the only person in the stadium (city? state? planet?) wearing it when we go to games.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 8, 2014 -> 12:13 PM) Maybe for Jake at State Farm. Or he could go join Donny Lucy selling avocados in SoCal: http://www.delreyavocado.com/salesstaff.html

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 8, 2014 -> 11:52 AM) Your last sentence is just crazy IMO. Beckham is average at best. How can you overvalue Beckham like that? Just cause he was a top draft pick doesn't mean anybody values him. I can't imagine him bring much more than a Chris Getz type player cause he is a Chris Getz type player. OK he's a little better than Getz. This trade deadline, the Sox should dump Beckham, Viciedo and that's it (I'm assuming nobody will trade for Dunn). Get what you can for them. Why? Cause there are replacements for both. I'm pretty sure he's talking about packaging Beckham with Quintana.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 8, 2014 -> 10:58 AM) Heyman detailed 60 players that could be available at the deadline. Lots of White Sox as expected. http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-he...go-or-have-gone Heyman mentions that Danks has been pitching well now that he's two years removed from Tommy John surgery. Seriously, how does this guy have a job?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 8, 2014 -> 09:35 AM) I honestly believe, playing 4-5 days per week...that he would put up better numbers and provide more leadership than Flowers does. But maybe that's just me. Yes, it's a SAD state of affairs in terms of catching all around baseball. With Wieters down, Zunino in Seattle and Sal Perez are the only impressive guys out there in the AL. But I don't think an upgrade's out there that won't cost you SOMETHING decent you don't want to give up in return. Even if you're right, you're talking about upgrading from "extra bad" to "bad" on a team that isn't winning anything this year, and the cost is crucial development time for ANY other C that isn't a 34 year old bad pending free agent.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 8, 2014 -> 08:59 AM) I think we should sign him. That way, once he was terrible for a couple months we could stop having people suggest we sign him every year. This is the only reason I can think of to acquire John Buck right now.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 8, 2014 -> 09:56 AM) I have not said this. Frankly, my opinion was favorable towards Quintana, not Samardzija, but some people are failing to realize this because I didn't say that "Quintana is better than Samardzija," but instead said it is "crazy to say that Quintana is better than Samardzija." Production wise, they have been, for all intents and purposes, equally good. I personally believe Samardzija has better stuff. Quintana is the more valuable commodity at this point. Excellent summary of your last 5 posts combined, lol.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 8, 2014 -> 06:59 AM) What can you trade for that puts your rebuilding in a better position without Quintana? Two top 10 prospects? I think I'd still prefer the 25-year old proven starting pitcher with the team friendly contract until 2020. QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jul 8, 2014 -> 08:29 AM) I agree. He is more valuable to us than what it would take for anyone else to acquire him. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 8, 2014 -> 08:50 AM) Q is a good pitcher who is signed for way below market rate for the forseeable future. If someone isn't willing to drastically overpay, there is zero reason to trade him. This, absolutely.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Jul 8, 2014 -> 03:36 AM) I don't think Hawk does that, but he was an announcer who went on to be a general manager. Yes, he was the GM for one disastrous season which saw 90 losses, the signings of 41-year old Steve Carlton and 37-year old George Foster, the firings of Tony La Russa and Dave Dombrowski, and the giving away of prospect Bobby Bonilla. But yes, even Hawk does not evaluate a player's performance solely on a single statistic.

QUOTE (Charlie Haeger's Knuckles @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 06:00 PM) If the truth lies somewhere between then why not average them out? aWar = (bWar+fWar)/2 I've seen it done before -- FanGraphs has a bWAR-like metric called RA9-WAR (runs-allowed per 9) and for specific articles, sometimes they've averaged them (though mostly they just present both independently). I think the reason they haven't created an official "averaged" metric is because they believe that the FIP-based metric is much closer to correct in most instances. So while the averaged metric may be more accurate in the aggregate, it would be more inaccurate for most individual instances, and I think we'd all agree that it's more useful to be right about specific pitchers than it is to be right about the league or a team as a whole. Dave Cameron's philosophy (or what his philosophy seems to be IMO) on these things is one I like: in the face of incomplete information, one should cite additional information to make the analysis complete, rather than water down the initial information for the sake of summary. FWIW, I think the "official" line on the difference between FIP-based WAR and RA9-based WAR is that the larger the sample of performance gets (assuming stable conditions like velocity and stuff), the more accurate RA9-WAR becomes as a predictor of future performance and, by extension, as a proxy for "true talent." It's pretty rare, though, that a pitcher accumulates enough innings WITHOUT significant physiological or circumstantial changes that we would feel better looking to RA9-WAR as the "primary" tool. When it does turn out that way, it's usually a sign of a pretty extreme case, such as someone who is abnormally good at homerun prevention over a very long time without suffering any major injuries that would diminish velocity.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 04:55 PM) I realize Adam Dunn can draw a walk. I could say his lack of speed negates much when he does walk, but that would be controversial I'm sure. He's a power hitter who doesn't hit many home runs, that's my main comment. You guys with the advanced stats ... I love 'em (I realize Dunn draws walks) but I will repeat my mantra: How come when I watch a baseball game I sometimes see OBP included in the graphic but never, ever do the announcers comment on such stats?? The announcers tend to make more greg-like statements than using your guys' advanced numbers. Sometimes you act like I am in the 1 percent group when I'm not. How come the announcers don't go on to be general managers? Also, what does any of that have to do with ignoring everything except homeruns when evaluating a player? Does Hawk do that?

QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 03:25 PM) if the sox do not get Rodon, I think keeping Dank is a foregone conclusion. I do not think those two events are connected in any way.

fWAR uses FIP, so it strips the influence of defense on a pitcher's success. Everyone, including FanGraphs, believe that FIP probably goes too far in it's culling, and may underrate pitchers that are uncommonly good at inducing weak contact or preventing homeruns. bWAR uses ERA, so it assumes that a pitcher is responsible for the entirety of a teams defensive effort when he is on the mound. This is inherently unstable and non-predictive because a pitcher is given credit or harmed if (1) his defense is or is performing above or below average, if the pitcher has been lucky or unlucky through BABIP fluctuations, and (3) the pitcher has been lucky or unlucky in terms of run or hit sequencing. The argument fWAR is accuracy over completeness; the argument for bWAR is completeness over accuracy. The truth is somewhere between the two, but most pundits believe it is closer to fWAR.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 01:30 PM) This really should not be a shock. Anderson oozes potential, but his lack of defense and poor K-to-BB rate will cause him to drop in many eyes. Everyone else in our system has major flaws. Rodon no doubt would be there, if eligible. From the article:

QUOTE (venom4789 @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 01:43 PM) While i am sure there are there moments it seems this board doesnt have the random trolls that continually pop up over there, or posters who continue to say the same thing over and over. Haha, please don't set your expectations too high.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 12:56 PM) The guy has 12 home runs; Paulie has five. Guess what? Paulie would have 12 home runs if he had as many plate appearances as Dunn. I stand by my comment. Dunn is done. Any contender that acquires him has made a huge mistake IMO. Geez, you are satisfied with Dunn's performance? Why? 12 home runs? If Hahn can get anybody useful for Dunn, bless Hahn. I can't imagine a contender wanting to mess with him. What is the obsession with ignoring 90% of every player's performance? Judge Dunn on what he's done at the plate, not one component. Dunn = .224/.365/.423 (119 wRC+) Does no team need a left-handed DH/emergency 1B that hits 19% better than league average? Idk, but that should be the question or argument, not "Dunn only has 12 homers."

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 08:39 AM) If I was Boras, I would just say two words. "Manny Ramirez (Scott Downs/Jeff Keppinger/Felipe Paulino). You're going to quibble over $250-500,000 over your future frontline starter, c'mon Rick Hahn. You went to Kellogg School and Harvard Law. You're not dumb. The White Sox need Carlos Rodon as much as he needs them. Besides, nobody's coming to games as it is, and you already have two of the top ten players in baseball. Plus, I know you're not going to spend $100+ million in free agency, Carlos is your best chance to have a winner again on the SouthSide." I would remind Scott that he has even less leverage than I do. I'd have him ask his client if he liked how his stock slipped from last year to this, and ask him if he feels good about going back to school and trying to get drafted again for the sake of quibbling over that same $250-500k. I'd ask him to remember that while that money isn't a bunch to our owners, it happens to be strictly limited in terms of draft spending, and that a true franchise player would want it distributed in such a way that maximizes his team's chances to win.

Welcome, indeed.