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QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 04:45 PM) Of course he isn't. JC has amassed far more saves. Easy jokes aside, I'm all in favor of seeing what Surkamp can do in the Bigs. I respect what Jake has to say about not jerking pitchers around. My own baseball background is such that I understand that a linear, orderly, sensible development plan is the better idea when circumstances allow. Unfortunately, circumstances don't always allow. At least not for every "prospect." Surkamp comes to us as something of a failed prospect. Perhaps that's too harsh. Maybe it's best to call him a suspect prospect -- someone who is more likely the classic AAAA player than anything else. He's had a good amount of success in the minors. There are certainly quality major league left-handed starters who had roughly his type of arsenal. But, at some point, the only real question is whether his "stuff" plays at the major league level. And you know that only by checking that out. Thus far -- in an admittedly VERY limited run -- it hasn't. But that doesn't mean that much. You need only look at players like Gillaspie and Eaton to see that it's foolish to assume a prospect's ceiling from his first taste of the Bigs. I'm quite sure what many are worrying about here doesn't worry Surkamp in the least. The Parent Club wants him. No matter the current role, the Sox want to see if he's capable of getting major league hitters out. If he can show that he can do that consistently, then all sorts of opportunities open up for him. And with his specific tools, that most likely means L.H. starter. JC is a BUST

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 03:32 PM) I much prefer RBI as it's not what you hit, but when you hit it. Show me a good seventheighthanninth hitter and I'll show you a good hitter.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 12:05 PM) It's already been confirmed Carroll is getting Rienzo's start. Ahh, thanks.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 02:35 PM) I did read it. But did you read the post to which I was replying? If you had, I would assume it was pretty evident "what is the point???" I was making. But I suppose I'll use a few more words to make my point more clear. I replied to the statement: "Eaton needs to be a 750ish OPS guy to have the type of major impact we need in the leadoff spot." This comment in particular and other comments of its type often don't make much sense to me. I then pointed out that the White Sox won a world series with a leadoff hitter who had a much worse OPS than Eaton currently does as support of my position that Eaton does not NEED to be a .750ish OPS guy. Eaton is not one of the top ten biggest problems with the team. A .700 OPS in 2014 is way, way better than a .700 OPS (what Pods had) in 2005. And the issue of comparing OPS from different offensive environments is one of the best reasons to use wRC+ instead, because it is adjusted for that. 2005 Podsednik: 88 wRC+ 2014 Eaton: 105 wRC+

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 01:56 PM) so when someone mention S Podsednik during the WS run he was below league average yet he perform well. doesn't that contradict each other? btw thanks The 100 number represents LEAGUE average, and thus doesn't account for positions. The average CF is a below league average hitter, typically. Good defenders at premium positions can be below average hitters and still be tremendously valuable if they compare well to others at the same position.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 03:00 PM) Ridiculous to compare the BEST three months of Rizzo's career with the ONLY three months of Abreu's. Current performances may hold, or not. Abreu's OBP will likely go way up once pitchers realize that he has little protection behind him. Well, there are other factors too -- like the fact that Rizzo is much younger and thus could theoretically have more upside. But who knows. I think the point is that you can make a very valid case that either one is the better player, and that fact is probably kind of surprising.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 01:02 PM) but... but... I'm constantly told WAR is the ultimate stat to say who is good and who is bad. Ironically the only people that ever say that are anti-SABR and have no idea what they're talking about. None of the people that have actually supported the work have ever claimed that. It's like when college kids only watch the Daily Show and suddenly have really strong political opinions. That's what you're like right now.

QUOTE (TitoMB @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 11:58 AM) Soon, please. Let's get a real manager so we can stop wasting Sale's years. A real bullpen will do much more.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 11:35 AM) So let me ask you this-- what year starts the "no excuses, it's time to win a division or a wildcard spot"? And I'm not saying Sale and Abreu get injured and we still expect to win. I'm saying the Sox could lose Jones and Lindstrom in the same year, and the Sox would have reserves. What's the time frame for no excuses? Idk, but it definitely ISN'T year one, lol.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 11:57 AM) I'm screwing around. Robin gets ripped for using guys in his bullpen in "high leverage" situations. Like there are only 1 or 2 guys who should be allowed to pitch in those situations. Good luck with that in the real world. Chances are Surkhamp sucks, but he is probably at least as good as Downs at this point. Ahh. Use green

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 11:42 AM) I haven't watched a Sox game the whole year but by looking at things on paper my guess is that the bullpen totally sucks. That's the sum of it. They can't get dudes out. None of them. Then when they fail everyone is like "oh, well why did Robin let HIM pitch?" Because the whole group is bad. 100% bad players. WTF do you want to do? Oh, shoulda let Guerra blow it instead of Belisario? Whatever.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 09:36 AM) Or you can just call him up to begin the year anyways and pay the Super 2 salary. If ihe's the best player and you think it could make a difference at the end of the year, there's no reason to keep him in the minors for half the year to ultimately save around $4 mill total. If the guy's good, he's gonna get paid eventually anyways. Still gotta keep him down long enough to ensure the phantom seventh year of control, but yeah, holding out for the Super 2 deadline is asking to shoot yourself in the foot if you have a guy that is going to make your team better.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 09:42 AM) His career ERA is 7.36. He cannot be used in high leverage situations. He's also leading the entire international league in strikeouts while only giving up 2 BB/9. Why would we damn him forever based on 7 ML appearances over the past 3 years? Is it not possible something changed after a formerly touted prospect joined a new organization that has a history of being above-average in reclamation projects?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 09:44 AM) Why talk about something that will never in a million billion trillion quadrillion years happen??? If they do want to move on without Robin at some point, it won't be announced as a firing anyway. He'll move to a different position in the organization or there will be some type of pr spinmeister press release covering Robin's pride and demonstrating the never-ending patience and loyalty of JR. I just have NO idea what you're talking about. What is the thing that won't ever happen? Why do we have to choose between Ventura or Hahn today for the rest of our lives? What did you ask the poll was related to the thread topic?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 09:41 AM) But it's not...simply because the majority of the talent's going to have to come from other organizations, it's nothing like what the Cubs are doing. They're telling fans to wait for 5-6 years (this is year 4 and they won't even bring up Kris until June, 2015) for Bryant, Baez, Rizzo, Castro, Soler and Almora to take the National League Central by storm. It's a restructing of the roster, but it's still more of a "win now" mode due to the presence already of Sale/Abreu/Quintana...if it was a true rebuild, they'd start completely over instead of having those three building blocks all in their primes. And they would have waited pulling the trigger on someone like Tanaka because they wouldn't want to waste the best 2-3 years of his big league career on non-contending/rebuilding/restructuring teams. It can be a rebuild and NOT be what the Cubs are doing.

This is telling. As the only lefty, Surkamp will definitely be a RP for the time being. Must mean Carroll is getting another hard look at SP.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 10:34 AM) How does this poll apply? Seriously, Ventura's here as long as he wants to be. Especially if they trade Alexei Ramirez, Beckham, Viciedo, etc. That gives him through the 2016 season, at a bare minimum, because you're not realistically expecting to compete anymore in 2015 simply because the free agents out there don't really fill our needs (Sandoval, Headley) or they will be prohibitively expensive (Hanley Ramirez, Scherzer, Lester, Shields, etc.) and the hitting prospects we have at AA or AAA aren't expected to be All-Star caliber players. You essentially only have one significant trade chip in Alexei Ramirez. The rest of the changes are going to come from spending in free agency, and that's not the White Sox style. Unless they hit a home run on every single "minor" trade like Beckham, Viciedo, DeAza, Dunn, Putnam, Belisario, etc., it's too big of a hill to climb. They can't move John Danks. The reality of the situation is that Hahn has to get a bounty from a Ramirez trade and pray to god that Rodon's a stud instead of another Andruw Miller.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 10:22 AM) Let's say you have a fiance and you're unsure about her....wavering back and forth. You have two hypothetical choices. You either marry her today or you never see her again for the rest of your life. If you can't imagine your future without her, then the choice is clear. I think nearly everyone wants to see what this White Sox team looks like in 3 years with Hahn given a free reign to make decisions as he sees fit. On the other hand, I don't think more than a few would be overly upset if Robin Ventura wasn't around to manage that 2017 team. Granted, we've seen 1 more season of Ventura as manager than Hahn as GM, but we should be very familiar with him from all the time he was the most highly-paid Assistant GM in all of baseball. Lol how does that analogy apply to our managerial situation at all?

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 08:57 AM) And this is one of the things I hate about the advanced stats: "Nevertheless, ERA estimators are somewhat more favorably disposed to Downs’s work on the year, as he owns a 3.69 FIP, 4.07 xFIP, and 3.96 SIERA. While his 58.5% strand rate is one mark that looks prime for regression, that is also perhaps a reflection of the fact that he has been less than successful in his LOOGY role. On the other hand, Downs has held opposing left-handed hitters to a .225/.309/.367 mark; his real issue has been with righties, who own a .296/.415/.364 triple-slash against him." Anyone who has followed the games this year know he has been terrible. Multiple times he has been called in to face 1-2 batters and has done so without even recording an out. That 6+ ERA is deceptively *low* not high, thanks mainly to the fact that guys like Putnam and Petricka, being used similar spots in the game, have bailed his ass out. Funny though, last night's performance against Davis was a good one IMO where pitch selection got him, and that's not on him. He threw what Flowers wanted and Flowers wanted the wrong thing. But still, overall the guy has been very bad and if whatever measure you are looking at says otherwise then either the measure is garbage or you have to say there's not enough data yet for the measurement to prove effective. That's not the fault of the advanced stats, it's the fault of the author. Those numbers are NOT good for a reliever, and especially not for a platoon specialist.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 09:53 AM) Would ANYONE fire Hahn and keep Ventura instead (in one of those hypothetical situations where you have no choice but to lose one or the other)? I bet those in favor of that would be comprised of....well, who exactly would take that position? What kind of question is that?

I think we should address the manager after we address the team on the field.

I think Robin has earned a lifetime contract.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 08:22 AM) Heyman tweeting Downs has been DFA http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/06/whit...cott-downs.html

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 07:58 AM) I have to imagine it will be Heath. That would make zero lefties in the pen

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Jun 25, 2014 -> 07:45 PM) This replay s*** has got to go. Never fear the truth, young one.