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You and I must not have watched the same game. What I saw was a coach trying to save a two run lead by not letting his pitchers continue to walk three of every four batters they faced. I guess he could have let Veal or Cleto stay in and actually lose the game right then and there, thus eliminating the need to play extra innings.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 01:50 PM) Yeah, Kenny owes Ozzie nothing. The shots I saw of Kenny after the WS victory were of his celebrating pretty wildly. Ozzie had a lot to do with the best period of Kenny's professional life. That wasn't all Kenny, folks. He definitely had SOMETHING to do with it.

Depends if you trust the Pitch F/X or Fangraphs discipline numbers more. According to Pitch F/X, he's laid off more bad pitches. According to Fangraphs, he hasn't. According to both, he's making MUCH more contact on good pitches. The BABIP will drop 80-100 points, so that's bad. The LD rate will drop (thought it's hard to say how much), so that's bad. He's never had a Z-Contact better than ~5% below league average, and he's suddenly 5% over. That's the thing to watch, IMO. Has he stopped swinging so hard in order to make more contact? Good or bad, that could make a real difference. I need to look into how FG calculates discipline numbers relative to Pitch F/X so I can decide which one I want to believe.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 08:50 AM) In what role though? I highly doubt KW is talking manager here. I loves me some Super Joe at 3B coach. Bench coach?? Not sure what to think of Parent. Infield instructor?? I'm not even sure that exists. Or just something like "Latin ambassador"? Popcorn vendor

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 09:35 AM) I didn't know Leury Garcia pitched last night. How is his stuff? Ton of movement on the change-up (77mph), decent movement on his two seamer (88mph). Completely, totally wild though. It was just luck if it landed in the strikezone.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 09:38 AM) I think someone posted this a couple of months ago, citing it as evidence that AJ was a "class act". The bar for "class act" must be pretty low with athletes.

QUOTE (chisoxfan310 @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 11:25 AM) Chris Sale on days he throws a bp session.... Not the worst idea I've ever heard, lol. Just set an exact pitches cap. If he doesn't exceed it, he stays on the field and finishes while everyone is leaving the stadium, haha.

QUOTE (Bigsoxhurt35 @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 07:15 AM) Should have a 1 game lead but since Ventura is our manager... Yeah I can't see any reason at all to blame last night on Ventura. What would you have done differently? Let Cleto or Veal blow the game for the sake of saving more pitchers for extra innings?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 08:15 AM) Webb threw almost 60 pitches, didn't he? He's going to have to sit now until Saturday, probably Sunday. And he's our best pitcher in the bullpen right now. Yeah, dude battled. For sure. Took one for the team.

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 07:54 AM) The umps sorta sucked last night. Yeah but like. They walked 15 batters. 13 of them were by pitchers, even.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 08:48 AM) You know who has good control? Dylan Axelrod. I say they bring him back and insert him at closer. But seriously, I don't know why Lindstrom is closing still. He performs much better in middle relief and set up. Move on with the inevitable and insert Webb into the role. He's going to be awesome. He wasn't, really. He was sent in to try to bail out Cleto.

Awesome, awesome article on linear weights and wOBA: http://www.hardballtimes.com/why-woba-works/ Probably the most complete explanation I've seen for free online. Don't have to tell people to buy The Book anymore, haha.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 16, 2014 -> 09:23 AM) The problem is K-rates that high in the minors generally lead to higher K-rates in the majors. I'm not writing him off, but unless he becomes a 30-40 homer guy, I don't think he's going to have much of a career if he doesn't improve making contact. Hopefully, he is currently just going through a bad stretch and it is not a sign of where he's really at, or this arb clock everyone is worried about is moot. Great point. If we're okay with Davidson being a ~25% guy in the Majors, we really want to see him get down to at LEAST 20% in AAA.

Yep, good offseason into a good April so far. Bullpen is painful, but the position players are playing so well that even the losses don't feel as bad.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 16, 2014 -> 08:59 AM) You wouldn't because you would be paying him to do it again next year and that is very doubtful at this point. Dunn isn't very good, but he doesn't deserve the hate and boos he has received. He seems to be a good guy, a good teammate and certainly is one of the few White Sox who has run everything out the past 3 years. It's not like he isn't trying. That said, there is no scenerio, even if he keeps this up, do I think the Sox would give him a QO, and there is no way he keeps this up. His OPS is almost 1.100. Soxtalk has removed him from the dead weight list. He is doing exactly what the best case scenerio for him would be. Hopefully, he hits like he did the middle 4 months of last year for the entire season. He'll help win more games, but I'm sure, unless he has his best season with the White Sox, and is willing to play for peanuts next year, he's done with the team at the end of this season at the latest.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 15, 2014 -> 05:36 PM) On Rios: Erratic past performance, and contract are the reason few wanted him. Again, track record of erratic past performance. What about Hansen's past performance? Was it better than Rios? What about the Beltran vs. Ellsbury example from this post? Why were the Rays willing to give up James Shields for Wil Myers? Why wouldn't anyone give up prospects with no track record for David Price this offseason? He's a year removed from the Cy Young! How come the Yankees only gave Jeter $15m/yr on his last contract? He made more than that before, hadn't his track record improved? Why does David Ortiz keep getting short-term deals, even though he continues to put up All-Star seasons? QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 15, 2014 -> 05:36 PM) On Peavy/Feldman: You're the one who said track record didn't matter. I'm just going to repost this until you read it or stop pretending I didn't say it. This time I'll bold parts that most directly contradict what you keep claiming I say. If you're still having trouble, maybe I'll try to come up with a way to draw a picture: 3. What I DID say in an earlier thread is that GMs should (and increasing DO) pay for players (in both money and assets) based on the performance they expect going forward as opposed to the performance that has occurred in the past. Track record is one thing that can inform a projected performance going forward, but it would be foolish to use it exclusively. Why could Carlos Beltran only sign a 2yr/$26m contract this offseason? His track record suggests he's a borderline hall of famer! Should someone have paid him $100m? Because that's what Ellsbury got and Ellsbury doesn't have as good a track record. 4. Regarding Peavy/Feldman: There are more factors that go into trade value than simply the quality of one player versus the other. Here are some examples: number of suitors, contract length, contract dollars, budget of teams involved, value of marginal wins to team involved, personality of front office, ownership expectations, near and long-term revenue opportunities, perceived window of competition, etc. You're comparing two different players with different contracts who were traded from two different teams to two other different teams at different parts of the season and expecting that their trade values should be compared apples to apples. That's like saying "if this burger isn't better than steak, how come it cost the same today as a steak cost in 1911?" Track record is definitely a factor in projection, but the ultimate measure of a player's value on the field is what he WILL produce when you acquire him. What matters is projection. This is also why team control affects trade value so highly -- you're buying future performance, NOT past performance. QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 15, 2014 -> 05:36 PM) On Fangraghs: The academic version of the strike zone isn't necessarily the strike zone they use in games. It may be the "best data we have", but it doesn't make assumptions based off of it any closer to fact than those not based off of it. In terms of player evaluation, it doesn't matter, because the academic strikezone is a constant from which pitch location can be judged. Variances in umpire behavior can be expected to cancel each other out over the course of a season because each player faces a random sampling of the same umpires. Using the academic strike zone may not give us an accurate representation of called strikes on some given nights, but it will still tell us which players swing at worse pitches relative to one another or relative to the league average. Additionally, I'm still not sure why any of this makes FanGraphs crap and what it has to do with the New York Times. QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 15, 2014 -> 05:36 PM) On Paulino: I don't care if they signed him for the pen, but to be a 4th starter was a ridiculous leap of faith on Hahn's part. I think that we can come close to agreeing on one thing: that the Paulino move is much worse in the context of the rest of the offseason. It is a good practice to buy low on players you think you can fix, but you must also acquire depth in order to protect against failure of the hail mary. My guess is that the Sox overestimated Rienzo's ability/readiness, and that they probably needed another back-end veteran retread.

Keppinger isn't going anywhere until he shows he's healthy.

Keppinger makes $4m per year. Gordon Beckham makes $4m per year.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 15, 2014 -> 12:45 PM) Just to be clear, one can think Semien is major league-ready (which I do), and think his few issues can be corrected at the MLB level (which I also do)... but ALSO think the overall best path for the team is for him to be in AAA for a couple months while Beckham ups his trade value. Being in AAA a couple months, especially since he's spent very little time there anyway, does not hurt his development, and may in fact help it. Absolutely. I'm actually on the fence with what I want to happen. I do think there is potential danger in sending a guy with advanced plate discipline to the minors, however, especially if coaching is in fact trying to get him to expand his zone (no idea if they are, just that it could be justifiable giving that he takes so many strikes.), simply because he could develop bad habits in being able to succeed hitting crappier stuff. No idea if it would hurt him or not, but I think it's plausible that it could. I don't think we, as fans, can have enough information to know what's best. It'll come down to how clearly the coaching staff thinks they can communicate with him. Maybe it's as simple as "do nothing different, just rake and wait for your shot."

Here's another way to look at it: What exactly do we want Semien to learn in AAA? When I look at his results and peripherals, I really only see one issue: strikeout rate (28.1%). But what is causing the high K rate? Almost everything actually looks really good. The BB rate is a touch above league average (10.5%), the O-Swing rate is significantly better than average (18.6% by Pitch F/X, 24.1% by FG), and his Z-Contact is right in line with league average (83.5%/88.2%). The issue appears to lie in Z-Swing (56.1% compared to about 65% for average) and O-Contact (50% compared to about 65% again). So it appears he's (1) actually taking too many good pitches in the zone, and (2) in the rare instances that he DOES swing outside of the zone or get fooled by a slider, he's really struggling to make contact. I can't see any reason that improving either of those wouldn't best be done at the highest level possible. And, arguably, he may not even WANT to change #1 much if he's operating under direction to work counts. If he's going to improve, it's going to be on recognizing ML breaking pitches. I don't think he can do that in AAA because he won't be seeing those high quality pitches.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 06:50 PM) Track record caps whatever trade value a player has. This is not true. I'll give you an example: when we were trading Alex Rios, the Pirates were involved. It was rumored that the Sox wanted Alen Hanson but that the Pirates were not interested in making such a deal. Alex Rios had a long track record as an effective major leaguer, whereas Hanson had literally NO track record, and in fact, his stock had recently fallen from a disappointing minor league season. Why would the Pirates not be anxious to make that trade, given their obvious need and the very, very obviously better track record for Rios? Because projection is more important. Track record is definitely a factor in projection, but the ultimate measure of a player's value on the field is what he WILL produce when you acquire him. What matters is projection. This is also why team control affects trade value so highly -- you're buying future performance, NOT past performance. QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 06:50 PM) 4. of course there are many factors. Then why did you ask me the question about Peavy and Feldman, insinuating that the only thing different was track record? QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 06:50 PM) As far as Fangraghs goes, it is their opinion that Viciedo swings at sh**ty pitches. I watch his AB's and have the same opinion. No, it's NOT a matter of opinion. FanGraphs reports Pitch F/X data that records exactly how many s***ty pitches Viciedo swings at based on the academic definition of the strikezone. It's fact. And I still don't understand what this has to do with the New York Times. QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 06:50 PM) As far as Paulino goes, he was bad before he was signed. I'd rather have spent money on a capable Ml starter. Paulino had loud tools and a career derailed by injury. The White Sox felt that he was fully healthy and that he could be successful under their tutelage. It seems they were wrong, but I'd much rather they try when they feel they've got a shot. It isn't about Paulino, it's about what Paulino represents: a team that has had a great deal of success with pitching reclamation projects continuing to try to be successful with pitching reclamation projects. It sucks that it hasn't worked in this instance, but it's good that they continue to take the shot.

It's really just going to come down to which pitcher our staff feels like it can work with best. No matter which one they grab, it's going to be an easily defensible choice at the time.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 03:44 PM) What the hell happened to Jair Jurrjens? If he isn't hurt for the year he would be nice to bring in.. I actually would rather have most of those guys instead of Paulino Something's very wrong with him. His velocity dropped drastically. He's cooked.

Cahill: Too much money for a "fix 'em" project, unfortunately.

It's also probably fair to say that "depth" is not our problem right now. Konerkois useless on paper, sure, but his roster spot isn't keeping us from wins at this point. The "everyday" bullpen is the issue. So is Paulino, but it's typical for your 5th best starter to be in flux. We've actually been spoiled with good back-enders in recent years.