Eminor3rd

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 19, 2014 -> 01:24 PM) I should say, this is all cost prohibitive. If he came cheap, absolutely I would, and I'd prefer him over Danks. I doubt that's what Pittsburgh has in mind though. Me too, in fact that's why I started the thread. I read a couple different places that the Pirates should be hoping for little more than salary relief. Don't know if that;s true or not, but if it is, I'm all for it. I think he's better than both Viciedo and De Aza today and over the next several seasons.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Mar 19, 2014 -> 01:04 PM) A .340 BABIP is not something that is generally sustainable, even if he does remain on the high end around .315-.320, his profile looks even more like a fourth OF. He is what he is, a contact bat without much else going for him. Even in the post PED era, that is not enough to play a corner spot. Yeah, that's what my post just said: that he wouldn't sustain a .340 BABIP. If he held .315 though, it would be reasonable to expect a wRC+ in the 105 - 110 range (given his 118 last year), which is above average for a corner OF any way you slice it.

I'm still rooting for a trade. This is the one year when it'll be okay if he accidentally don't have enough depth. Let's move an OF or DH.

I've always liked Alexei. At times, I've liked him a LOT. The weird thing about him is how he completely reversed himself in terms of his onfield contribution. He started out as a raw, toolsy power guy with average footspeed and on-base skills, who was thrown into CF because he was bad defensively. Since then, he's slowly morphed in a light-hitting, free-swinging defensive specialist who suddenly steals a ton of bases. Literally the opposite of the typical career path. He's disappointing because he could have been a consistent 20 homer guy if he ever learned some plate discipline. There's no doubt he has the contact skills, but you're going to produce a ton of pop ups and weak grounders when you insist on swinging at stuff at your eyes, off the handle, and 9 inches off the plate. Even as some parts of his game have declined though, he's improved other parts and remained a useful player. But yeah, he's not netting a top 3 prospect.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Mar 19, 2014 -> 10:34 AM) Don't like this Which part? Phegley?

QUOTE (flavum @ Mar 19, 2014 -> 10:29 AM) If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I still find it unlikely Nieto makes it to Chicago next weekend. There's just no point in keeping Giminez if they think Nieto has any upside at all. Giminez is a nice role player, but his type is readily available every year. Methinks it'll be Nieto.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 19, 2014 -> 10:24 AM) Glad to see the lead 6th starters not being put into the bullpen. Rienzo and Surkamp both should be pitching every 5th day. This

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Mar 19, 2014 -> 09:28 AM) Tabata seems more like a fourth OF. Not enough power to be a corner guy and not good enough defense to play CF. He does not hit LHP's that well and has a pretty high BABIP to average discrepancy, showing that a lot of his success against RHP is likely artificial. Viciedo is younger (6 months) and has real power in his bat. Definitely not willing to give up on Viciedo until after we see him this season. I don't think that's how you want to use BABIP. You want to compare it to league average, and then make concessions for batted ball type. So his BABIP last year was .340 against a league average .297. But he has a career 60% GB rate, which is high compared to a league average of 45%. Groundballs have an inherently high BABIP. So we expect his BABIP to regress toward around .300, but less so than a player with normal batted ball splits. ZIPS/Steamer have him projected in the .306 - .308 range, which seems about right to me -- or maybe just a touch low, depending on how you feel about his speed.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Mar 19, 2014 -> 08:17 AM) It's a long shot but if Houston is *really* down on Chris Carter (sure sounds like it) then Dunn + total salary relief + a reasonable prospect like Carlos Sanchez for Chris Carter would be an interesting proposition. Carter is a Steverson guy from his A's days and although Carter is basically a mirror of Dunn offensively, he'll be 27 this year so there's at least a shot he'll continue to develop into something better. If not, what do you lose, a UT player prospect? You could offer the same type of deal with a relief prospect or somewhat interesting but far away SP spect. But again Houston only does that if they're completely sure they want out on Carter. The thesis of your entire argument has been to get Dunn out of the way to open up playing time for a non-Dunn player. Now you want to replace him a guy who you just described as a "mirror of Dunn offensively," get no salary relief, AND give up a prospect in the process? You just undermined the objective part of your argument, completely. What you have just proposed does nothing but hurt the team's chances to win now and in the future. This is clearly nothing more than a personal vendetta and there's no reason for anyone to take your argument seriously.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Mar 18, 2014 -> 05:50 PM) ^There would have to be another deal to make that work though where the Sox trade an OF. I'd be curious to know what the Twins would give up for DeAza, especially if the Sox threw something decent in with him. Supposedly they are thinking about dealing some spects due to slow ticket sales. Which, then leads me to predict that Tabata just goes straight to the Twins :'(

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Mar 18, 2014 -> 06:51 PM) He's an incremental upgrade. That's not what we need right now. Fill a couple of more holes first with plus players and then settle for some incremental talents. Man I don't know about that. He's a substantially better defender and substantially better hitter than both Viciedo and De Aza, or at least he was last year. Neither one of those dudes even sniffed a 118 wRC+. Projection systems like him to regress, but still. We're starving for that kind of OBP and he's 25 and extended already. De Aza is 30 and going to be a FA soon. I imagine Tabata being that #2 hitter we haven't really had since like Ray Durham or something.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Mar 18, 2014 -> 05:50 PM) We already have extra OFers we are trying to trade, so I don't see the reason to acquire even more. Well, that's why we'd trade Viciedo. Tabata is 25 and already on an affordable extension. And is a plus defender. So he's better than all of our extras. Otherwise, yeah, we'd have to DFA De Aza or something

The Pirates are shopping Jose Tabata because they have too many OF and don't want to block Polanco. He is signed for three or four more years at between $3m - $6m each and then has a bunch of options. He put up .282/.342/.429 last year, good for a 118 wRC+, over about two thirds of a season. His baserunning seems a little below average. His defense, by TZ/UZR, seems a tick above average. For some reason, I keep reading that all they'll get is salary relief. What am I missing? He hit only 6 homers, so he has a lot less power than your typical corner OF, but .340+ OBP doesn't grow on trees anymore. I want him. The Pirates need a 1B. I want them to have Viciedo. Am I crazy? http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/03/pira...ose-tabata.html

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Mar 18, 2014 -> 02:37 PM) Not fitting the bill on this puts him in company shared by, oh, all but 2 or 3 people in the history of Earth Don't blame me, blame all 700 players/media personalities who keep comparing him to Miguel Cabrera!

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Mar 18, 2014 -> 03:22 PM) I view tools and skill to be pretty much the same thing. Different players are going to have different skills that are part of their overall toolset. It's the skill vs. will comparison that will set players apart. Granted, if a guy has little skill, all the will in the world won't help him at the MLB level. But, if you have two players with similar skills and one busts his ass day in and day out to get better, he's going to succeed over a guy who tries to fall back to his "god-given" skills. Garcia is a guy with the skills to be a great player, but he's going to have to bust his ass. See I see "skill" as what you develop, tools as something like ability. Like a pitcher may have a crazy good arm, but his path to developing command and control is a "skill." Avisail has great strength, speed, hand-eye coordination. These are his abilities, gifts, tools, etc. But the "skill" of hitting is pitch recognition, pitch selection, muscle memory, body control, swing mechanics, mental planning, etc. Anyway I'm not saying I'm the authority on how those words are used, but that's what I've meant when I've used them.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 18, 2014 -> 02:38 PM) 1. So he doesnt hit like probably one of the best hitters EVER? Thats CRAZY!!!!!!! 2. The guy put up a .775 OPS with us last year at age 22, and has tremendous upside. So yes, he has great talent. Come on, Rock, don't ignore context. You're not like these other guys. He put up a .775 OPS on the strength of a .370 BABIP, over 42 games. Players ride .370 BABIPs all the way to MVP awards. A .775 OPS on that BABIP is somewhere between disappointing and very disappointing. Furthermore, he did it with a league average LD% somehow, which is numerical corroboration to what we all already observed -- a whole bunch of seeing-eye grounders and shanked pop-up ducksnorts. If he does everything that way he did last year, that BABIP is going to drop substantially. It may stay above .300 if he continues to hit 8-10% more GB than average, but take 50 or so points off of that BABIP and stay around 3.0% BB rate, and that average-ish RF OPS will very quickly become below average. The dude needs to learn to take bad pitches and work a count. He's 22, so hopefully he does, but he has shown us nothing so far. He has shown remarkable tools, and no skills. It depends how you define talent, I guess, but I always think of it more toward the skill side of that spectrum. EDIT: Also, I'm not expecting him to be one of the greatest hitters ever, and I'm not saying he has to be him to be successful -- but that's the comparison everyone is making that I'm criticizing in my post. I'm tired of people comparing him to Miguel Cabrera. As players, they are nothing alike. EDIT 2: Oh, and he looks like Manny Ramirez in the OF. I really hope that changes fast

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 18, 2014 -> 01:42 PM) Joey Nowak ‏@joeynowak 16m Bo Jackson thought Avisail Garcia was Miguel Cabrera. Common mistake. Said he just "oozes talent." Bo on Garcia: "He looks more like an NFL defensive end than a right fielder." Whatever talent he's oozing, it isn't hitting or fielding a baseball. I get it, he's a physical specimen. Someone teach him how to play. He may look like Cabrera, but he sure as hell doesn't hit like him.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 18, 2014 -> 10:41 AM) I don't mind Vin. I have heard the Brewers, Rangers, and Angels crews in the last week. Talk about a load of suck. Yeah, especially the Brewers guys. I thought I heard they were good. Are we sure that was the actual in-season team? Could be their version of Bill Melton, for example.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 18, 2014 -> 10:33 AM) It has been torture to listen to spring training games this year. There haven't been a lot of Sox broadcasts, so I have been forced to listen to the other teams feeds. It makes me want to kick puppies. As much as I hate every hype train, I gotta say that I believe that Vin Scully is NOT overrated.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 18, 2014 -> 08:51 AM) Emotionless and unbiased announcers are boring as hell. The best announcers in sports are the guys who get into the game and make you feel like you are there. I agree with you on that point. Hawk was amazing in the 90's and early 2000's. At this point, though, he's actually hurting the brand. I used to think that maybe my opinion of him has just changed over the years and that I was too young to care much when I watch him 10-15 years ago. But then I went through a short period where I was seeking out old games to re-watch and I realized I was wrong -- Hawk used to be a much more alert, professional announcer that had a passionate edge that made him a cut above the rest. Now, he's become a caricature. My hope is that he leaves on his own accord soon so we can honor his memory. The way it's going now, he'll either get forced out by finally going too far or he'll keep getting worse until he dies at his lowest point. I don't want either of those to happen.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 18, 2014 -> 09:46 AM) With the meltdowns I see on Soxtalk, I laugh that it bothers people that Hawk, who is WAY more connected to this team and game, has a meltdown about something. Fans can have meltdowns, you're not supposed to do it as the official voice of the franchise.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Mar 17, 2014 -> 02:47 PM) Agreed. However, consider mixing chocolate pudding with corn starch, adding some yellow food coloring and pieces of canned kernel corn, and then consider squeezing the result from a pastry frosting gun so that it looked like poo. That wouldn't be so bad. Who would really know? I'd definitely eat fake poo if Dunn hit .240+ again over a large sample size of ABs against both sides of the plate, OR if he could actually be part of a quality platoon without noticeably suffering in his stats vs. RHP given the extra time on the bench & seeing less live pitching. I'd eat chocolate regardless!

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Mar 17, 2014 -> 01:36 PM) That's fair. Dunn has no chance in hell at 50HR & Viciedo probably has no chance at superstardom. Dunn does have a chance at a mostly empty and very low batting average & some HRs in the 30ish range with a whole massive f***load of otherwise pissed away PA to go with it. Viciedo OTOH has a chance to at least be a useful offensive player, but doesn't walk enough and isn't athletic enough to be a star. Yeah but if we're talking about literally eating poo, it needs to be reserved for the extremes.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Mar 17, 2014 -> 01:21 PM) And so then what will you do if he does the same s*** he's done here for 3 years, and the Sox get nothing, and end up taking PA from players who would benefit more? What do you do then? Huh? Huh? What do you do then Mr Eminor3D? I'm eating a turd sandwich if Viciedo turns into a superstar.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 17, 2014 -> 02:14 PM) So they will need one in a week? Precisely. Well, then they have Jackie Bradley Jr., whom is in line to lose his job to Grady if the fluff pieces were actually real things.