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QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 25, 2013 -> 08:18 PM) No, he has a nice arm. He's way back on the M's depth chart & should be available. for sure Dunn will bring back nothing much even if you eat his salary. DeAza probably gets you 1-2 prospects/projects. Noesi + something else for DeAza, Noesi straight up for Dunn and lots of cash, I do those moves for sure. Coop project. I threw in other pitching because I'd like to see some more arms come back but I don't know what they'd have available. SEA has some interesting bust type position players but they all look like either arb eligible or nearly arb eligible, meaning they've got a year basically to show something. That Franklin guy everyone here talks about, he seems like he'd bring back a much better player for Seattle than either Dunn or DeAza, and I assume that's about all we have to trade that they'd want, unless we want to talk Viciedo (I wouldn't). I see what you mean -- Dunn as negative value. I think I'd agree with this in a different year, but since the payroll isn't really an issue, I'd rather maximize the value of De Aza rather than worry about getting Dunn off the roster.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 25, 2013 -> 01:28 PM) I see no reason why Hector Noesi of the Mariners shouldn't be available, nor any reason Hahn shouldn't look into him. The Mariners could use DeAza in the OF IMO & maybe Dunn some in the DH slot. DeAza + Dunn + tons of cash for Noesi and some other pitching maybe? I'd love to see the Sox pull some arms out of that org. Noesi would be a nice #5 and add righty balance with potential to far exceed that. Are you confusing Noesi with someone else?

QUOTE (bear_brian @ Dec 24, 2013 -> 01:41 PM) Before you make any more illiterate statements, here are the facts on Beckham last year: 1. Played the first 7 games of the season and was hitting .316 when he broke the hamate bone in his wrist. Was put on the DL, had surgery and did not play again until June 3rd. 2. From June 3rd through July 26th he raised his average to .320. On July 26th he aggravated the same wrist, but began to play through the pain. He was still hitting over .300 (.310) on August 15th, when he suffered a quad strain. 3. From that point on, his average began to drop, and he was absolutely awful in September. Maybe you see something different than real baseball fans, but Beckham was having a breakout season last year before he aggravated the wrist and suffered the quad strain. Ventura said Beckham was "hurting" most of the year. There are many things to dislike about the 2012 White Sox, but Gordon Beckham's efforts to continue playing while suffereing from two separate injuries should not be one of them. It's ironic you're calling someone "illiterate" and "not a real baseball fan" and then trying to make a believable argument by citing nothing but batting average over the course of less than 30 games, rofl.

Beckham is a bust. His upside is an average Major Leaguer at this point. I hope he gets there.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 23, 2013 -> 02:16 PM) Nice call Noice! Missed on Sebastian Valle though. I like this move -- like I mentioned in the original post, this makes losing Hector Santiago a lot easier to stomach.

Rallies. Huh, I forgot what those were. Man, those felt good.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 20, 2013 -> 11:47 AM) Jesus, you forget everything, what the hell is wrong with you? I can't remember

Well, so much for this idea. Phillies announced that we cleared waivers. So strange -- there's obviously more to claiming players than I am aware of.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 20, 2013 -> 11:01 AM) Do you consider Downs and Surkamp an upgrade over Heath and Morel? At least those two have a purpose within the system, which is more than you can say about Morel and Heath. Oh god, I forgot Morel is still on the 40 man

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 20, 2013 -> 10:32 AM) Don't get all defensive. My point was that any stats (traditional or advanced) aren't always the best indicator of how a player or team will perform in the future. As I said, I understand why the stats are looked, and I admit my lesser knowledge of them. The 2014 White Sox are going to look very different compared to the 2013 Sox. If you compare the teams on paper before their respective seasons, most people (statniks and casual fans alike) would say the 2013 team would perform better. Now, I doubt there's anyone that is going to say that the 2014 Sox will perform worse than the 2013 Sox. There's something to be said for injecting youth into a team, and changes in venue, and other factors (personal - I'm looking at you Keppinger and Alexei) that affect player's and team's performance. And I'm on this board, like you, to talk about my favorite baseball team. I never said I didn't want to talk about what has happened and what will happen. Quite the opposite, actually, if you go back and read my original post. I was just pointing out that stats aren't always the best indicators. There are other factors, and one of the biggest factors for the 2014 Sox is the number of changes. Sorry

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 20, 2013 -> 10:29 AM) That would mean they would need to open up two roster spots when you include the Downs signing. Good point. Zero sum game.

Giants just DFA'd Eric Surkamp, which seems really strange: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/12/gian...assignment.html He's been beat up in the Majors, but he's only pitched 28 innings. Seems like a really nice controllable depth piece -- he's dominated the minors, after all. But he's a 26 yo lefty, and young lefties are something we have. I sort of think the more depth and competition, the merrier. Would be a nice way to replace Hector Santiago for next to nothing, no?

Standing in the way of your employees' opportunities to make money is not a good long-term strategy for a business. Holding him for another year is asking him to put his future career and earnings at risk. Poor taste, bad for morale.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 20, 2013 -> 07:40 AM) Threads like this are always entertaining. They are filled with opinions and conjecture and arguments, and in the end we all know that how a team looks on paper doesn't always translate to actual performance. Yes, this is why we are on this board. QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 20, 2013 -> 07:40 AM) And in my opinion, the advanced stats make it worse. In every thread that talks about the future or potential is riddled with acronyms like WAR, bWAR, UZR, FART, etc. To many fans, myself included, the advanced stats don't mean much. Don't get me wrong, I understand their usefulness. But, often enough, the advanced stats don't end up being good indicators of how a team/player will perform in the future. In the end, a post saying "they're just not good enough" may be as accurate as a post that looks like a college thesis. The advanced stats don't make anything worse. If you think advanced stats are bad for discussion because they can't predict the future with 100% accuracy, then you must also think that traditional stats are bad for discussion. Because they predict the future with even less accuracy. I don't get it. If you don't want to discuss what has happened with our team and what we think will happen with our team, what are you doing here on the board?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 20, 2013 -> 08:04 AM) With all the caveats said though...that low number for Eaton does mean that he didn't tear CF apart when he was out there. He could rapidly improve, that number could be dominated by a few mistakes...but it's not 100% useless. Correct. It isn't that UZR isn't "accurate" at small sample sizes, it's that it isn't "predictive" at small sample sizes.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Dec 19, 2013 -> 06:49 PM) I see, thanks guys. What about defensive WAR? Defensive WAR is calculated using UZR

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 19, 2013 -> 04:22 PM) The biggest area of concern is not enough quality innings from the starters. I think there are a TON of unknowns on this team -- I'd put Sp, bullpen, offense, and defense as equally concerning. Lots of new players, lots of guys expected to bounce back to some degree. It's really a huge unknown.

It CAN contend. It just probably won't. But there's a chance, and that'll make it fun to watch. Better still, you'll be able to enjoy it knowing that the team on the field is going to keep getting better instead of falling off a cliff as a last hurrah like last year. Next year is going to be a better year for the fans, very little doubt in my mind.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 12:58 AM) Japanese pitchers tend to do better outside of the spotlight. Irabu ended up killing himself, Igawa was a disaster in NY, Hideo Nomo was successful for a couple of seasons until hitters figured him out. Then you have the Dice-K fiasco. The under-the-radar guys like Iwakuma with the Mariners have tended to fare better. Of course, it helps to pitch at Safeco or in the NL West. Kuroda's been decent, but the only contract that has worked out (so far) was Darvish, and it's not like he's single-handedly led the Rangers back to the promised land, either. One thing he has done was improve...instead of starting off well and then nosediving or getting injured. There's not anywhere near enough of a track record to make a generalization like that.

http://www.fangraphs.com/not/gavin-floyd-m...vyawn-floyawnd/

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 06:05 PM) I thought he improved a bit in the 2nd half, but definitely a work in progress. Until the Morneau deal, I thought they might move him to 1B, but it seems the Rockies believe he can be adequate. The bat will play somewhere. Indeed, but with our roster, we really, really need it to play at C

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 05:45 PM) Looking at Javy's WAR numbers versus what we all saw in his performance will make one question the very concept of WAR. I happen to think the FG method overvalues/assumes luck a bit too much, and that the "truest" performance evaluation is somewhere in the middle. It is, and they adamantly and frequently admit that. But it is the most accurate system that exists currently; there are fewer outliers like Javy Vazquez than exist with others.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 04:30 PM) What's the consensus here? If we had to pick one, Grandal or Rosario? Grandal for me. Lots of new attempts at measuring C defense have rated Rosario as either one of, or in some cases, the absolute worst defensive C in baseball.

It's difficult to argue that the Sox shouldn't be heavily involved in due diligence for Tanaka. He should be considered an option. Whether or not they choose to enter the bidding depends ENTIRELY on their internal assessment of his abilities and upside -- an assessment to which we have no insight and which may or may not be completely different from public or even internal club consensus. If they don't get him, it won't necessarily be because they didn't think they had the payroll space.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 10:00 PM) I'm really starting to like the idea of Jason Castro. A solid left handed catcher that could hit too all fields and good defensively. What would Sox have to give up to get him? There's just absolutely no reason for the Astros to move him. He is the thing they need the most -- an MLB-ready building block with several years of team control.