Eminor3rd

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 12, 2013 -> 03:10 PM) This. You'd think they would have learned by now how much it sucks to have a low average, power or nothing, left-handed hitter, let alone just adding one for the f*** of it. Purchased at the beginning of his decline at the cost of a draft pick and to the detriment of their OF defense, assuming they'd "veteran entitlement" him into CF all year.

Cafardo: Here's something that is only interesting if it implies that the Sox are interested in AJ. But don't take it as implying the Sox are interested in AJ.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 12, 2013 -> 02:58 PM) I am not sold on Castro enough to give up anything like that package. Santiago for him straight up, perhaps, more than that is iffy give he has had one good season. I would rather have Dionar Navarro at this juncture because at least I know what I am getting and signing him doesn't deplete the roster at all. He's only had one good season but it was his first full season. We need young upside, right? BABIP was high but not insanely high. 10% walk rate! What makes Santiago more valuable? He's had one good season that had all kinds of signs of unsustainable success.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 12, 2013 -> 02:44 PM) I wouldn't even go this high. Again, Castro's a nice player, but what's really his peak? I personally think it's about what he put up this year, with him more likely to be a 2-3 WAR player. This is not a guy I am going to spend a ton on because right now, he's probably the difference between like 73 and 75 wins, and this isn't including the possibility that Flowers and/or Phegley come out and actually produce this year. I am willing to overlook Phegley's numbers to some extent as he was trying to learn the pitching staff, but I think he can be a relatively productive player too. I like Castro, but I think my offer starts with Santiago and we can maybe work from there. If that's not enough, then that's fine. 26 year old pre-arb ~3.5 WAR catcher! I say pay up. Solves such a huge problem for us for years without giving up a ton of money.

I'd go as high as Santiago + Hawkins + Webb. Controllable above average left-handed hitting catchers? Give it up.

I'm giving Hahn the benefit of the doubt here -- this would be just too stupid a move to be realistic.

QUOTE (Jake @ Nov 12, 2013 -> 12:02 PM) I still wonder how other teams view Santiago. It very well may be the case that some see him as the better value. Better than Quintana? Do you mean better relative to the cost?

QUOTE (dayan024 @ Nov 12, 2013 -> 10:37 AM) Bleacher Report Whitesox Holy crap that would be a BOON to get Lucroy for that offer.

QUOTE (JoshPR @ Nov 12, 2013 -> 10:46 AM) Who is vic? Viciedo?

QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Nov 12, 2013 -> 10:39 AM) The catcher that I'd love for the sox to get is Yan Gomes but yea it's not going to happen. Gomes is nice, but I'd much rather have Castro. I just don't see any reason for the Astros to move him and I don;t see any way where we'd come up with the best offer even if they did.

QUOTE (dayan024 @ Nov 12, 2013 -> 10:32 AM) Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS 10m teams are showing significant interest in #astros catcher jason castro. but would they move him? http://cbsprt.co/16YW46U Wonder if the Whitesox could be in on him does a beckham for castro trade make sense or a santiago for castro trade?? Castro >>>> Beckham Santiago won't be enough because another team will offer more. Castro just had a hell of a breakout season, he'd be in high demand.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 11, 2013 -> 04:34 PM) Viciedo was injured and missed nearly a 1/4 of the season. He was also a 24 year old in only his second full year. I respect your opinion and thought process on most topics, but I think you're way off on Viciedo. I was really optimistic about Viciedo going into last year because I thought that he looked like he was really trying to make some adjustments at the end of 2012. 2013, however, seemed like the opposite to me. I'm not worried about his power or his HR totals, I'm worried about the fact that he is, as of right now, totally a guess hitter whose contact ability isn't as good as I used to think. To my admittedly untrained eye, it didn't look like health was the problem. But I certainly hope I'm wrong! I would love for you to be able to give me an "I told you so" post about Viciedo this time next year

Laurila interviews Semien: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/qa-marcus-s...field-prospect/

I think Engel is going to be this year's big riser. I think this because the editor in chief of baseball America is really high on him.

Craziest thing about this list is Abreu. I get that you can consider him a prospect, but if you do, how is he not #1?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 12, 2013 -> 09:16 AM) It should be noted, it was specifically stated during the Abreu signing news that the Sox were able to do that in part because of the 2013 mid-year trades they made. That makes me think the signing bonus may have come from that budgeted money. So I am not sure that $10M is part of that $85M number, and in fact I'd say it is likely not. Here is what I show for the payroll right now: UNDER CONTRACT 2014: Dunn 15 Danks 14.25 Ramirez 9.5 Abreu 7 Keppinger 4 Lindstrom 4 (I believe they took his option, yes?) Sale 3.5 ...TOTAL: 57.25 ARB ELIGIBLE: Viciedo Beckham De Aza Flowers ...ESTIMATED TOTAL: 12 (if all are signed) ALL ELSE: Assuming all above are signed and kept, need to fill 14 slots at near league minimum, that makes about $8M ...ESTIMATED TOTAL: 8 --That makes the total payroll as it looks today to be 77.25M. That leaves 8M of headroom, and that is assuming they go for ALL those arb eligible guys, and don't trade anyone. Why are people panicking? What am I missing here? I don't think those four arb guys are going to average $4m each, are they? There's no way Flowers is going to be there, and I don't think Viciedo will either.

Sometimes I think our fanbase actually WANTS sustained mediocrity.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 11, 2013 -> 05:45 PM) I can't believe people are surprised by that number. Maybe they're surprised that we're already close to it. As far as a projected payroll budget, I think it's extremely reasonable.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 11, 2013 -> 04:48 PM) The thing I keep coming back to is that signing a guy like AJ who is going to play almost every day actually gets in the way of finding a long-term solution. Right now the only guys we have who might be long-term solutions are Phegley and Flowers. Sign AJ and you release one of them and the other one gets 150 PA's this year while burning a pre-arb year. Yeah based on last year there's a good chance neither of them become starters, but if they get 150 PA's next year I'd say that kills any chance of that happening. From there you either spend the money on another stopgap or you spend the money on a long-term option. You've basically killed our chances of having an in-house option if you sign an AJ. Maybe you do that if your scouts tell you both Phegley and Flowers are backups...but in that case, it sure would make more sense to me to go after the catchers currently on the market who would be multi-year solutions. Yes, I agree with this 100%

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 11, 2013 -> 04:19 PM) But if AJ plays like he has the last 2 seasons, he helps the team. Suzuki would have to not only bounce back for one season, but several. Odds of that happening IMO are smaller than AJ being a regular catcher at 38 or 39. Plus the sox want to be better next year. AJ buys them a year to find a more permanent solution. Yeah, I mean I'm not saying Suzuki wouldn't be close to the last possible resort, I'm just trying to illustrate, in general, that I'd favor upside over one-year stopgaps at almost all costs. It's possible that Suzuki, specifically, is too cooked to have a real shot at being a better option than anyone, and is thus a bad example for me to have chosen. Separately, I think AJ's contribution are a bit overrated, in terms of his performance. As far as intangibles, maybe that's worth more (or less), it's hard to tell.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 11, 2013 -> 03:58 PM) Where else would it go to? I would guess they would budget it evenly over the life of the contract. Otherwise, I would assume that they'd report the contract breakdown as $17m, $11m, etc. instead of the way I've seen it reported. I'm not saying that's NOT how they are counting it, I just don't think it's safe to assume it unless we've heard it confirmed.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 11, 2013 -> 03:55 PM) Kurt Suzuki? Really? Than AJP, yes. Because if he bounces back, he's young enough to actually help our team.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 11, 2013 -> 03:54 PM) 2) He also hit 24 or 25 or whatever the number was his rookie season. He missed 3-4 weeks of time this season due to injury. It was a down season, and there's really no reason for a corner guy not to hit at least 20....but if you told Hahn right now Viciedo wasn't going to hit mid 20's in 2014, he'd probably give up on him. Rios and Viciedo are/were legit 20+ homer guys. Garcia's SUPPOSED to be, when he matures. Power isn't completely irrelevant. (1) No one is saying that power is irrelevant, just that you/we need to adjust our frame of reference for how much of it is available. 15-18 HR is moderate to decent power these days. Again, there aren't enough 20 HR outfielders for each team to even have one. (2) Viciedo is only a legit 20+ HR guy if he becomes a better hitter. When he hit 25 in his rookie season, he did NOTHING else well, which is a pretty good indicator that the 25 wasn't sustainable. There's no doubt he has the power tool, but there is a lot of doubt that he has the skill to be a true-talent power hitter. (3) If a team needs "power," it doesn't matter where the team gets it. It's just nice to build a frame of reference for what you can expect to find from a particular position. There may be truth to the statement that a team will have great difficulty winning without a few reliable power sources on the field, but it isn't true at all to say that a team can't win without x homers from y positions

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 11, 2013 -> 03:41 PM) Then you don't have enough power. You can't have 2/3rd's for your outfield hitting 15-18 homers unless you're playing in a huge stadium. (1) Says who? Steroid era position paradigms are long-gone. Only 24 OFers in the entire Majors even reached 20 HR last year. There isn't even one 20+ HR outfielder available per team. (2) Viciedo hit 14 last year. The problem with power is that you have to make contact for it to matter.

I'd give up Viciedo straight up. I would. ADA to LF, Span to CF. I think Span bounces back and our defense improves immensely. Span is better suited as a leadoff hitter and ADA is better suited as a 6 or 7 hitter. I'd give him a Mark Teahen-esque extension too -- get a discount hoping that he improves