Eminor3rd

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 7, 2013 -> 04:22 PM) Is that KW or Hahn? Yeah, who knows. I have to lay the burden of the final say on Hahn, though, even if it's KW or someone else feeding him the recommendations. At some point, you have to look around and see that the plan isn't working out, you know?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 7, 2013 -> 04:00 PM) Given that Hahn was reportedly asking for Makiel Franco at the deadline for De Aza, I think he is aware of his potential value to other teams as well. I'm not certain what we'll see yet. Frankly, as was mentioned previously, we could see the Sox bring AJ back again. He WOULD want Maikel Franco, lol. What the **** is up this organization's obsession with guys that rip up the minors by swinging at everything and destroy inferior pitching?

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Oct 7, 2013 -> 03:46 PM) He could play left and move Tank to 1B/DH. Or Garcia to CF if it's thought he'd be better there than De Aza. Dodgers obviously have to unload him or Crawford. Yeah, we could find a way to make it work, but the upgrade of Grand/Ethier from De Aza/Viciedo is much less than FLowers/Phegley to McCann, for example. I just mean that a corner OF is not our biggest problem.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Oct 6, 2013 -> 09:47 PM) Abreu is obviously the hope but I would definitely buy low on Corey Hart before I buy high on Loney.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Oct 7, 2013 -> 03:22 PM) Does anyone think we might target Ethier from the Dodgers. I'd rather have him than Granderson. I really don't think we need a right fielder.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 7, 2013 -> 02:57 PM) One thing worth pointing out: fWAR: Alejandro De Aza, 2012 and 2013: 2.7 and 2.2 Curtis Granderson, same years: 2.3 and 1.4 (Granderson had 245 PA's in 2013 if you'd like to project to a full season). bWAR: De Aza: 2.3, -0.3 Granderson: 3.0, 1.1. Yes, Granderson has much better years prior to the last 2 and he outperformed De Aza last year during his time on the field. However, over the last 2 years, the difference has been at best narrow. He's not going to be a defensive upgrade and he's going to be a slight downgrade on the basepaths. Only saying this since it seems some people think letting De Aza go for very little or nothing is a good idea. The player you'd get by signing Granderson stands a good chance of being comparable to De Aza for the next couple years. That's not a bad thing, that's more than a $10 million player, but that is why you have to get fair value for ADA. Great post. Best case (Granderson bounces back from injury and doesn't continue his decline), you're getting a small upgrade from De Aza. It isn't quite marginal, but it would be a poor allocation of a bunch of money. We have much bigger holes to fill.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 7, 2013 -> 03:10 PM) OPS+ is also on a pretty marked decline 135 in 2008 to 115 in 2013, even throwing out the 2012 87 as an injury thing. OPS is a much inferior statistic to RC, which precisely weighs on-base skills and slugging.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 7, 2013 -> 02:49 PM) Except he didn't bounce back to his career norms. If you throw out 2012 as an aberration, you still have 4 straight years of OPS drops since his career high of 2008. WAR and oWar have also been on a pretty steady decline. dWar was 0.1 from a career low. BA, SLG, OPB are also on a steady decline. No reason to think these trends won't continue, and probably they will accelerate. QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Oct 7, 2013 -> 02:53 PM) How much of that is in line with league wide drops in offensive production? I'm not an advocate of signing him. Just sayin... Excellent point by TaylorStSox, this is EXACTLY why you look at wRC+, which is league adjusted every year. McCann's career wRC+ is 117. His 2013 wRC+ is 122, and that's despite a BABIP 32 points below his career average. This is definitely not a sign of decline.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Oct 7, 2013 -> 02:32 PM) When talking DH I'd rather have Granderson over McCann. 2010-2012 stats Granderson- .247/.337/.506 McCann- .252/.329/.441 McCann's 2012 was a shoulder surgery season and is way out line with his other career numbers. That' simportant information, but his 2013 proved that he has bounced back. Granderson is older and very clearly declining, and if he signed hium, we'd be the team gambling on his ability to return to form after injury.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 7, 2013 -> 02:08 PM) McCann is a 29 year old catcher. There is a big difference between that and anything else at 29 years old. If he isn't catching, his value drops a ton if he goes to 1B or DH. That is especially important when you are talking about a guy that played 102 games this year, and hasn't played 130 in the last 3 years. It isn't like we are talking about a guy who has AJ's durability here. In all honesty, I would rather give AJ a one year deal than to give McCann 5. His absolute value drops, yes, but his value to an organization with literally nothing serviceable at those positions is much higher.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 7, 2013 -> 01:56 PM) McCann put up a line that looks like Conor Gillaspie in 2012. Even his bounce back year this year was the worst of McCann career since 2007. Granderson's year at least makes sense due to his wrist injuries. If you are willing to commit 5 years plus a lot of money to McCann, questions about McCann's direction are probably more valid, especially because catchers have more miles on them than OFs due. Odds are pretty good that McCann gets at least double, if not more, of the total dollars commitment than Granderson gets, and Granderson's deal would be shorter. There is a pretty good chance McCann is in his regression years right now. McCann is three years younger, and just put up a 122 wRC+, which is in line with his career numbers minus his one down year, off of a .261 BABIP, which is substantially lower than his career standard. If he can repeat this year with a normalized BABIP, we're talking about something in the neighborhood of ~.270/~.350./~470, which is just so much better than what Granderson is likely top put up, especially on a team that is starving for OBP. Add to this that McCann should be able to play C for at least a couple years -- filling a huge hole for us rather than creating a logjam. Granderson's latest injuries were HBP injries, yes, but they were also wrist injuries, which have a track record of permanently sapping power from guys in many cases. Flukes they may be, but flukes that often come with real costs. You're right though, it all comes down to price. But I'd be just fine giving 29 year old McCann 5 years if the alternative was giving 32 year old Granderson 3 or 4.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 7, 2013 -> 01:13 PM) If 1B/DH is open for McCann, for 3 years or so, why wouldn't it be open for Granderson? It would be, but McCann would be much better there. He's younger and a better hitter. Granderson, again, looks a lot like Dunn at the plate.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 7, 2013 -> 12:18 PM) This was Viciedo and Rizzo. Just looking at splits, here's Rizzo over his last 1058 - .251/.330/.435/.765 And here's Viciedo over his alst 1016 - .260/.302/.436/.738 Yeah, I'm not saying Rizzo is lighting the world up, but there is absolutely no argument that he hasn't outperformed Viciedo. Not by a landslide, but by enough that there's a significant difference.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 7, 2013 -> 11:18 AM) 3 years at $12 to $15 million makes sense for the White Sox. They get a lefty power guy, and a guy at a "discount". I could see an off season consisting of that and Abreu for 1B as its main parts. I just can't see them committing 5 years to a catcher, especially at that money. Thing about McCann though is that you only need him to catch for a couple years. The 1B/DH spot is waiting and open for him after Dunn and Konerko leave. If he is able to catch longer, that's a bonus, but he's at least a complete hitter from the left side, I wouldn't mind him clogging up a corner for a few years considering what the alternatives are. Granderson's numbers are starting to look a LOT like Dunn's are looking, and he's no longer really capable of playing CF. You'd need to stick him in RF, which pigeonholes Garcia in CF, where I've seen absolutely no indication that he is capable of playing there. He has the tools, sure, but his instincts in the OF are some of the worst I've seen in a long time. He'll get better with practice, but I'm not confident he'll get enough better to be a long-term CF.

I am wholeheartedly against this.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 6, 2013 -> 11:52 AM) And Puig has one of the three worst swing and miss percentages in the majors...he's doomed, too? No, Puig is hitting. Viciedo is not and never really has. There is always an exceptional guy or two here or there that can hit everything, but Viciedo clearly isn't one of them.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 6, 2013 -> 10:51 AM) Yet Viciedo is still out producing the golden boy. No he's not, lol. How is he outproducing him?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 4, 2013 -> 10:37 PM) And guess who has the higher career OPS yet is considered a bust. And guess which one has demonstrated he has a clue at the plate. And can make contact regularly. Oh, wait, that's definitely NOT Viciedo. MLB Averages: O-Swing = 31.0%, Z-Swing = 65.5%, Z-Contact = 87.0% Anthony Rizzo: O-Swing = 30.0%, Z-Swing = 66.5%, Z-Contact = 89.1% (102 wRC+) Dayan Viciedo: O-Swing = 42.5%, Z-Swing = 73.5%, Z-Contact = 82.9% (96 wRC+) One of those lines looks like a Major League hitter, the other looks like a minor leaguer being challenged by stuff way above his skill level.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 04:11 PM) That's a lot of high K% rates. Our trademark

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Oct 3, 2013 -> 05:07 PM) I'd put the Mets and Giants with those 5 to make it 7. And now the Marlins: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/10/marl...riel-abreu.html

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 3, 2013 -> 04:05 PM) None of these Sox players came up through the system and learned how to win and play the game the right way fundamentally...as a group. No offense intended, caulfield, but this "knowing how to win" thing is such garbage, IMO. Guys that don't have the balls to perform under pressure and/or don't do what their coaches ask them don't stick in the Majors. The fact is that event sequencing is impossible for individual players to control in baseball, so everyone has to just do their part and hope that the team performs the rest. It makes causality hard to determine, but "good guys" don't will wins into existence with their attitudes. team chemistry is something, but I don't think you can pick guys that haven't wound up winning teams and conclude that they are bad for chemistry.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 06:24 PM) For the first little bit of Contreras' White Sox career, and when El Duque was here, I was starting to wonder if it was a rule in Cuba that the count must reach 3 and 2 with every batter. Haha yeah. It seemed like Darvish went through a similar thing, where he needed to adjust to the overall better plate discipline of the MLB compared to the NPB. For the first year he throw nothing in the zone and walked WAY too many batters. But then he realized his stuff was good enough to get strikes in the zone too, and now he's amazing.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 10:01 PM) DeAza is another guy who tends to annoy. 675 plate appearances this year and 147 strikeouts? Just 50 walks for a leadoff hitter. 20 stolen bases and caught 8 times. 17 homers and 62 ribbies. His extended two-year tryout has resulted in an average hitter. Because of all his blunders this year, I'd suggest he'll be shown the door with Tank and A. Garcia 2/3 of the outfield and a newcomer taking over in center. The problem is that all those numbers you cited have him among the top two or three on the team. It's not so much that De Aza is great but that that almost every other player is way worse. And since De Aza is cost controlled and under market value (free agency tends to pay ~$5m per WAR), you'd be nuts not to keep him and spend your time and money upgrading everywhere else.

lol

QUOTE (ChiSoxFan05 @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 10:40 PM) Screw WAR, I'll take Markakis over Rasmus any day. Rasmus is too injury-prone and lacks defense. Markakis is solid all around Markakis, rofl. You'd take an 87 wRC+/-14.1 defender over a 130 wRC+/+12.1 defender who is several years younger?