Eminor3rd

QUOTE (spiderman @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 05:25 PM) How old is McCain? How many years would be smart for a catcher? I'm hesitant to go crazy on a catcher, I'm more in the camp of signing somebody who can play defense. 29. I think you sign him assuming he can only catch healthy for a couple more years, then becomes a 1B/DH. Fortunately, that timeline is great for the White Sox, who will be phasing out Konerko/Dunn and have absolutely nothing knocking on the door in the minors, save a shot in the dark with Wilkins.

Verducci effect has been disproved dozens of times now.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 04:13 PM) This is as good of a place as any for this... Gordo and Alexei lead their defensive positions in runs saved through double plays turned. http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/9/29/4782...-at-turning-two Beckham's arm is his plus tool at second. The range is solid, the gloves is solid. He's a slightly above average defender, but not nearly good enough to justify the bat. You don't cut him by any means, but you don't let him stand in the way of someone better. To me, we have enough old-ish MI prospects that someone needs to move out of the way. Ideally, you move the aging Ramirez, but if there's no deal there, I say a strong spring training from Semien or Garcia should relegate Beckham to a part-time role or DFA.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 03:22 PM) I'm kinda surprised there isn't anyone giving Beckham the benefit of the doubt. I mean he was batting in the .320s before his wrist flared up in July. I'm not saying I'm not down with replacing him with Semien I'm just surprised to see no one make this point. There's certainly a case to be made for Gordons return. He's had 5 years. The guy is bound to have a hot month or two in there, but the trend is clear.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 04:54 PM) And productive is the exact word I used in my original comment... And I too would rather have an 81-83 win team talent wise GOING IN TO THE YEAR than a 73-75 win team talent wise. My philosophy about wanting 1) a good team then 2) a bad team then 3) an average team is referring to the result at the end of the season. You never want to END UP with an average season. You can surely go in to the year being average, experience luck, a trade, injuries to opponents, rookies being called up, career years, whatever, and become a contender like the 2012 White Sox, but I am saying by the end of October, the worst thing you could have had was an average season. I disagree. There aren't many cases of "first to worst." They happens sometimes, but most of the time team's need to get decent before they get good. Next year, for example, I'd be plenty happy with 75 wins if I feel like team came by them via legitimate, sustainable improvement. That means we're moving in the right direction and can keep getting better.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 02:52 PM) I think that is because of the type of hitters they are, not because Jeff Manto says do this do that. Manto actually preached contact. You wouldn't know it watching them hit. Thinking he's saying go up there, make sure you don't walk and swing as hard as you can in case you hit it is just not the truth. People erroneously thought Walker preached that as well. Remember the old "lift and pull"? I think Semien will be better, but not because they are changing hitting coaches. Hopefully he becomes a star and gives the new guy all the credit. I don't really care about walk rates as long as a guy is swinging a good pitches to hit, the only thing being if you generally are only swinging at decent pitches to hit, you most likely are going to walk a fair share of time. There have been a couple of exceptions, and the Sox are probably pinning a lot of their hopes on Garcia who probably is going to have to be an exception. Agree 100% with the bolded. I actually am not even worried about the team's strikeout problem, it's the contact with bad pitches that gets me. And that's what I didn't like about Manto -- he seemed to be in the "expand the zone to drive in runs" school that is led by Harold Reynolds. The only time that ever makes sense is if you're TRYING to make a productive out like a sac fly or a grounder to the right side. "Run producers" should be looking to rip doubles, and you need to be selective to do that with regularity.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 02:38 PM) This. There is no one in the system right now that should be untouchable. Not even close. Agreed 100%. Our best guys are still flawed guys.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 02:34 PM) It seems every White Sox prospect has 0 or 1 walks and 20+ strikeouts their first 70 ABs in the major leagues. I still don't know how you pin that on the major league hitting coach. He isn't going to be changing their approach immediately. Guys are overmatched. They are facing better pitchers than they have in the past, plus they are probably trying to show they are worthy and being a little or far too aggressive. Hopefully, Semien settles down and becomes a good hitter at the major league level. The point is that the entire White Sox roster -- save Adam Dunn, who had a disastrous early season bout of "humility" inspired by Sox coaches -- is full of dudes that swing at bad pitches and get themselves out. So while you're right that Semien's example may not be damning evidence, but it fits with the overarching trend, and that trend is a bad one.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 11:53 AM) C'mon. Semien was not striking out more and walking less at the major league level because he was listening to the hitting coach, and the entire Manto mantra was taken way out of context. He mentioned in a radio interview he would rather Adam Dunn swing at a pitch a little out of the zone vs. Verlander with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 with the infield back, than take a pitch and walk figuring there was a better chance at runs. Manto also emphasized contact. The problem is, you need players who can make contact. I don't know if Manto was any good or not. But if you blame him for Semien, you probably should blame him for everyone else, therefore, the Sox offense should be fine next year. I don't blame him for the results, but I do blame him for the approach. Because practically every player on the team has a hitting approach that stops working around the HS varsity level. And when you get a guy who has an extremely advanced approach come up and suddenly start swinging at everything, you can't help but wonder.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 01:57 PM) Trading Santiago weakens your pitching staff to the point where it is no longer a strength. It doesn't make sense. You'd have Sale, Q and then a bunch of guys who may or may not be able to stick in a MLB rotation. Not to mention it kills depth which everyone watching this year should know you need. We lost 60% of our opening day rotation this season. Floyd and Peavy to injury (then Peavy traded) and Axelrod to ineffectiveness. No one should ever go into a season with just two known quantities in the rotation and expect to compete. Trading Peavy did that -- I'm not sure that Santiago is that big of a deal. He had a nice ERA, but his peripherals suggest he's more of a 4.25 ERA guy, and if that's what we have to move to upgrade somewhere else, we shouldn't hesitate. Another way to look at it -- the pitching was a strength all year, and we lost 100 games. I'll take a more average staff if it means not having a league worst-esque offense and defense.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 12:23 PM) He put up a 3.56 era in te Cell in 150 innings and that's with being jerked from the pen to the rotation for 2 years and tiring at the end. For guys with 100+ innings that puts him 64th out of 150+ pitchers. He had a similar ERa to Cole Hamels and slightly worse than Verlander who pitches in an easier ballpark. If he's a teams number 4 starter then they've got a great shot at a World Series because that team has 4 #1-2 starters. He was a solid number 3 this year and that's only because of the bullpen/innings bullplop we do. If he only has te value of a number 4 starter then trading him is crazy because he's already better than that. Everything wite said + remember that part of a season pitching in relief actually tends to drag your ERA downward. His FIP/xFIP were both well over four, and his HR/FB was rather low for a guy pitching at the Cell, and we haven't seen nearly enough of Hector to expect that he has the exceptionally rare skill to suppress homeruns on fly balls. When you look past the ERA, you see a much different pitcher, and any team that wants to acquire Hector will be doing just that.

QUOTE (Hawkfan @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 01:23 PM) And I thought the end of the season might create a topic change for once... Why? lol

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 11:41 AM) 3B IMO is a bigger problem than first base. We have a guy at 3B who could play for one team in baseball apparently, ours, in Gillaspie. If I had to pick one thing, it'd be having Dunn retire. If you give me five things, 1.) Dunn please retire. 2.) Get rid of Kepp/Gillaspie and let Semien play third if we can't get a free agent. 3.) Get a new CF and get rid of DeAza. 4.) Get a new 2B and get rid of Beckham. 5.) New catcher. I think you just explained why first is a bigger priority, though. Even if you cut the two-headed Jonnor Gilleppinger, you have some interesting options from the minor league ranks to fill in. First base, on the other hand, is a black hole for years to come, especially if you want to dump Dunn. And while it's easier to acquire a first basemen that can hit a bit, that means that when don't have one, you are missing a major piece of offense.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 11:38 AM) That's just alarming! Somebody should bring that stat to Soxfest this year. I mean, totally unacceptable. Thank goodness Manto got fired for this horrific offense. Yeah, I mean you can't put all that on Manto -- Semien wasn't going to be able to rake ML just like he did AA. But it's difficult to justify a hitting coach that believes in free-swinging when your team just lost 100 games chock full of free swingers. And you can bet Semien was taking direction from Manto as he was trying to adjust. The result, so far, has been a completely different player. Small sample, of course.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 11:25 AM) His comments when hired should have gotten him fired the next day. He was not a believer in OBP and as such they are where they are. Agreed. At least they dumped him before he could permanently damaged Garcia/Semien. Semien walk rate in AA: 17.4%. Result: League MVP Semien walk rate in ML: 1.4% Result: .261./268/.405

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 09:44 AM) Judging by the rest of the Sox roster, finding average Major Leaguers is a lot harder than it seems. Exactly! Didn't mean to imply that I think average is bad. I'm arguing that we need him.

Thank you. Probably not much chance at bringing in someone who preaches patience, but at least we have a shot now.

My point is that I think Santiago is overrated by us. Not valueless, but a controllable #4 starter is not going to bring back something exciting. Useful, yes. Trumbo is probably a good fit, realistically, but he's way overrated because of his homers. I think the perceived value of Trumbo is much higher than his actual value, and Santiago isn't enough to get him. Certainly not Trumbo+

This is the key quotation, IMO:

Sign Abreu. No Morales.

De Aza works out to be an average Major Leaguer. Look at his numbers -- this year is no different. An average Major Leaguer at arbitration price on a team with 100 losses is nothing to shake a stick at. You guys are crazy.

You guys do realize Pence just had a great season, don't you?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 08:20 AM) If Sizemore gets anything more than a minor league contract, his agent will have succeeded greatly. Trumbo is a free swinging, low OBP right handed slugger. He has the kind of potential to hit 40+ homers, but he could just as easily turn into Mark Reynolds too. Santiago, on the other hand, has put up good numbers 2 years in a row, including very good numbers this year. If the Angels declined that trade, then you walk away because you aren't dealing with a sane organization. Hector just put up a 1.5 WAR season, Trumbo just put up a 2.5 WAR season.

I hate this season. This f***ing team has done nothing but make my day worse all summer. I can't even relax and drink a beer and watch our f***ing ace throw a half decent game. Thank god these bums are almost done.

Dude, Garcia f***ing sucks at defense.