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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 11:53 AM) C'mon. Semien was not striking out more and walking less at the major league level because he was listening to the hitting coach, and the entire Manto mantra was taken way out of context. He mentioned in a radio interview he would rather Adam Dunn swing at a pitch a little out of the zone vs. Verlander with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 with the infield back, than take a pitch and walk figuring there was a better chance at runs. Manto also emphasized contact. The problem is, you need players who can make contact. I don't know if Manto was any good or not. But if you blame him for Semien, you probably should blame him for everyone else, therefore, the Sox offense should be fine next year. I don't blame him for the results, but I do blame him for the approach. Because practically every player on the team has a hitting approach that stops working around the HS varsity level. And when you get a guy who has an extremely advanced approach come up and suddenly start swinging at everything, you can't help but wonder.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 01:57 PM) Trading Santiago weakens your pitching staff to the point where it is no longer a strength. It doesn't make sense. You'd have Sale, Q and then a bunch of guys who may or may not be able to stick in a MLB rotation. Not to mention it kills depth which everyone watching this year should know you need. We lost 60% of our opening day rotation this season. Floyd and Peavy to injury (then Peavy traded) and Axelrod to ineffectiveness. No one should ever go into a season with just two known quantities in the rotation and expect to compete. Trading Peavy did that -- I'm not sure that Santiago is that big of a deal. He had a nice ERA, but his peripherals suggest he's more of a 4.25 ERA guy, and if that's what we have to move to upgrade somewhere else, we shouldn't hesitate. Another way to look at it -- the pitching was a strength all year, and we lost 100 games. I'll take a more average staff if it means not having a league worst-esque offense and defense.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 12:23 PM) He put up a 3.56 era in te Cell in 150 innings and that's with being jerked from the pen to the rotation for 2 years and tiring at the end. For guys with 100+ innings that puts him 64th out of 150+ pitchers. He had a similar ERa to Cole Hamels and slightly worse than Verlander who pitches in an easier ballpark. If he's a teams number 4 starter then they've got a great shot at a World Series because that team has 4 #1-2 starters. He was a solid number 3 this year and that's only because of the bullpen/innings bullplop we do. If he only has te value of a number 4 starter then trading him is crazy because he's already better than that. Everything wite said + remember that part of a season pitching in relief actually tends to drag your ERA downward. His FIP/xFIP were both well over four, and his HR/FB was rather low for a guy pitching at the Cell, and we haven't seen nearly enough of Hector to expect that he has the exceptionally rare skill to suppress homeruns on fly balls. When you look past the ERA, you see a much different pitcher, and any team that wants to acquire Hector will be doing just that.

QUOTE (Hawkfan @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 01:23 PM) And I thought the end of the season might create a topic change for once... Why? lol

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 11:41 AM) 3B IMO is a bigger problem than first base. We have a guy at 3B who could play for one team in baseball apparently, ours, in Gillaspie. If I had to pick one thing, it'd be having Dunn retire. If you give me five things, 1.) Dunn please retire. 2.) Get rid of Kepp/Gillaspie and let Semien play third if we can't get a free agent. 3.) Get a new CF and get rid of DeAza. 4.) Get a new 2B and get rid of Beckham. 5.) New catcher. I think you just explained why first is a bigger priority, though. Even if you cut the two-headed Jonnor Gilleppinger, you have some interesting options from the minor league ranks to fill in. First base, on the other hand, is a black hole for years to come, especially if you want to dump Dunn. And while it's easier to acquire a first basemen that can hit a bit, that means that when don't have one, you are missing a major piece of offense.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 11:38 AM) That's just alarming! Somebody should bring that stat to Soxfest this year. I mean, totally unacceptable. Thank goodness Manto got fired for this horrific offense. Yeah, I mean you can't put all that on Manto -- Semien wasn't going to be able to rake ML just like he did AA. But it's difficult to justify a hitting coach that believes in free-swinging when your team just lost 100 games chock full of free swingers. And you can bet Semien was taking direction from Manto as he was trying to adjust. The result, so far, has been a completely different player. Small sample, of course.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 11:25 AM) His comments when hired should have gotten him fired the next day. He was not a believer in OBP and as such they are where they are. Agreed. At least they dumped him before he could permanently damaged Garcia/Semien. Semien walk rate in AA: 17.4%. Result: League MVP Semien walk rate in ML: 1.4% Result: .261./268/.405

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 09:44 AM) Judging by the rest of the Sox roster, finding average Major Leaguers is a lot harder than it seems. Exactly! Didn't mean to imply that I think average is bad. I'm arguing that we need him.

Thank you. Probably not much chance at bringing in someone who preaches patience, but at least we have a shot now.

My point is that I think Santiago is overrated by us. Not valueless, but a controllable #4 starter is not going to bring back something exciting. Useful, yes. Trumbo is probably a good fit, realistically, but he's way overrated because of his homers. I think the perceived value of Trumbo is much higher than his actual value, and Santiago isn't enough to get him. Certainly not Trumbo+

This is the key quotation, IMO:

Sign Abreu. No Morales.

De Aza works out to be an average Major Leaguer. Look at his numbers -- this year is no different. An average Major Leaguer at arbitration price on a team with 100 losses is nothing to shake a stick at. You guys are crazy.

You guys do realize Pence just had a great season, don't you?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 08:20 AM) If Sizemore gets anything more than a minor league contract, his agent will have succeeded greatly. Trumbo is a free swinging, low OBP right handed slugger. He has the kind of potential to hit 40+ homers, but he could just as easily turn into Mark Reynolds too. Santiago, on the other hand, has put up good numbers 2 years in a row, including very good numbers this year. If the Angels declined that trade, then you walk away because you aren't dealing with a sane organization. Hector just put up a 1.5 WAR season, Trumbo just put up a 2.5 WAR season.

I hate this season. This f***ing team has done nothing but make my day worse all summer. I can't even relax and drink a beer and watch our f***ing ace throw a half decent game. Thank god these bums are almost done.

Dude, Garcia f***ing sucks at defense.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Sep 27, 2013 -> 10:04 AM) Time to hang it up Paulie. It's been a good run. Yeah, I'm sure greg will come up with a derogatory name (a la draftnik) for those of us that want Paulie to retire, but the fact is we all love him, we just don't want him to become a zombie. It's been a good run, Paulie -- you're rich, you're a local legend, you got a ring. We'll build you a statue. I'll try to show up Sunday to see you rid eoff into the sunset.

Sickels has always leaned more heavily on statistical success in the minors than most of the 'pop scouts.' Hard to ignore Johnson/Semien though, given that they avoided embarrassing themselves at the ML level this year. We might have 2 top 100 guys next year, isn't it exciting? Lol

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 26, 2013 -> 04:16 PM) At 26 years old he needs to be ready to start in the bigs. I find it interesting he showcases at the Yankees camp. Hopefuilly I am reading too much into that Reports that Cano seeks 10 years and $305m probably pull them out of the bidding. They can't get serious about both, and there's only one DH slot for Teixeira and ARod to share.

Merry Clinchmas!

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 26, 2013 -> 01:28 PM) Carlos Quentin Alejandro De Aza Jayson Nix Esteban Loaiza (if he counts) D.J. Carrasco J.J. Putz Cliff Politte Shingo Shingo!

QUOTE (BigEdWalsh @ Sep 26, 2013 -> 02:36 PM) BAD to be sure but all the same a guy who in two and a half months time hits .300 is doing SOMETHING right, therefore not deserving of an F. He had an absolutely horrendous start and I think his overall stats which you quoted are a wee bit clouded. Still, I agree he was bad. At the seasons start I hoped for a B or C type season from him not a D or an F. QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 26, 2013 -> 02:37 PM) I think he deserves SOME credit for his June and August numbers. June- .317/.388/.400 August- .316/.359/.474 Even if you wanna throw out his September (.307/.350/.417) due to only having 36 Abs. The fact that he's played mostly 1B/3B/DH does put a damper on those numbers(namely the slugging%) but overall I'm fine giving him the D grade..Though I won't really argue with anyone giving him an F. I see your point(s). On a related note, it's almost hard to believe how bad he had to be the rest of the year to have had 2-3 solid months in there and still to end up with his season line how it was.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 26, 2013 -> 02:32 PM) There are definitely rotations I'd take above the Sox - off hand, Texas, Oakland, and Detroit come to mind, with Boston and Tampa right around there - but it's a good foundation. I think Danks can be a 4.00 ERA guy again, but it's been a while since he threw this many innings. I agree with you on all that. I think Dick Allen is making a strong contrary case because we (all of us) have had to hang our hats on the quality of the rotation as the bright spot long enough that we are perhaps overrating it a bit.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 26, 2013 -> 02:23 PM) I will let you believe that a rotation featuring Chris Sale, Hector Santiago, Jose Quintana, John Danks, and Erik Johnson is average. This is a petty argument. It's above average, but let's be honest, it's not THAT far above average. Sale is elite, QUintana is very good, Santiago is solid, Johnson will probably be solid, and Danks is a disaster that may never recover. A lot of what makes the rotation valuable is the upside of Johnson and Santiago, which is real, but who knows when it will show up. Danks is far from a sure thing at this point.