Eminor3rd

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 12, 2013 -> 01:50 PM) The White Sox aren't even in the discussion? huh? Considering we just found out this morning that he's currently in Haiti, and may not be able to establish residency/free agency for months, I'd imagine this is all preliminary. I wouldn't worry too much at this stage

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Aug 12, 2013 -> 01:36 PM) If it takes a deal similar or slightly better than Puig's to get him, sign me up. He'll likely cost 50-100% more, sounds like.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 12, 2013 -> 12:07 PM) For those with knowledge of Cuban League baseball (or followed the defectors closer than I) - is it common for those top players to have featured the type of OBP that Abreu has? Should that signal he's more of a patient hitter than we are used to from Cuba, or is that line pretty typical for a top hitter in Cuba? I was wondering the same thing. Wish we could see Pitch F/X data to determine. However, I was listening to a podcast a week or so ago where someone asked Jason Parks why Latino-imported pitchers seem to always be relievers, and he said that they all tend to be very wild, hard throwers with noisy mechanics. Whether it had to do with player development philosophy or the fact that showcases tend to favor the loudest tools, he could not say. So that makes me wonder if the Cuban league just has a ton of high-walk pitchers, which might explain the high isolated patience for the top hitters. That said, even if the control is worse overall, the willingness to take those horrible pitches is still nice. I mean, Viciedo certainly never had it, for example.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 11:28 PM) The stat nerds (I say it lovingly) will get on me for this I'm sure, but Jake Peavy has been eminently hittable in many many games, including tonight's. Mark Buehrle in his Sox prime was so so so much better than Jake Peavy! I'm not a Peavy hater. I loved his bulldogishness (the times he refuses to come out of games, et.all) but Jake is not a maestro. Guys have good nights and bad nights. Also, this is not prime Jake Peavy.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Aug 12, 2013 -> 11:43 AM) Puig's 7-year, $42 million deal is looking like a bargain. If we could get something similar for Abreu would make sense, especially a guy in his prime. Cubans are sort of becoming the next market efficiency. Abreu is so much more of a known quantity than Puig though, so he comes with less uncertainty. Puig was basically just a rumor when the bidding started on him. This guy is older and has been on an international stage for years. He'll definitely cost more.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Aug 12, 2013 -> 11:29 AM) I'd hate to see anyone block Andy Wilkins at this point, so a big no to this signing. lol

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 12, 2013 -> 10:44 AM) Which is kind of funny considering this board's sentiment towards getting rid of both. Well, I think he means the fact that organization has been successful in acclimating Cuban defectors into the league before. It implies that the White Sox are aware of the challenges facing defectors and that they've been willing and able to support them.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 12, 2013 -> 09:53 AM) Right, however, we have been "in" on the talks for all of these. Going back even to when we offered fukodome more than the cubs. And last year going in for Soler. Indeed. Reasons to be hopeful.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 12, 2013 -> 09:47 AM) And on top of it, if you start to look at teams who will spend money, most have their 1Bs that they are committed to. Boston looks like the best fit, since Napoli has been pretty pedestrian after May. But yeah, this is one where the Cubs/Dodgers won't be in a position to blow everyone away this time because of their incumbents.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 12, 2013 -> 09:45 AM) TBH, I'm not so sure that's true. Well, I'm not either. I just know we don't have any of them. Ramirez/Viciedo got peanuts compared to what this guy is going to get. I'm just tempering my expectations, I guess.

This makes almost too much sense on paper, given the Sox clear need for offense, a first baseman, players that will be able to contribute for the next 5 years, and something to get the payroll over $50m. That said, there's no precedent for them going after a guy like this, so I wouldn't be surprised if we don't even have a chance on him. I hope we do though. Something like 6/60 would be the richest deal to one of these guys by far, and even if he was a AAAA hitter, the $10m per year wouldn't kill you. This is a good fit, methinks.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 12, 2013 -> 08:09 AM) Wasn't Jose Abreu the guy who was supposed to make Puig look like crap? Cuba was supposed to have one legendary ballplayer left and I think that was his name. What are the rules here, how would we have to do this? Does he fall under the international signing caps? Do we basically get "him and no other international signings for 2 years" if we offer him big money? He's older than 23, so there would be no restrictions. This is the guy that has all of the Cuban homerun records and stuff. Got a lot of press when Cespedes defected because every time someone wanted to make a claim about Cespedes' monster numbers, it was alwways "and he has the most xxxxxxx of any player in Cuba (except Abreu)!!!"

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 11, 2013 -> 07:41 PM) They'll be competitive quicker by not signing these guys next year. This^ is the major point. The team is bad, and we have no choice but to eat it for a while to rebuild a core. Fortunately, it doesn't look like it's going to take more than a season or two, but if we refuse to suck it up, we're just going to be middling pretenders in the mean time and push the real window out even further.

The payroll is interesting, because it would be hard to believe that the FO would run out there without bringing it up to at least $70m or so, even though no one expects us to compete. Makes you wonder if the will go for someone like McCann if they feel like he can take some ABs at 1B/DH as he gets older and no impact bat in the system that projects at 1B in the near future. Then again: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/08/jose...-from-cuba.html

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 10:20 PM) This is the most ridiculous move you can make anymore. Why is Axelrod brought in in these situations let alone still with this team Because we're like 30-80

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 05:35 PM) What channel is this on? Oh, nevermind. Doesn't start until 7

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 05:36 PM) That said, there's NO REASON to think we can't get similar contributions from Quintana or Santiago or Johnson or even Rienzo at a fraction of the cost of the Peavy contract. Agreed? Jake Peavy was pitching well this year, but not QUITE as well as 2012 in the first half and then you have the injury situation flaring up (yet again). The area where we have to agree for the moment is replacing another outfielder (if Viciedo does move, which is far from certain at this point). Still, you can easily argue that Garcia can equal Rios (eventually, or even in the short-term), right? It's the same arguments we made about Flowers vs. AJ in the offseason, Keppinger vs. 600 OPS from that position in 2012, etc. Danks can be replaced, but we can't trade him. Reed/Jones replaced Santos. We need to replace Thornton and Crain, of course. It all comes down to Alexei Ramirez again...and whether L. Garcia or Semien can hold down the position. You can still argue "competitiveness" in 2014 with the 1B situation repaired, the bullpen and the catching position. No, I don't think can argue competitiveness. IF we can replace that production, we're replacing the production that led to the second or third worst team in the Majors. If you give up current value for a chance at the same value, usually you were in a bad financial situation. If these guys were pending free agents, then you take the best deal possible. But they weren't.

What channel is this on?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 05:13 PM) But there really were no trades of significance except for ours for the most part, so that effectively negates this year from the sample No definitely -- like I said, maybe the game changed this year. It's just frustrating to see because he gave up a ton of ML talent on reasonable contracts for much less talent in return, and a bunch of money that doesn't look like it can be spent under this CBA. That's all I'm saying.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 04:58 PM) But there is legitimately no obvious way that they were going to translate "Spending more money" into additional talent beyond the returns they got. There's a reason why literally zero teams did what you're insisting the Sox should have done - pick up more money for one of these guys to get a top flight prospect added...because no teams are doing that. They haven't done it this year, but they've done it in the past. Maybe teams decided to stop being willing to take money for prospects starting this year, but reports of the Pirates being frustrated with the Sox not being willing to part with any cash seem to suggest otherwise. Again, Beltran trade, Wandy trade, Dempster trade -- there are precedents for this every year except (admittedly) this year.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 04:48 PM) You should have kept reading. The plan should be to have a plan. I'm not sure what Hahn's is. But he's clearing money when there's a very weak FA class, which was alluded to in Jim's article you keep linking to. There are caps on the draft and international signings. There simply is nowhere to spend all this money in the immediate term. Accepting that, and looking at our available resources, it becomes clear that we do not have the talent in-house, nor the supply in the open market to drastically improve anytime soon. If you accept that, then what we should do is what the team across town is doing - converting current resources to future resources. The goal is build an organization that can challenge for championships consistently. This -- we went into the deadline with the best arm and best bat available, in a situation where there were more buyers and fewer sellers than ever before, and we very clearly prioritized salary relief over all else, despite the fact that both Rios and Peavy were controllable and thus trade-able over the winter and next year, and despite the fact that we already had almost no long-term financial commitments and are a large market team capable of sustaining payrolls of $90-100m. At this point it's just very unclear where that money is going to go, as there are extremely strict caps on spending it on amateur talent and the fact that we're trading our best players means it makes little sense to spend big in free agency. Financial flexibility is a great thing, but our organization needs nothing more than it needs young talent, and that financial flexibility can'y buy us much young talent under this CBA.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 04:39 PM) And in 6-7 years we can see what they actually get out of those guys. We might well get more out of Zapata (viva!) than they get out of any of them. Right but that's how you build a player development system that will provide sustainable success. You spend money flooding it with talent at all levels. If you're not spending those dollars on the MLB roster, that's the best place to put them.

QUOTE (Wedge @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 04:25 PM) Unless I'm mistaken, Bryant, Baez, Almora, and Soler were draft picks? In the "trade a starting pitcher for prospects sweepstakes of 2013" I like Garcia over Olt. I'll grant you Alcantara as an international signing. Not seeing where the Cubs spending willy nilly in trades is making a difference. They apparently didn't get the memo about the international signing cap this year, blowing away the cap even after making trades to acquire as much cap space as possible. The penalty for doing so is substantial taxes on the the signings. They got a ton of talent, though -- most of the consensus top players IIRC.

QUOTE (Wedge @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 04:25 PM) Unless I'm mistaken, Bryant, Baez, Almora, and Soler were draft picks? In the "trade a starting pitcher for prospects sweepstakes of 2013" I like Garcia over Olt. I'll grant you Alcantara as an international signing. Not seeing where the Cubs spending willy nilly in trades is making a difference. No, Soler was a substantial international signing.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 04:05 PM) What happened already? Why is Miguel Gonzalez already a bad deal? Well, the latest news is that the deal is going to be null because he has elbow problems.