Eminor3rd

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 14, 2013 -> 02:09 PM) Not insanity, just doing stuff that Frank Thomas did years ago. Exactly. Insanity Interesting comparison actually. As of today (110 games), his season looks a LOT lot Frank's 1994 (113 games), which was by far Frank's best season. Cabrera is just a touch better today, 209 vs. 205 wRC+

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 14, 2013 -> 02:04 PM) Konerko not in the line up today... Does it mean anything? Robin said just a day off, but... I highly doubt it. After seeing what Rios brought, I can't imagine Konerko would bring anything except the relief of the $3m he's still owed, and it really just doesn't make sense to dump him for that at this point.

QUOTE (KG#1 @ Aug 14, 2013 -> 01:59 PM) I hate how much I love Miguel Cabrera. That dude is amazing at hitting a baseball. 209 wRC+. Literally more than double as productive as a league average hitter. Insanity.

QUOTE (Noonskadoodle @ Aug 14, 2013 -> 01:57 PM) Or dont walk him..... 3-3 Plink

I'm glad we've come up with Avi Garcia. Saying Avisail all the time was never gonna work.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 14, 2013 -> 11:50 AM) I'd rather choose death than select anyone on that second list as "exciting". You can make an argument that DEATH should have made the second list before both Jared Mitchell and Keenyn Walker, at least.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 14, 2013 -> 10:36 AM) I threw that in there just for you while ignoring the other details how the Sox ended up with the bases loaded.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 14, 2013 -> 10:22 AM) Oh, I know...and as you probably also know by now, I am one of Dunn's bigger supporters here. I'm merely pointing out that what seems like a simple decision on paper doesn't always work out like everyone thought it would. Look at it this way...Dunn had about as consistent of a career as one can produce in the mlb for a prodigious run producer. There was a lot more there to go off of than Abreu. And we all know what's happened. Just pointing out some of the risk in the path that everyone seems to be advocating. Well said. Risk indeed.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 13, 2013 -> 10:56 PM) Isn't this pretty much the same reason we signed Dunn? Yes, but that idea was good on paper. It wasn't like the plan was to spend a lot of money to sign a guy whose career would instantly implode.

I loved that walk from Garcia more than I loved the triple. The situation called for a baserunner above all else and he took four close but definitely out of the zone pitches. Very good night for him.

I think it's Sale by a lot.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 13, 2013 -> 03:15 PM) Everyone above him has played at least 5 seasons more than him. He can make a mockery of the records. Jackson 2597 k 11,418 plate appearances Thome 2548 k 10,313 plate appearances Sosa 2306 k 9,896 plate appearances Dunn 2159 k 7,668 plate appearances Those guys are still all from an era where K rate was substantially lower.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 13, 2013 -> 03:05 PM) Exactly. There is a shift for every hitter. It's just not as extreme, except for Ted Williams. Check out his numbers. Dunn is only 438 ks away from being the all time leader. In an era where strikeouts are, overwhelmingly, at an all-time high across both leagues.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Aug 13, 2013 -> 03:00 PM) Oh, well I'm sure the shift has affected his AVG (and thus his OBP and SLG), but at this point in his career, his HOF ticket is more or less his home run total. I would argue that his HOF tickets was ALWAYS more or less his homerun total.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 13, 2013 -> 02:54 PM) Soler's name hasn't been mentioned recently in this discussion... How much better is this guy compared to him? 1) Soler was viewed as at least 2 but possibly 3 years away (versus those who felt Viciedo and Cespedes were within a year of the majors at the time/s they signed) 2) Soler was viewed as having HUGE power...40+ homers, etc. 3) Soler was never perceived as anything but a corner OFer/DH (possibly 1B, but not with Rizzo entrenched there) I think it's hard to compare them -- Soler is 21

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 13, 2013 -> 02:21 PM) A lot of the things I say on here come true. But only Dick Allen has pointed that out on occasion for me. As far as Dunn and Rios. Yes they are my whipping boys for this pathetic baseball team. And yes, Paulie's dropoff has hurt the team just as much. I guess I give Paulie more wiggle room because he had 4-5 really good years in a row. Dunn pretty much was the worst player in the history of mankind for a long long time in Sox uniform. What's the lowest he got that one year, .145, .150? You seem to think that our players can simply will themselves to good numbers.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 13, 2013 -> 01:54 PM) I guess the Sox didn't get it either since they traded him away. They rather save the money and upgrade the minors and hope L. Garcia can develop in an area of need by the time Alexei's numbers go down furthur. That's all there is to get. Spending an extra $20M isn't money well spent on a rebuilding team, it's that simple. So I guess we both don't understand the others point. That extra $20M might come in handy for Abreu or others like him who pop up. I think that if they hadn't already cleared so much salary, it might be mroe valuable to get Dunn's off the books. However, since they are already way down -- the could afford giving $20m a year to a guy like Abreu if they wanted, not saying they should -- they might as well hold Dunn and wait for an opportunity to move him at higher value.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 13, 2013 -> 01:44 PM) You simply can't compare Cespedes to Abreu. When Cesepedes was a FA, you could spend an unlimited amount on amateur players with no ramifications. You simply cannot do that anymore, so the market and money will be skewed towards international unrestricted free agents. Under the old rules, Abreu would probably get closer to the $42 mill or so Puig got. Now he's probably going to get $50-60 mill. This is an important point, too.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 13, 2013 -> 12:22 PM) Everyone's saying Trout has a huge advantage over Puig because he's a natural CFer....well, Cespedes in CF and LF giving you production (and this year has been a down one compared to expectations, just like with Viciedo) is a lot more important than a 1B with only two tools. I don't see the argument that he's worth 50-75-100% more than Cespedes, honestly. It won't matter -- the only reason Cespedes and Puig made as little as they did was because there were legitimate concerns over how quickly they could be effective in the major leagues. Consensus at one point was that Cespedes would need up to a year in AA/AAA. Puig was considered a prospect, not a major leaguer. The fact that these guys have been able to contribute immediately makes Abreu -- the best bat of the three, if not the best overall player -- look like a MUCH safer bet than either of the other two were at the time. Teams will be bidding on Abreu as a potential impact free agent, not as a raw talent in need of player development.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 13, 2013 -> 12:51 PM) Which one of them will play 2b? Teixeira

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 13, 2013 -> 10:03 AM) A lot of speculation that the Dodgers might really emerge as the favorites to sign Cano, too. Lol, their payroll is going to be like $300m

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 13, 2013 -> 09:40 AM) I'd bet Arod. Ahhh yes, you are correct: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensa...w-york-yankees/

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 13, 2013 -> 08:05 AM) $25 mill in 2014 $21 mill in 2015 $20 mill in 2016 $20 mill in 2017 Hamilton? What's crazy is that isn't even as bad as Ryan Howard: $20m in 2013 $25m in 2014 $25m in 2015 $25m in 2016 $25m option in 2017 ($10m buyout)

QUOTE (Jake @ Aug 13, 2013 -> 08:30 AM) Cespedes can get you wins on the basepaths and on defense, something this guy won't do. He has one tool - his bat - and it has to pan out or he's completely useless. Cespedes can have a down year at the plate (96 wRC+ this year) but still become a 2 WAR player (1.6 WAR so far, on track for 2.3/2.4 per Steamer/ZiPs) You're right, but Cespedes doesn't have anything like a 70 hit tool. Certainly, those scouting grades may not hold up when everyone gets a good look at him, but if he's really a 70 hit/70 power guy, he will have no problem touching 2 WAR even on bad years. If that guy is 26, you give him $10m per year without thinking about it -- especially nothing in the system to hold down first base. And especially when your offense is embarrassingly bad.

1) The Dunn comparisons don't really work, IMO. If scouts are dropping a 70 grade on the hit tool, he's a completely different player. Also, he's 26, not 31. 2) Unspectacular or not, Cespedes is TOTALLY worth 4/36. We're not talking about $20m per year here. I think some people are overestimating what $8-10m can really buy you in free agency. Abreu would only need to be a 2 WAR player to earn $10m per year.