Eminor3rd

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 05:09 PM) They weren't all BA number ones. Hamilton was. The rest weren't. I'll even give Hamilton a pass. Let's just imagine that the Sox traded for the #1 prospect in baseball and that was the year Wieters was #1. They got a solid starting catcher putting up similar OPS to AJ. Is that a good deal? Yeah sure there'd be some additional parts, but is that a good deal for the Sox? He's a solid player but he's not putting up 1.000+ OPS numbers. Weiters is a high end defender though. Last two years he's been a 3.5-4.5 WAR guy. That's about what Alex Rios has done. (Not agreeing or disagreeing with you, just suggesting a better way to look at his value than just OPS)

From Jim Bowden at ESPN. This is speculation, not rumor: http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/the-gms-office/post?id=7103

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 03:48 PM) http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/chicago...vailable-071013 More at link This only makes sense if: 1) The Sox want to do a long-term rebuild like the Cubs or Astros, and it is the precursor to dumping off literally everyone else worth anything 2) You get multiple ML ready position players and then decide to keep Peavy and Rios and compete next year

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 01:59 PM) They may not get a very good deal then. This is disappointing in my opinion. It also says that they are going to be trying to compete pretty close to immediately. If the best package offered is based around guys from A ball that project as better players than the near ready players you are asking for, I hope they will accept the better deal rather than getting close to the majors guys. If they hope to accomplish things this way then Jerry better be ready to up the player to about $130 million next year. They need to ask for these guys. This is where the system lacks depth almost completely.

Prob just doin coke

QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 06:03 AM) Hopefully everybody had their top scouts watching Rios and Dunn swing the bat. Hahn needs to bring his A game these next 3 weeks to prove what type a GM he is. I don't think it's realistic to think that GMs will be fooled by single game performances, good or bad. Scouts are looking at skills, tools, and makeup while GMs are looking at season stats.

This was the most enjoyable game of the season so far to me.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 07:29 PM) I don't know, he's hitting worse than Dayan this year and also has less track record. He does have defense going for him, though, which explains 100% of his value last season The thing about Dayan though, is that he hit 25 homers and still managed a below average offensive season (97 wRC+). When you consider how bad he is defensively as well, he's a much worse player, even when they're both playing badly. Also, does he have less of a track record? He threw down a 3.2 WAR season last year and hit 20 bombs of their own. Dayan managed 0.3 WAR. Comparing their stat lines, they're actually very similar hitters, it's just Moustakas is left handed and an excellent defensive third baseman.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 06:38 PM) I would trade Dayan for Mike Moustakas Who wouldn't though?

Why Alexei back to the two hole? Go with the hotter Beckham or the left-handed Gillaspie

I'm not nearly as high on Santiago as most everyone else here, but I can't advocate trading him because I think we can be competitive in 2 years. I don't think it makes sense to move assets that will be cost-controlled and effective then.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 03:58 PM) Sorry but I hate absolute statements in sports and that sounded like one of them. I never said any of the last statement. All I said was trading Rios for marginal prospects which I think is probably what is being offered is pointless. I would rather keep him. As for money...we are going to be getting some relief very soon. So that really isnt an excuse. Yeah, I mean I don't want to dump him for nothing, I agree there. But I do think that there's a decent chance the Pirates would give up enough value that, combined with what can be added by reallocating his salary, it would have more 2015 value than his age 35 season will.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 03:44 PM) Assumption and no one ever said this team was a piece or two away. Of course it's an assumption, no can actually predict the future. But anytime you see an exceptional performance, whether very good or very bad, it is most likely that future performance will regress toward average. If the team isn't a piece or two away, how do you expect to add to it in the offseason such that it has the chance to win and increase attendance in 2014?

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 03:37 PM) Im not saying we are competent. I'm saying I fully expect the goal will be to get competent. Trading Rios fir a middle level prospect will shock me in that regard. So I'm arguing what we SHOULD do, and you're arguing what you think we WILL do? Sorry if I misunderstood.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 03:30 PM) They have some pitching. If they could get just some hitting, it could be a totally different story. BTW, I read the guy who was really being scouted yesterday from the White Sox was Santiago I guess I just don't see the team as a piece or two away. The pitching will regress, too. While the hitting/defense shouldn't be THIS bad, the pitching shouldn't be THIS good. We've gotten a ton out of Axelrod, for example. And you still don't have anyone that can get on base. I think Konerko retires. You've still got a lot of money tied up in Dunn that you can't re-allocate, an Rios too if we keep him. If we had $40-50m to add to payroll, I'd agree, but I guess we just don't agree on what this group is capable of. Also, I'm not talking about tearing it down completely, I'm just talking about punting 2014. All that good pitching will still be here in 2015, with the exception of Peavy (who could still be here but I'd like to trade as well). I think that Rios' return would have more 2015 value than Rios, AND you get to reallocate his salary.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 03:21 PM) There's an argument for keeping Rios. (1) we all know the return isnt exactly going to be some stellar prospect (2) he has potential to deliver all-star RF seasons, and will continue having that potential (3) the Sox have to try to win most years, and will try next year. They need to win to keep up attendance. They will likely try to win in 1 year's time, at which point Rios can still be here doing things for you to that end. Someone has to play RF and he's doing that well(well, offense and arm being the main consideration there). If he were going to deliver pure gold in a prospect haul it'd be a different story. Basically people here freak out that he will return to being awful, and cant wait to get rid of him. It's very possible to get rid of him and have that be a very bad baseball move, you know. Based on what he makes, teams wont be lining up with their best stuff (unless we want to pay). Further - just because some years his bat is a noodle, and others it's all-star level........it doesnt make him someone to dump. It still makes him, rare, in a sense. In a good way. There are teams that want that, but the money will be what stops a great deal from happening for us. I don't know that it's a given that he won't bring back a good prospect. Certainly, if he won't then we shouldn't trade him. Part of what I'm arguing is that the conditions are right for him to bring back a good prospect. Secondly, regarding attendance. There is no attendance to "keep up" because there is no winning to "keep up." No one is coming to games to see this current bad team, and so it makes no sense to expect that keeping the same set of players will somehow yield remarkably different results next year. Even with regression, can you really expect more than a 75-80 win team in the best case scenario next year? Remember how bad attendance was last year when they won 85? What they can't afford to do is continue beating this dead horse. They've got an opportunity to do a relatively quick rebuild to minimize this losing period, it makes no sense to continue throwing the same s*** at a wall and deal with the horrible attendance for years to come.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 03:16 PM) We need to keep our best offensive player to be competent for next year. I'm surprised so many here think what you posted is the plan. It would shock me given the current admin. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 03:20 PM) If 2014 is a year the Sox are trying to win, his 1.5-2.0 WAR average he has had the past several years in a White Sox uniform is probably better than anything you will get trading him. It all depends on what teams are willing to give up for him. The team is NOT competent, though. It's not even CLOSE to competent. Our winning percentage is below .400. I'm not saying that tanking is the key, but do you really think it makes sense to keep him and add 2-3 more wins to next year's team?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 03:15 PM) This is now very debatable with his big slump lately. A rebound over the next couple weeks would help, but realistically, teams need to be making these decisions now, so a rebound in August or September isn't likely to matter. They've got to rely on their scouts and the season average to evaluate his talent going forward. They know that slumps are slumps, I think. If he has better year next year, maybe his value is higher if the market conditions are better. OF is pretty thin right now, though.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 03:07 PM) I just don't see us or get the point of us trading Rios. The point is simple: his value will never be higher and the team is currently among the worst 5 in baseball. Nearly all of the big contracts for this current 34-52 team expire over the next year or two, giving the franchise a great opportunity for a fresh start in 2015 if they use the next season and a half to collect core-type, cost-controlled talent to develop or trade later. What is the point of KEEPING Rios?

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 02:57 PM) Pittsburgh has been saving up $$ for years, letting free agents walk year by year for the past 20+ seasons. Recently over the past 5 years or so they have been drafting really well and now their patience is FINALLY paying off. I'd say if there is ever time where the Pirates goes for it and spends a little cash along the way, that time is now. What a year they are having! I actually would NOT be surprised if they make a deal for Rios. He would make an excellent addition for 1.5 seasons at a relatively expensive salary, but one they can afford nonetheless. That's the key, I think -- Rios presents the perfect balance between value and affordability. Stanton would be a megadeal that presents a huge risk to the current and future of the organization. Schierholtz could be had for a song, but would the upgrade really be enough to push them over the top? Rios sits right in the middle and they could deal from organizational depth to get him, giving them both a substantial upgrade over their black hole in RF and still leaving them with a system stocked with high end talent.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 02:45 PM) They should send Ramirez and Rios to the Pirates (along with money) and get back the prospects they really want. Likelihood of that happening? 10%? Depends what you mean by "the prospects they really want." I'm sure they "really want" Jameson Taillon, for example.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 02:42 PM) Allie has been quite the story thus far. Total White Sox prospect at this point too. So long as he doesn't constitute too much of the value - as a final piece or throw-in or whatever you want to call that player in a trade - I'd love to add him to the organization. Definitely. It's just my own speculation, but the stuff I've read on his transition have seemed a little like forced enthusiasm, more like "oh wow, we thought this was going to be a disaster but it's turning out much better than expected" more than "he's a legitimately awesome hitting prospect." I agree that I wouldn't be happy if he was the centerpiece, but I think he could be a legit #2 piece. Something like Hanson, Allie, live arm, live arm would seem to be toward the high end of a reasonable get, and would look really good for both teams, I think.

It'd be nuts for the Royals to buy on a guy like Rios, but if Moore is desperate for his job, stranger things have happened, I guess.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 02:11 PM) I don't think they want to pay up for Stanton. Pirates do have the lowest RF .ops in the National League though. There system is very deep. I don't think that they want to deal their top guys. Cole, Taillon, OF Gregory Polanco, and probably not even Luis Heredia RHP. I really like SS Alen Hanson. He's a top 50 prospect in baseball. They also have Josh Bell. Bell was highly regarded and a very tough sign out of HS. With a future OF of Polanco, McCutchen, and Marte, Bell is expendable but I am not sure if they'd give him for Rios. Sox were also supposedly high on Texas Tech OF Barrett Barnes last year in the draft and Pirates have him as well. If the Sox could get Jose Tabata and Hanson I would make the trade in a second. I am just not sure how much Pittsburgh wants to deal. I agree with you. Hanson has seen his stock slip a bit, if I'm not mistaken, so he could be very attainable. It's too bad there aren't more teams involved in the bidding, because Polanco would be an incredible get that is an overpay but not so much of one that the Pirates couldn't be driven to do it if they had to. As it is, I'd think Stetson Allie might be a possibility in a Rios deal. I used to love Tabata, but I think I'm off that bandwagon -- and we have a ton of OF coming up, so a placeholder isn't all that attractive. I'd rather just give Tekotte/Danks more ABs and get a second decent prospect if it comes to that.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 01:32 PM) They have the talent to make a run at the real top guy on the market, Giancarlo Stanton, if they wanted to go for the grand slam. True, although all reports have pointed to Stanton not being moved until the offseason. You never know, of course, but it seems that will most likely be the case. Also, they could get Rios without giving up Taillon/Cole, which I think they will be very inclined to do.