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So Trayce Thompson had a good AFL, right?

I would surprised if the Yankees don't re-sign Chavez. Keppinger can definitely hit but he's horrible defensively all over the field. Johnson would be really intriguing because he's left-handed, and could conceivably platoon with Morel to get Brent some at-bats about a quarter of the time. Overall, Chavez would be the best "scrap heap" option if he can be had.

QUOTE (YASNY @ Nov 17, 2012 -> 12:19 PM) I think you just proved his point.

QUOTE (JoshPR @ Nov 17, 2012 -> 07:30 AM) I said the same thing in game threads in the past, Gavin pitched better with flowers and farmio mentioned it a lot, but I got called crazy here and all people were throwing at me was AJ's offensive season. How many times did AJ call bad sliders from Gavin when the curve was working? That's just a small sample, but all people threw at me were the damn sabermetrics bulls***. Lol, what the hell does any of that have to do with sabermetrics?

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/t...layers-of-2012/

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 15, 2012 -> 12:09 PM) http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/kansas-...-to-deal-111512 just speculation These passages are hilarious: That would be SUCH a Dayton Moore move, lol. I really feel bad for Royals fans sometimes. Yes, Lucas Harrell is the missing piece of the next Royals dynasty, lol. Sometimes I wonder how they find these reporters. It must just be hustle that lands these guys big jobs.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 16, 2012 -> 08:28 AM) My temple hurts more Lol

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/q...rewball-artist/

QUOTE (kevo880 @ Nov 15, 2012 -> 06:05 PM) Don't have time to look it up while I'm at work, but do what does his contract look like? It's really nice, like $5m next year with a $5m option or something.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Nov 14, 2012 -> 04:52 PM) If he was allowed to stick with his parents he wouldnt be spending hours in the tattoo parlor making friends with the guys there. Yeah, but people are supposed to be able to make friends without becoming drug addicts. My parents don't hang out with me and I have friends AND am not addicted to heroin. Same with Carl Crawford. Same with all non-addicted adults in America. I give the guy a ton of credit for beating his addiction, but I have absolutely no sympathy for him digging that hole in the first place. It is no one's fault but his own.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Nov 14, 2012 -> 04:44 PM) Not that anyone cares... I got the Hamilton book back from my friend who struggled with a pain pill addiction, and he says it really helped me out. I decided to read it again so I can shed some light on his addiction....Basically blame Carl Crawford and Tampas front office for not letting him continue to be a mommas boy. Through his first 2 years of pro ball his mom and dad still followed him everywhere and The Rays didn't like that. He was then alone and at the time injured. He became addicted to tattoos after seeing Carl Crawfords tats. Josh told Carl his parents wouldn't like him getting one to which Carl told him youre an adult now, so Josh went ahead and got one...then 6...then when he got hurt, he spent hours at the tattoo parlor and made friends with the guy who ran the place. These tattoo guys we're trouble and got him addicted to heroin and other hard drugs.... If they Rays allowed him to be a mommas boy he would probably be in the conversation of being the greatest of all time....now he's just a walking punchline because of his past despite being drug free for 7 years....Sad, I respect the hell outta the guy for putting the past behind him and getting back in playing shape and still living up to his potential. I've never had an official Sox jersey but if the Sox were somehow to get him I'd be the first man in line for that jersey. No, he isn't addicted to drugs because Tampa Bay didn't allow him to be a "momma's boy," he's addicted to drugs because he wasn't able to make reasonable adult decisions. Carl Crawford was right, he is an adult and can/should act like one. But he didn't, he decided to spend hours at a tattoo parlor doing heroin.

QUOTE (mataipaepae @ Nov 13, 2012 -> 07:28 PM) Holy crap it's a fan message board. The message board nazi is here to take away any fun! I just don't think discussing completely unrealistic things is fun. I have fun on this board discussing what could happen with the White Sox in the American League, not what could happen in a fictional universe where Floyd+Viciedo is worth something close to Headley and a prospect. EDIT: Also, it's a bit hypocritical to criticize the fact that I'm criticizing a post. If everyone should be allowed to post anything, then why are you upset that I'm posting something? Are you trying to take away my fun?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 13, 2012 -> 07:46 PM) So can people understand why guys like FLoyd, Rios, Dunn, and Thornton don't have much trade value right now? Guys with big dollar contracts don't bring back big returns. Marisnick and Nicolino are studs, but your overall point remains valid.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Nov 13, 2012 -> 01:37 PM) I can't imagine the Rangers would ever do that. Upton>>>>>>Rios. Plus, they just tried to get Andrelton Simmons for Olt. For some reason they seem to be in the market for a SS. I'd offer Floyd + Sanchez + cash, but I still doubt they'd take that. Olt is a helluva 3B prospect. They tried to get Simmons so they could send him to Arizona for Upton.

Holy crap, the trade proposals on this board...

This feels like the second or third time the Sox have been tied to an OF already (I could be wrong), and with RockRaines mentioning that they're considering moving Viciedo back to third, I'm starting to think that might be a good possibility.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 12, 2012 -> 04:10 PM) Alcohol is a huge problem though. It will ALWAYS lead to drugs, and he will ALWAYS be an alcoholic. If he continued to drink, he would continue to push the limits and he WOULD relapse into hard drugs again. Alcoholics don't have one drink and then call it a night...they will go and drink the night away, and then in the name of spontaneity, they will go and do something else for the hell of it, and, knowing Hamilton's history, that would include relapsing into hard drugs, which could ultimately kill him. I don't consider the relapse to be the main issue in signing him, but "only once a year" doesn't justify or excuse his actions. Once a year for Josh Hamilton is one time too many. Relevant: https://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=18883

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Nov 12, 2012 -> 04:02 PM) You're right because when looking at the deals their contracts are not even close...I was wrong, Wells was owed 86 mill, 51 mill more than what Rios is owed. So that reference is pretty extreme. Yeah, that trade was completely unjustifiable. I mean it got Reagins fired.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Nov 12, 2012 -> 03:51 PM) Ya but theirs a huge difference between the 80 Mill on Verons contract compared to just 25 on Alexs deal. Sure, but the fact that a totally insane, senseless, unprecedented deal happened doesn't give us a realistic point of comparison for other deals. I'm not saying Rios couldn't ever fetch a good player, just that the Wells deal has nothing to do with it because was a total outlier.

Yeah, at the end of the day, we just don't have enough to gain from Hamilton to blow that kind of money. If we had a black hole in RF/LF like we do at 3B, it might be different, but you can't just think of his raw production, you have to think about how much MORE it is than who he would replace. And I don't think that's nearly enough to command all of our resources this offseason.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Nov 12, 2012 -> 03:36 PM) Vernon Wells was traded for good pieces and his contract was leaps and bounds worse than Alex Rios contract. Toronto saved 80 mill in that deal, Rios only has 25 mill left on his contract. Yeah, but that's widely heralded as possibly the worst trade of all-time. It doesn't make sense to use that to set expectations.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Nov 12, 2012 -> 03:27 PM) In the scenario I'm presenting Rios, who I truly believe is a good trade chip, would be traded for a 3B. Whether it be in a round about way or straight up. So swapping Rios for Hamilton= getting a quality 3B, adding a LH bat to the Sox RH heavy lineup, and an upgrade of 100 OPS points. The problem with Rios' contract isn't that it's an albatross, it is that it is close to fair market value. The only time you get a good return for a guy is when there is surplus value in his contract, which is why teams often pick up a significant portion of these types of contracts in a trade -- to create surplus value for the team that gets him. I'm sure the Sox could get a good piece or two if they picked up, say, half of Rios' contract. But now you're talking about taking on $6m there and then paying Hamilton something like $22m on top of that. All of a sudden you're paying $28m instead of $12m and adding maybe one win. At that point, why not just re-sign Youkilis for less and spend the money saved elsewhere? You'd have to find someone willing to give up a 3B that's better than Youkilis and you'd still be spending more money -- I just can't think of anyone who will send us that kind of 3B for Rios at half price.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Nov 12, 2012 -> 02:53 PM) Any team in on Josh Hamilton would be in on Rios more than likely. Everyone seems to believe Gavin will be traded so he has to have some value, and I'm sure there are teams out there that need a LH set up guy. All they need is a 3B out of those 3 guys, i dont care is they get little to nothing else. For the next 2 years having a middle of a lineup that includes Hamilton, PK, and Dunn, makes the White sox title contenders Josh Hamilton just had a 4.4 WAR season. Alex Rios just had a 4.3 WAR season. Hamilton is better, but much more likely to spend significant time on the DL. Hamilton will cost double what Rios costs, meaning you won't be able to get a 3B. I would rather have Hamilton if everything is equal, but I don't think the upgrade is even close to enough to justify the cost of not upgrading elsewhere.

Regarding Headley's power: PetCo actually doesn't suppress righty power nearly as much as it does lefty power. It still plays down on righty power, but more like a typical pitcher's park. I think SafeCo actually killed righty power much more the last couple years. You'd expect the Cell to help out Headley's power a bit, but probably not enough to make up for the move to the tougher league. Here's the most interesting data point -- Headley's HR/FB% since his first full season in 2008: 10.7%, 7.6%, 6.4%, 4.3%, 21.4%. This is exactly what happened with Joe Mauer in his MVP season -- a massively flukey HR/FB rate with no evidence of a change in approach or environment except that he was in his age 28 season and that maybe he was finally peaking. If he had a decent, healthy year, I'd guess 20-25. It seems very unlikely he's a true talent 30+ HR guy, even in the Cell.

QUOTE (southside_hitman @ Nov 12, 2012 -> 05:32 AM) Chase Headley solves the third base dilemma and provides the Left Hand power that could be lost when Dunn gets moved. I would offer to trade Peavey back to SD and package Thornton and Beckham with him. On another front I would try to trade Dunn to some National league ball club with the goal of dumping most of his salary. Thorton must be traded on principle alone. Too many blown saves and his refusal to adjust his pitching style, And one shocker I would offer up for trade - Addison Reed. I think Nate Jones has better stuff and Reed may bring the trade value that other pitchers we have won't. Why would SD add all that payroll in what would be a lateral move? Which NL club would ever put Adam Dunn on the field every day for the next few years at this point? Why would you ever trade someone on "principle"? You think Thornton doesn't want to have more good pitches? Trading a guy because he performed poorly in a role he isn't well-suited for makes no sense. Thornton is a reliever that is effective in high leverage situations against left-handed hitters. You trade him if you decide you don't want to pay his salary for that job, not because he blew a bunch of saves. That's like saying we should trade Rios because he was bad in CF.