Eminor3rd

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 5, 2012 -> 03:48 PM) I would be stunned if it's for both of those guys. Definitely, I would bet Thornton moves too. Or someone like that.

QUOTE (Whitewashed in '05 @ Jan 5, 2012 -> 03:42 PM) I thought Drabek was good? Everyone kept talking about him when dealing with the Jays. Big-time pedigree, disappointing so far. Think Justin Smoak.

Now I'm dreaming up this huge scenario where a team is publicly owned like the Packers, but they make all the roster decisions by popular vote. Anyone in the city could vote, but in order to vote, you'd have to show up to a voting event where team officials presented their cases for what they wanted to do, so you wouldn't have a bunch of casual fans screaming to sign everyone and never trade veterans, both because they wouldn't bother to sit through the rpesentations and because if they did, they'd at least have to hear a rational argument. It would be a disaster on many levels -- strategic confidentiality, cost of operation, slow administration, to name a few -- but it was fun to think about.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 5, 2012 -> 02:18 PM) Can we all send off faxes/e-mails to all the major league GM's to let them know Gavin Floyd is currently available...to please bid on him and bump up the return by getting all the teams in baseball to "e-bay him" into a stellar prospect haul? That would be hilarious. It would evolve into this huge thing. Soon we'd be deciding who WE wanted to be available. KW would publicly protest, but at the end of the day, he'd be getting calls on guys, and deals would happen from time to time. We'd be like another branch of government; the popular vote says MOVE FLOYD FOR PROSPECTS. OFFER KENNY PROSPECTS.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 5, 2012 -> 01:45 PM) Like Ubaldo! Listen, I think he's overrated too, but the fact of the matter is that Humber is a fallen prospect, almost a soft-tosser with a curveball he has trouble locating, that everyone gave up on a long time ago, and Ubaldo is perceived as an ace talent with upper-90's heat and a nasty slider, and on an awesome below-market contract.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jan 5, 2012 -> 01:34 PM) No idea who this guy is, but: Straycats23 Hollywood Gavin Floyd close to being a Blue Jay. 36 seconds ago Favorite Retweet Reply Maybe it's someone reading this thread! This is weird, nothing at all from MLBTR yet.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 5, 2012 -> 01:26 PM) Why would you trade him otherwise? Incredibly friendly contract, put up spectacular numbers last year, just wore out towards the end, under team control for 4+ years. Humber has played well for a half a season in his career. I'm not saying you trade him, but he is nowhere remotely close to Ubaldo Jimenez in value.

lol, Humber bringing an Ubaldo-like package. Really?

QUOTE (flavum @ Jan 5, 2012 -> 11:55 AM) I'd rather gamble that productive pitchers will remain productive than trade them now and regret it by June. And win 77 games again? The problem is that we aren't a pitcher or two from winning. Why let those assets rot?

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jan 5, 2012 -> 11:49 AM) Or the guys we could possibly trade (Floyd, Crain, Thornton, etc.) suck in 2012 and have no trade value at the deadline. We have to stick to the plan. This is another reason I fear that KW will make mistakes, in order to appease the fans who think everything will turn out fine as long as one or two things work. Exactly. If we're surprisingly good, we'll add at the deadline, but we can't plan on being lucky. Fix the stuff we know is wrong, build from the foundation, get everything in a row. If we have to react to unexpected success, so be it, it's much better than reacting to likely failure.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 5, 2012 -> 11:41 AM) I'd like to see the Sox trade Dunn, Rios and Peavy this off season.. If we have to pay these guys anyway, why not trade them and eat their salary and at the same time bring in more prospects into this organzation. I think someone says this in every single thread on this site, no matter what the subject is. I'll have to check the SOXFEST one to make sure.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 5, 2012 -> 11:41 AM) Like hell Frasor 1 & 22 were. I say we won those. I like Frasor #2, but not Frasor #1. I get how nice it was to dump Teahen, but I feel like we could have done better.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jan 5, 2012 -> 11:36 AM) Is no one else already worried that we'll only get a "project" prospect and a throw-in? Yes, I'm terrified. Every single AA deal we've made has left me at least uneasy and at worst sad. I mean, KW hasn't "won" any of them. They haven't been disasters, but they've all been at least slightly in the Blue Jays favor.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jan 5, 2012 -> 11:32 AM) Couldn't some of these moves...Thornton, Crain, Floyd all happen in July just as easily and with more teams desperate to add? Call me crazy, but I think there's an outside chance the current roster can win. To me, they should give this roster a few months to play, and then if they're 6 games back in July and under-.500, trade anyone you can/want. I wonder if KW won't sign a couple scrap-heap veterans on one-year dealsin Feb to fill in the holes, like Francis or something. Seems to be a common move during these rebuilds. Makes the team not a TOTAL joke at least.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 5, 2012 -> 11:30 AM) I hope to get Kyle Drabek... lol, no way man. We don't want him.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 5, 2012 -> 10:20 AM) Actually I was wrong. Its $12.5 million. $17 million/2 is $8.5 million. +$4 million buyout is $12.5 million. But the deadline is 2/3 of the way through the season, not half.

From Sickels 2012 pre-lims:

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 5, 2012 -> 11:15 AM) Sox loved Asher during the draft scouting process. I'm not a huge fan of his, as his fastball has lost some velocity. I'd be fine with Deck, as finally we could get a GT guy to be a star after dealing with this bum from UGa at 2nd base. Yeah, I though I heard Asher had lost some stock. If we get him, I hope we don't pay what he would have commanded upon being drafted.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 5, 2012 -> 11:07 AM) Well that would give us the big name everyone has been hoping for. It was also put us into the 65-70 category for next year in all probability. Which, honestly, I'm fine with. A couple people around here have pointed out that this "rebuild" doesn't look like it needs to last more than a couple seasons because our big-money commitments will expire. I will gladly watch the kids lose 80-90 for a couple years to set this thing onto the right course.

QUOTE (striker @ Jan 5, 2012 -> 11:03 AM) @FarrellBall (1/3/2012) Source: #Jays seem to be pushing harder for Gavin Floyd over the last 48 hours.. McGuire seems to be the centerpiece to a potential trade. @FarrellBall (1/1/2012) Source: The #Jays have strong interest in SP Gavin Floyd from the #WhiteSox.. Rumblings of McGuire or Wojciechowski... So strange, I had this weird feeling yesterday about us ending up with Asher Woj.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jan 5, 2012 -> 12:07 AM) Would the Reds take on 2/3rds of Rios if it meant getting Floyd for 2 B level pitching prospects? No chance, now that they got Latos. Would be an interesting move though. You'd have to figure KW would definitely get Cespedes then.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jan 4, 2012 -> 04:36 PM) I assume you are baseing it on his injuries? That's a tough stance. I should have added that I can certainly understand the injury concern if that is your position. (not trying to put words in your mouth) It's just that injuries are part of the game and CQ sustained them with hard nosed and all out play. But see this is where sabermetric numbers help. It's great that he's kept his head high and tried hard, but respectable or not, he hits no homers when he's on the DL. This is where WAR is great -- you get to measure his contributions, injuries included, no guessing. We can project the amount of games he's likely to play, and measure his value in a counting stat. Rate stats are not accurate ways to measure the contribution of a guy who is going to miss 30 - 50 games.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jan 4, 2012 -> 04:09 PM) OK. That is a valid way to look at it. But, I am not saying he chose a worse return. I am not sure, nor can anyone say I guess, what he might have got in Feb or March, or if he shouldn't have looked at signing CQ like he did John Danks. Those were options too. Maybe they know more about these prospects then meets the eye. It must have been a salary dump #1 and return #2? Yes, salary probably had to come first. Here's how I see it: JR tells KW that he has X amount of dollars for the payroll budget. Maybe KW argues with him a bit, but they eventually setle on a number. This year, that number is undoubtedly significantly lower than last year. So, somehow, KW has to make sure he gets the payroll below that number. That affects how he views his assets. So it wasn't like, "I want to trade CQ becasue I don't like him or I don't think he's good," but instead, "I have to cut payroll somehow. Where does the team have depth? Which guys make a lot of money? Looks like CQ is gonna make $7-8m and I have a pre-arb guy that I can replace him with. Okay, I guess I need to try to move CQ for the best I can." And at that point it's just weighing cost/benefit. So yes, it's KW's fault that the team sucks and thus must cut payroll, but it's not KW's fault that he couldn't get more out of CQ in this instance, because if he didn't have to cut payroll, there's no way he wouldn't choose a better prospect and pick up half of CQ's contract.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jan 4, 2012 -> 04:00 PM) It's such a huge risk. As good as this guy is supposed to be, the Cuban Leagues aren't close to Major League Baseball. What happens if he is too raw in Spring Training? We gonna have a $10-million man in AAA. I don't mind the $10m AAV so much as the 5-7 years of it. I mean, how easily could this guy be a mirror image of Alex Rios? I bet Rios could rake the Cuban league, too. It would be one thing if the guy was a prospect, but the fact that he's so close to his prime just magnifies the risk. I wonder if this Soler kid might not be a better target. He's younger but less accomplished, right?

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jan 4, 2012 -> 03:46 PM) Glad to hear you know what my problem is I don't believe I ever suggested what Dunn and Rios were making is what CQ should make. I also believe CQ has produced at a higher level than Rios and Dunn did especially in 2011. Yes, CQ is oft injured, but he was our second best RBI man last year. All I see is how we have all these sabermetrics to go by and that means I am supposed to accept our players are worthless and should be traded for low level minor leaguers. Ok, if you say so... CQ fetched a low return because SD ate the whole contract, that's how it works. KW has to cut payroll, so he has no choice but to get total salary relief. It's stupid to assume that KW chose a crappy return over a better return. He's been shopping him for months, I have no doubt that this was about all that could be had if the Sox wanted to not pay ANY of the contract. This has NOTHING to do with sabermetrics.