Eminor3rd

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 02:30 PM) Not those moves alone, no. It'd have to be a sustained plan. And c'mon, do you really think Quentin will tear it up the rest of this year and next? The guy is erratic as hell, and there's a good chance he has a terrible year or that he breaks his wrist wiping his ass. Exactly. Paying Quentin now is paying for his peak performance while probably not getting 70% of it. It doesn't make financial sense when you have Viciedo to replace him on the cheap. Only logical move is to cash him in while he's most valuable.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 01:46 PM) None. That's why I said "creative" ways to trade. I think Jackson and Quentin for Rasmus would be idiotic. Jackson must be a headcase cause he still has good stuff (I guess Cooper can't fix this one) and Quentin is a good player. You're incorrectly evaluating Jackson and Quentin because you aren't taking their contexts into consideration. Jackson has to go, period, because we will lose him at the end of the year, and we have 5 starters already. He is a borderline type B right now, so you try to trade him for more value than a supplemental pick. To get max value, we have to trade him. Quentin is good, but very streaky and inconsistent, and will make $8m next year. We have a younger, cheaper, high-upside replacement in Viciedo in AAA. It doesn't make sense to pony up for CQ in this case. I'm not saying these are bad players, I'm saying that circumstances make it a good idea to move them for other things we need. A power-hitting, high-upside CF like Rasmus would be a great grab for us. No one wants Rios without us eating the contract, so it makes no sense to sell low on him. We can move him to RF and put Viciedo in LF next year. Viciedo/Rasmus/Rios is better and cheaper than De Aza/Rios/Quentin

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 01:19 PM) Teams that have zero use for a corner OF: 1. St. Louis Cardinals. This is true. For some reason I was thinking in terms of them ditching an OF and getting one back, but obviously CQ can't be in center and is not starting over Holliday/Berkman

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 01:20 PM) We should throw in John Danks to be safe. You wouldn't make that deal?!

QUOTE (Disco72 @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 11:35 AM) I don't really get the excitement over Bourn. His career best (this year) OPS is .746. Sure he's more of a prototypical "leadoff" hitter, but he doesn't get on base all that much, and he doesn't have much power. He's a nice player to have, but I wouldn't want the Sox giving up much for him. OPS is not the right statistic to measure a guy like Bourn. His OBP's from the last three years are 354, 341, 351, with SBs of 61, 52, 35. He also has 20+ doubles eery year, and will have 30+ this year. Those numbers, from a guy that can play above average CF, I'll take any day on this White Sox team. It's time to replace Pierre with a real table-setter, and if it means trading CQ for Viciedo, I think it's well worth it, both in terms of the performances and the finances.

Edwin Jackson AND Carlos Quentin for Rasmus

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 10:43 AM) Bourn really doesn't help us. I might be more open if he wasn't a 2013 Free Agent...he won't be extremely cheap next year as its his last arbitration year, and then he's a free agent. Well, he helps us a lot for next year, which is probably the last of our current contention window.

CQ for a couple young ML ready SPs allows us to trade Jackson for prospects this year and let MB walk (maybe for draft pick comp) at the end of the season. Pierre walks, Viciedo promoted, and then we have a few bucks to sign Pierre's replacement. Or maybe flip the Jackson prospects for Bourn or something.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 11:49 AM) It means that the Sox have the pitching staff to beat the elite teams whereas the Twins get by beating the lesser teams and really have no one to match up against the better teams in 7 game series. But why can't the staff that beats elite teams beat lesser teams too? Makes no sense.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 03:59 PM) I don't understand how anyone thinks this team, as constructed, will be anything more than a .500 ballclub. This team is performing at maybe 60% of its capability, and has been all year.

I think Phil Jackson is available.

http://sportsnews72.com/mlb/mlb-trade-rumo...atlanta-braves/

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 05:22 PM) http://mlb.mlblogs.com/2011/07/06/white-so...antas-pitchers/ Mark Bowman of mlb.com seems to think the Sox are definitely scouting Atlanta's pitching but he hints that the Braves would be more interested in Pierre than Quentin. What? God I hope it's Rios that they are interested in. LOL, Selig would veto the deal, fantasy-style.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/qa-a-j-pierzynski/

Yeah. Looks like one more chance for Dunn/Rios/Beckham to play well before rebuild time.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 06:42 AM) Except who are you going to get to replace Mark Buehrle and Jackson? Our rotation next year is going to be at least one starter short, assuming Peavy stays healthy. There's at least a 50/50 chance he isn't healthy again coming into 2012. So that's potentially 2 starters. And that Humber continues to pitch like a frontline starter instead of a journeyman/AAAA/filler pitcher. In theory, it would be Danks/Peavy/Floyd/Humber/Sale. But if MB/EJ/JP/CQ are gone, they'd have a chunk of change to sign another SP if they needed.

I'd trade CQ for Bourn in a heartbeat. Bourn is dirt cheap, CQ is about to be $10m player. Viciedo doesn't have to be CQ for this team to be good - Dunn needs to be Dunn and Rios needs to be Rios. If those guys are good, and Viciedo is 70% of CQ, and you replace Pierre with Bourn, you have a WAY better team. If Dunn/Rios/Beckham stay bad, the team isn't going to win either way. Think about 2012. Without CQ, MB, EJ, and JP, there's like $40m off the books. Jerry won't put us at $127m again, but he'll sure as hell put us at $100m. Now imagine the above scenario with $15m or so for KW to spend on FA.

This is an interesting thought. Per FanGraphs: That would be a great reason to deal CQ or Rios for pitching prospects. Talk about solving the Juan Pierre problem! You run out Pierre/Bourn/Rios or Quentin for the ROS, let Pierre walk in the offseason and replace him with Viciedo. Now we actually have a real leadoff hitter! One might also speculate that Beachy could be the one flipped to the Astros for Bourn. Pure speculation, but it makes so much sense!

QUOTE (Real @ Jul 5, 2011 -> 02:39 PM) Could anybody see Teahen getting dealt to ATL? We'd have to throw in a quality player or pick up probably 95% of Teahen's salary, we really need him off this team They took Linebrink, so...

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jul 5, 2011 -> 12:53 PM) I can understand folks wanting to make what some may think is an impact trade, but I really see the need for two trades. Lowe is a starter and we have six now. We are in a pennant race and only 3 1/2 games out and we want to trade away a solid hitter and a guy with a lot of upside and then turn around and trade a starter for "young talent." I don't see what we are really benefiting. Maybe a relief pitcher. Ok then now we have a surplus of releif pitchers. People are quick to low ball our own talent and raise the stakes on someone elses. It wasn't too long ago we heard calmoring for the trades of Paul Konerko, AJP, Beckham and others. I agree 100% that it hurts our chances this year. I think it's one of those things where you get presented with an opportunity at a time that isn't quite ideal. I highly doubt KW was shopping CQ to Atlanta, it seems more likely that Atlanta, who has a very public need for a good OF bat, inquired about CQ/Rios instead. Now KW has to decide if it's worth it to rely on Viciedo for the rest of the season in order to make a trade now that he would really love to make in the offseason, but won't likely be available then.

QUOTE (Real @ Jul 5, 2011 -> 12:32 PM) omfg... Pierre stays but Quentin goes? this is exactly the type of stupid bulls*** I'd expect of the Sox tbh If anyone, at all, wanted Pierre, I have no doubt that he'd be gone.

QUOTE (kapzk @ Jul 5, 2011 -> 11:35 AM) ya prolly not since that would take out 2 regular starters out of the Braves rotation, maybe we add in Jackson/Floyd and they add in a prospect Also leaves us with a ton of extra starters and an OF of Pierre/Lilli/Viciedo

QUOTE (kapzk @ Jul 5, 2011 -> 11:30 AM) If thats the case then I hope our pitching staff would be like this: Peavy, Buerhle, Danks, Beachy, Lowe Someway we get rid of Jackson and Floyd for prospects or offensive help I highly doubt the both Lowe and Beachy go, as much as I highly doubt that both Rios and CQ go. I think it's either a Rios/Lowe or CQ/Beachy situation, with some add-ins here or there.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jul 5, 2011 -> 11:17 AM) Trade way a 30 homer 100 RBI man who just got named to the All-Star team. Makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I think the point is that KW has seen this before. CQ can be a monster, but he's proven that he's streaky and prone to long stretches of bad. That being said, his value is currently at a premium and he's setting himself up for a big arbitration raise or contract extension. Given that Viciedo is essentially the same type of player, it makes a ton of sense to consider dumping the more expensive and still risky CQ while we can maximize the return. Now, it absolutely makes us worse right now, but it's an opportunity to be in much better shape going forward, and it's an opportunity that won't last for very long. I don't know if it's the right move, but I think it's something you have to consider.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 5, 2011 -> 09:47 AM) I went ahead and put all of the posts together in one thread. Sorry, just noticed the catch-all convo. Posted too quickly. QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 5, 2011 -> 09:35 AM) Lowe for Rios? This would be horrible. Who is going to play CF? Lillibridge? Rios is having a horrible year, but why sell him low, when we have no reasonable replacement, for an older player to add to an already crowded pitching rotation, and get no salary relief in return? Rios is better than he has been playing, no use for a bad contract swap here.