Eminor3rd

The Sox will likely need someone like this, but it stands to reason they will essentially wait until February and sign the best of whoever is left as cheaply as possible. There are a million guys that could fill that role.

Right — it seems like there is a whole class of poster who just NEEDS to be able to point the finger at SOMEONE, even if it’s wrong. Some head HAS to roll, even if it’s counterproductive. I don’t understand that feeling. I just want wins. I can’t imagine rooting for my team to fail so that firings can occur.

You can provide zero evidence to attribute any of those bullet points to ownership. This is my point. You’re upset that the team sucks (we all are) but you insist on a public scapegoat, so you just pick a figure to vilify, pretending at reasons. This is what frustrates me. It’s just untruth. I mean look at your first bullet point. You know damn well that the team is publicly rebuilding, has been following a blueprint that has led to the last two championship teams we’ve seen, and that ownership specifically was hard pressed to accept it (ie stop spending money trying to bring you a winner every year no matter how bad it got). And yet you listed “third worst record in baseball this year” as a reason that the ownership group is incompetent. Look yourself in the mirror and try to accept that logic. This team is hard to watch. I hate it too. But please, let’s be BETTER than this as fans. Let’s not make up bullshit. Let’s evaluate what’s actually in front of us.

It’s almost as if there’s more to that job than we fans can see.

The desperation with which you want a scapegoat is amazing. Just making up numbers about value, saying you wish the team was losing money, and generally assuming that you have any clue as to how JR’s ownership actually affects day-to-day baseball operations is just random meatball bullshit. The team is financially stable, staff enjoy working for the group, and theyve shown they have no problem maintaining a payroll in the top half of the league when it makes sense (or even sometimes when doesn’t make sense) to do so. The team can win. There is no reason to believe ownership is the problem.

Good job, Greg Hibbard. You "get it." Sit back, relax, and strap it down. There aren't going to be a lot of wins the next couple years, but if you know what to look for, you can have fun following these players as they do their best to become the next White Sox World Series contender.

I thought everything they said was entirely reasonable. Not necessarily going to be correct, but the argument essentially boils down to: Cease looks good but also looks like he may be maxed out/near his ceiling. So if you still look at him and say he needs to fix some things to be a successful MLB starter, there may actually not be much upside left. Hope they're wrong, but it isn't exactly damning and it's based on actual observation.

Good posts, @gusguyman. Don't have time to join the convo but wanted to support your thought process.

He didn't update the order -- and mentioned at the bottom that Basabe will be much higher when he does update it in the offseason.

It didn't work for Tilson, or many other bad players with fringe tools. It HAS worked for many good players with good tools. Ozzie Albies, for example, has a very similar toolset and body type. It won't happen to all of them, but it is a trend and therefore a factor. I, too, hope he eats more spinach.

Hit tool is a major factor in OBP, and with power more prevalent than ever and contact rarer than ever, the elite hit tool has only become more scarce. They'll be able to buy as many low-OBP, high-SLG dudes as they can fit into the lineup. If he ends up being an empty average guy like Dee Gordon, I'd agree that he'll be disappointing, but scouts are factoring that stuff into their hit grades. Another thing to keep in mind is that the homer surge of the past few seasons appears to be exclusively an MLB effect. Guys that never showed plus power are adding homers after they get to the show. Whether that's a ball thing or something else, there appears to be at least a good chance Madrigal will add 5 or so homers a year once he gets called up -- assuming nothing drastically changes with the ball/league effects in the meantime.

They didn't draft him for "gamer hype," they drafted him because scouts have been reporting a potential future 70 hit tool, which is the rarest and most valuable tool. They may ultimately end up being wrong about that, or he may ultimately bust for being deficient in other areas, but let's not pretend there wasn't good process behind the decision.

FWIW, this is not written by Sickels, though it is on Sickels' website.

Sale had MLB service though, so it's not truly a comparable.

Civil WAR: Is Nolan Gorman still a 50 FV? Any movement now or guesses on where he’ll be in the offseason write ups? 12:24 Kiley McDaniel: Only Madrigal and Mize are 55’s from that draft class, so Gorman can’t really get up there until the positional stuff is more decided, which will take time to see which direction he’s trending. A couple scouts said when Gorman was getting beat up by scouts this spring that he’s Austin Riley and he’s sure starting his pro career the same way.

If firing Ricky will sate the lynch-mob that SoxTalk has become for even a few weeks, then fine. It won't solve anything, of course, but whatever. I gotta be honest, when I was bracing myself for the pain of going through the rebuild, I didn't think SoxTalk would be harder to deal with than watching the crappy games. This place has become miserable.

Serious question: if most of these players actually become good, will you even be able to enjoy it?

At what point do we start worrying?

I think it's just so early to tell. Hell, it's entirely possible that by the time the draft rolls around, both of those guys won't even be considered in the top ten. So much changes with amateurs between drafts. They still have a whole season to play, and they're so young that there can be drastic shifts in physicality and maturity in a short amount of time. This time last year, all the 1-1 discussion were centered on Brice Turang vs Ethan Hankins, for example.

RIP Tony Sly

If we bought the team, do you think Jerry and Kenny would form a message board and criticize us for not spending enough money?

Soxtalk should band together and do a documentary on the intricacies and history of the Reinsdorf family estate. There's an unbelievable amount of detailed insider knowledge here. We could also generate revenue for the site by offering financial planning services. We'd be foolish to squander this much expertise.

Moncada and Castro are so different that this comparison is hilarious. They have like almost opposite sets of tools. All of one's strengths are the other's weaknesses. Castro = insane hit tool that plays down due to excessive aggressiveness/lack of discipline, middling power, middling speed, excellent arm but poor defensive instincts Moncada = fringey hit tool that should play up due to excellent discipline, but needs to add aggressiveness, big time power, elite speed, fringey arm but good range and instincts.

Right but this whole thread (and 80% of all others) are written by people who DON'T know it's too soon.

When this shit does or doesn't work. Nobody can tell right now.