Eminor3rd

As far as his ceiling goes, I think what we're seeing is about it. He's already a very polished hitter and should be peaking in terms of athleticism. He's been a pleasant surprise, but I expect the question is more along the lines of "how much longer can he keep doing this" than it is "how much better can he get?"

Is this a serious thread?

No, but that's not what you said. You said, "that's pretty much replacement level." Average and replacement level are very different things. Also, wRC+ isn't a stat that has a "replacement level," as it measures only offense, excluding defense and position. If you wanted to measure productivity against replacement level, you'd need to use WAR. The poster was pointing out that Moncada has 1.0 fWAR, which (at this point in the season) is a bit below average, but well above replacement level.

You should read up on this stuff man

We'll see what happens, but if he's got everything down they've asked, I imagine he'll be up. I don't think they're holding him for service time. Especially for pitchers, there's just not a good reason to do that.

Right -- a lot of people here still don't seem to understand what this team is trying to do. Yoan Moncada is a 23-year old prospect that the White Sox hope turns into a star. He is hitting at the MLB level right now because that's the hurdle that the front office believes he needs to overcome, not because the front office is trying to win a championship this year. I know it's different, guys, but take a step back and look at the big picture here.

Kopech has nothing to do with service time. He was slaying AAA at the start of the year, the front office told him he needed to refine his changeup before he would have success at the MLB level. He started working on the changeup, began struggling (as is understandable, given the circumstances), and simply hasn't been able to return to the same level of dominance with the arsenal that the FO has prescribed.

Enough strikeouts so that his batting line became really bad.

Ok, I must have seen 93 before it was updated from last night. Regardless, 94 is the average second baseman. He's roughly average for a second baseman. I don't know if that's "slicing and dicing," but it's pretty clear. Choosing two random stats out of context (K Rate + OPS) is exactly why we have stats like wRC+ in the first place -- so we DON'T have to use "your eyes." We can actually add everything up and see how much all of those stats matter, relative to each other. Also, what are we arguing? You responded to a post about him learning in AAA or the MLB. Are you saying he should be in AAA?

He IS a league average second baseman, he just doesn't have a league average batting line, which is propped up by first baseman and corner outfielders. MLB league average 2B is 94 wRC+ this year. Moncada is 93. Regarding the second line: I never said it wasn't. The conversation I was having was about whether or not Moncada needed more time in AAA. Moncada has disappointed everyone by not being a star this year, but he has NOT been overmatched. He's 23. He's working out his struggles in the Majors, where most 23 year olds are working out their struggles in AA/AAA. This is good. He's on a good track.

If what he's doing now -- 93 wRC+, which is maybe a standard deviation below a league average MLB batting line -- is "failure," then I would say it's pretty clear that he should be learning at the MLB level. The power is there, the speed is there, and the defense is passable and improving. The only thing between him and stardom is pitch selection. He needs to be working on recognizing Major League-quality pitches.

Remember earlier this season when Covey was a part of the next competitive core?

He's currently Day-to-day with an illness, IIRC.

Good lord

Well, Hahn will certainly be fired if this run doesn't work. Dombrowski got his full run with the Tigers, from foundation to maturation. The DBacks guys got canned because their moves were insane -- no one thinks Hahn's direction is off like there's was. It's actually pretty similar to Preller with the Padres, if you think about it. He comes in, states they're being aggressive, spends a bunch of money when no one on Earth thought it could possibly be enough. Lo and behold -- it wasn't, the team was a joke, and now Preller gets the chance to tear it down and do it his way. Once you give the guy the task and the vote of confidence, you gotta let him see it through. You could argue that Preller/Hahn both should have been let go before the rebuild started, but once you start you gotta let them see it through -- assuming they aren't Stewart-ing it.

Dude it's year two of a rebuild. I know it sucks to watch, but the ice ain't thin. It'll get thin very quickly in 2020 if these guys all still suck.

None of the doom-crew around here would take ANY of that as an acceptable outcome for this rebuild, nor the tenure of any administration whatsoever.

Wait, what? Tigers? Diamondbacks? Padres? Mariners? Freaking Orioles? Marlins? What on Earth are you talking about?

More intentional though, more like the new Marty34

Time will tell. Alen Hansen has hit better this season. The point is that the Braves are in a pennant race, have been getting ~100 wRC+ out of a bench OF bat, felt like they needed an upgrade, and traded that bench bat plus two pitching prospects for a bat that's hitting significantly worse. And it's not a prospect, it's a 30 year old dude who hasn't hit well for a couple years. It's a strange move in context.

Hang in there, Brad. It'll get better.

It just seems like a steep price to pay for a marginal (if any) upgrade. I wonder if it was as much about a 40-man crunch as anything else, as both pitchers have been around a while.

WAR is a counting stat, and Duvall has more playing time. It's the reason I chose a rate stat to use. Good attempt at sarcasm, but you should probably learn more about what you're talking about first.

Duvall has an 82 wRC+. Tucker has a 101 wRC+.

From a game theory perspective, the answer is yes. From a morality perspective, it's different for everyone. I would never try to acquire someone assuming I could extend him, however.